TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
My Pinguicula moctezumae is confused...
TheFury
Oh, the humanity!!
What could be causing this?
Many possibilities come to mind: 1) imbalance - fertilizer combined with too little light and/or not enough water/humidity; 2) nematodes attacking the root system, intentionally infecting the plant with bacterial/fungal rot disease to provide optimal environment to nurture their young; 3) imbalance - too much water combined with not enough light; 4) temperatures too high.
Possible remedies: 1) if light too low - increase light; 2) if moisture too high - reduce moisture; 3) if not enough light/water to balance fertilizer - increase water to flush excess fertilizer; 4) if crown rotting - try to save leaves by cutting.
Usually, if it gets this far it's possibly too late to save the plant, though sometimes leaf cuttings can be taken and propagules produced.
Possible remedies: 1) if light too low - increase light; 2) if moisture too high - reduce moisture; 3) if not enough light/water to balance fertilizer - increase water to flush excess fertilizer; 4) if crown rotting - try to save leaves by cutting.
Usually, if it gets this far it's possibly too late to save the plant, though sometimes leaf cuttings can be taken and propagules produced.
TheFury
Oh, the humanity!!
Oh no!
Since I've got my plants on such a short photoperiod right now (9 hours... trying to get my pygmies to produce gemmae) it's probably the combination of too little light and too much water as you mentioned. It's standing in water now because originally thought it was too dry!!
I suppose I'll let the plant dry out some and keep my fingers crossed!
Here's what the plant looks like at this point.
EDIT: Joseph, I just took two leaf pullings from the plant. I put them on some pure vermiculite as recommended in The Savage Garden. Hopefully if this one dies, I'll have some babies!
Since I've got my plants on such a short photoperiod right now (9 hours... trying to get my pygmies to produce gemmae) it's probably the combination of too little light and too much water as you mentioned. It's standing in water now because originally thought it was too dry!!
I suppose I'll let the plant dry out some and keep my fingers crossed!
Here's what the plant looks like at this point.
EDIT: Joseph, I just took two leaf pullings from the plant. I put them on some pure vermiculite as recommended in The Savage Garden. Hopefully if this one dies, I'll have some babies!
Last edited:
Whew, nice pic. From your pic it doesn't look as dire as it seemed by written description. Only a few leaves are wilting, those that have been overfed. If you spritz some of the extra food from the leaves, that should slow down the progress, likely reversing the over-balance of fertilizer. You have a few clumps of fertilizer on some leaves that appear to be dessicating the leaves they are on. It happens - I like to spritz those oversized clumps off the leaves as soon as they happen, to help prevent this happening.
Despite the damage, your plant will likely soon have a growth spurt from the fertilizing and grow several nice new leaves.
Despite the damage, your plant will likely soon have a growth spurt from the fertilizing and grow several nice new leaves.
TheFury
Oh, the humanity!!
What a relief!! Well, I suppose the change happened so quickly that I assumed the worst. It was literally overnight! So the plant is overfed, eh? Thanks for clearing that up. I'll give it a little spritz.
That long awaited growth spurt is exactly why I've been feeding this plant so much (too much, apparently!!). Those short leaves at the center of the rosette have been that way basically for as long as I've had the plant. You can see from the pic on my first post that it hasn't changed much at all. I hope it's right around the corner. This guy has what must be the Pinguicula equivalent of constipation.
That long awaited growth spurt is exactly why I've been feeding this plant so much (too much, apparently!!). Those short leaves at the center of the rosette have been that way basically for as long as I've had the plant. You can see from the pic on my first post that it hasn't changed much at all. I hope it's right around the corner. This guy has what must be the Pinguicula equivalent of constipation.
Last edited by a moderator:
TheFury
Oh, the humanity!!
Research it first. You would need Gypsum and possibly vermiculite.
If you can't find them, I have them here and could send you some.
---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 PM ----------
http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t32964.html
I actually think some calcium carbonate is what you want. Maybe gypsum will work? No clue!
If you can't find them, I have them here and could send you some.
---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 PM ----------
http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t32964.html
I actually think some calcium carbonate is what you want. Maybe gypsum will work? No clue!
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
If you look at one of my earlier posts in this thread (Post #8) you will see a photo showing a plastic shoebox size tray, full of this species. All of those plants are planted in a mixture of APS (Shultz Aquatic Plant Soil) and rinsed silica sand. Usually I kept this tray full of water - this is a rare moment when the tray has only a very little water in it, but the pots have not dried out. If you decide to grow yours wet, don't forget to balance the extra moisture with lots of light.
