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N. northiana

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  • #21
Oh how heads will roll.  Neps is a good guy. I have dealt with veteran members here, such as neps.  Guys who have a lot of large, rare, mature nepenthes.  A lot of them are pricy when asked for cuttings, but rest assured they are haunust.  Trust me, I've been around theese forums for years, although I've been "reincarnated" a number of times. Please understand that theese are rare plants, and most hobbyists are gonna be more difficult about parting with pieces of them. I would pay $75 bucks if I had a job, but alas I don't , and can't really afford it.  But the ones who can are lucky...
 
  • #22
*lol*
laugh.gif
 
  • #23
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I have no clue who this member is but I just want to give some caution when dealing with him.

I contacted him privately as per request of his original post, and asked him what he was looking for, for a cutting. He told me $75, and $5 for shipping. I reminded him that this is not a sales forum, and that it is for trades. I in return got a nasty remark that I'm wasting his time. I'm not sure if he's legitly trading, or if he's just seeking profit. Just a word of caution.

A few remarks are in order here. I am offering cuttings of
a rare plant which has grown quite well for me. My interest
in doing this is primarily to get this material into the hands
of a few new growers so that it can be enjoyed by other
people. In return, I am seeking either Nepenthes of
comparable rarity, or, for those who do not have material
to trade, cash. Moreover, there are few Nepenthes
that I want, and therefore I thought that accepting
cash would make things easier for those who really
want this material. In addition, many of those who
wrote me privately offered me cash. I did not list this
material as a cash sale simply because that is frowned
on here, and I wish to abide by the rules.

Furthermore, the quote above is from a gentleman
who has sent me a couple of rude messages. He initially
contacted me and asked me what I wanted for one of
the cuttings, without indicating what he has to trade or
any other information. I simply told him that I would accept
$75, plus postage. He then replied, telling me that I am
violating the rules of this forum by offering to accept cash.
I then stated that I have received many messages about
this offer, and that I really don't have a lot of time to