My experience is that this species does not seem to benefit from free calcium in its substrate - I tried growing some of these with various calcium-rich media ingredients added, such as gypsum, coral sand, and ground shellfish shell. All plants of this species grown with additions of these media, grew less vigorously than those without. They will grow in sphagnum peat moss, but the peat moss decomposes quickly and must be replaced often.
Pinguicula moctezumae does not appear to be a heterophyllous growth type species, only a homophyllous growth type. Though mine tolerate short periods of being almost dry, they never change their growth habit.
My epiphany:
Those Pinguicula from truly temperate climates, some are even boreal, that form Winter hybernacula, exhibit a complete and true dormancy. As I understand dormancy, it is a period of suspended growth (true dormancy = a period of virtually no growth). Perhaps the heterophyllous group of Pinguicula could be said to have a Winter period of semi-dormancy, because, even those that form bulb-like Winter growth, are still continuing to grow more of their smaller, scale-like succulent leaves. Most, if not all of these species even bloom from their supposedly "dormant" state. Yet none of the Mexican species actually cease growing, so despite several books having been written, incorrectly describing the Winter state of heterophyllous Mexican Pinguicula species as "dormancy", there is no true dormancy, only perhaps semi-dormancy.
My experience is that this species does not seem to benefit from free calcium in its substrate - I tried growing some of these with various calcium-rich media ingredients added, such as gypsum, coral sand, and ground shellfish shell. All plants of this species grown with additions of these media, grew less vigorously than those without. They will grow in sphagnum peat moss, but the peat moss decomposes quickly and must be replaced often.
Pinguicula moctezumae does not appear to be a heterophyllous growth type species, only a homophyllous growth type. Though mine tolerate short periods of being almost dry, they never change their growth habit.
My epiphany:
Those Pinguicula from truly temperate climates, some are even boreal, that form Winter hybernacula, exhibit a complete and true dormancy. As I understand dormancy, it is a period of suspended growth (true dormancy = a period of virtually no growth). Perhaps the heterophyllous group of Pinguicula could be said to have a Winter period of semi-dormancy, because, even those that form bulb-like Winter growth, are still continuing to grow more of their smaller, scale-like succulent leaves. Most, if not all of these species even bloom from their supposedly "dormant" state. Yet none of the Mexican species actually cease growing, so despite several books having been written, incorrectly describing the Winter state of heterophyllous Mexican Pinguicula species as "dormancy", there is no true dormancy, only perhaps semi-dormancy.
Last edited:
TheFury
Oh, the humanity!!
This is all great information - I'm well armed now!
In other news, CHECK IT OUT! I took two leaf pullings yesterday so the plant might be looking a bit scant... but I do believe I see the beginnings of a flower scape forming in the center of the plant!!
What do you think? The plant looks mighty gnarly but I'm certainly encouraged by this new growth.
As far as the media is concerned, it's about equal parts peat, sand, and vermiculite with a top dressing of LFS.
In other news, CHECK IT OUT! I took two leaf pullings yesterday so the plant might be looking a bit scant... but I do believe I see the beginnings of a flower scape forming in the center of the plant!!
What do you think? The plant looks mighty gnarly but I'm certainly encouraged by this new growth.
As far as the media is concerned, it's about equal parts peat, sand, and vermiculite with a top dressing of LFS.
TheFury
Oh, the humanity!!
I was JUST thinking about that! When I first got into CPs, one of my first plants was a P. moctezumae (not this one). At the time I had been reading about VFTs and how exhausting the process of flowering is for those plants. So while I certainly enjoyed the flowers on that ping (of which there were many), I began cutting the scapes off after they got an inch or so tall... just cuz. Probably unnecessary for a plant that was doing as well as it was (that is, until I killed it)... but that would probably be a good move on this poor guy as you suggest!
Yes, it certainly doesn't appear to be stuck in the same place anymore. It also looks like the new leaves and inflorescence are a deeper shade of green.
From reading and looking at the photos of Fernando Rivadavia's accounts with this species in its native habitat, the photos show what looks, to me, like gypsum formations and possibly gypsum sands (BTW, though calcium bearing - gypsum is usually neutral in reaction). The authors who published this species say that it grows in tufa, calcium carbonate. It looked like there were plants in bloom and plants growing, and plants with what appeared to be Winter rosettes, all at the same time. I might be mistaken in my various assumptions concerning this species (Fernando Rivadavia - can you help with this?), but I will certainly make future attempts to grow some in pure gypsum sand and even forms of calcium carbonate. None of mine ever showed an inclination to produce Winter rosettes. My experiences with this species took place prior to my discovering Fernando Rivadavia's report of his personal visit to the home of this species. Some of his report is here.
It was also curious to read that the substrate the plants grow on, in natural habitat was supposed to be calcium carbonate (main ingredient in chalk, tufa, marble, limestone, calcite, coral). The authors who originally published this species wrote that in the narative. I wonder how this was determined. If accurate, their natural substrate would, most certainly, be somewhat basic or alkaline. So, I wonder why the plants I tried with some coral, appear stunted?
From reading and looking at the photos of Fernando Rivadavia's accounts with this species in its native habitat, the photos show what looks, to me, like gypsum formations and possibly gypsum sands (BTW, though calcium bearing - gypsum is usually neutral in reaction). The authors who published this species say that it grows in tufa, calcium carbonate. It looked like there were plants in bloom and plants growing, and plants with what appeared to be Winter rosettes, all at the same time. I might be mistaken in my various assumptions concerning this species (Fernando Rivadavia - can you help with this?), but I will certainly make future attempts to grow some in pure gypsum sand and even forms of calcium carbonate. None of mine ever showed an inclination to produce Winter rosettes. My experiences with this species took place prior to my discovering Fernando Rivadavia's report of his personal visit to the home of this species. Some of his report is here.
It was also curious to read that the substrate the plants grow on, in natural habitat was supposed to be calcium carbonate (main ingredient in chalk, tufa, marble, limestone, calcite, coral). The authors who originally published this species wrote that in the narative. I wonder how this was determined. If accurate, their natural substrate would, most certainly, be somewhat basic or alkaline. So, I wonder why the plants I tried with some coral, appear stunted?
Last edited:
TheFury
Oh, the humanity!!
Interesting you should mention that. I believe it was in The Savage Garden that I read that Pinguicula grown in this mix of media don't grow as large but have much more robust root systems. I of course can't speak about this intelligently at all because I've never even seen coral and limestone in stores let alone grown Pinguicula in it, but perhaps that's what you're observing?
Last edited by a moderator:
flytraplady5
Hort. School dropout X 2
Limestone is available in many garden centers as: agricultural lime (ground limestone - predominantly CaCO3); dolomite lime (ancient seabed deposits - more magnesium than other limestones); marble chips for landscaping (almost pure CaCO3); found in pet stores as coral sand (mostly CaCO3), for use as substrate in saltwater aquaria. Lime is limestone CaCO3 (Calcium Carbonate) heated to high temperatures until the extra CO2 is driven off, leaving CaO (Calcium Oxide). Calcium oxide is called lime, or quicklime, when water is added to calcium oxide it forms Ca(OH)2, also called calcium hydroxide or slaked lime. Calcium hydroxide is moderately high in pH and when in solution reacts with CO2 to precipitate calcium carbonate. The natural tufa, Pinguicula moctezumae is said to inhabit is usually formed when calcium is leached by cold water from underground deposits, then reacts with carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to precipitate as soft crystiline deposits of CaCO3 (tufa).
A description of tufa can be found here.
Many other Mexican Pinguicula species grow in and around formations of gypsum, gypsum is also a calcium bearing natural mineral, calcium sulfate dihydrate(CaSO<sub>4</sub>·2H<sub>2</sub>O). Gypsum, most often has a neutral pH reaction, neither being alkaline or acid in reaction. Though, if these plants can benefit from supplemental calcium, then even crushed egg shells could quite possibly supply this need.
As flytraplady5 has said, species, such as Pinguicula esseriana have a very adverse reaction to higher pH levels, so be careful what calcium source, if any, you use in your Pinguicula media.
A description of tufa can be found here.
Many other Mexican Pinguicula species grow in and around formations of gypsum, gypsum is also a calcium bearing natural mineral, calcium sulfate dihydrate(CaSO<sub>4</sub>·2H<sub>2</sub>O). Gypsum, most often has a neutral pH reaction, neither being alkaline or acid in reaction. Though, if these plants can benefit from supplemental calcium, then even crushed egg shells could quite possibly supply this need.
As flytraplady5 has said, species, such as Pinguicula esseriana have a very adverse reaction to higher pH levels, so be careful what calcium source, if any, you use in your Pinguicula media.
Last edited:
flytraplady5
Hort. School dropout X 2
hey Joseph
since i consider you the guru of pings .so glad that you came thru with that technical explantion on t Ca+
since i consider you the guru of pings
I will never forget the amazing room full of pings that I saw when I was priviledged to meet you several years ago
A gracious host and freely sharing your knowledge of these plants
Lois
since i consider you the guru of pings .so glad that you came thru with that technical explantion on t Ca+
since i consider you the guru of pings
I will never forget the amazing room full of pings that I saw when I was priviledged to meet you several years ago
A gracious host and freely sharing your knowledge of these plants
Lois
Howdy Lois,
I moved my reply to a new thread so I wouldn't meander too far off topic in this one.
New Topic.
I moved my reply to a new thread so I wouldn't meander too far off topic in this one.
New Topic.
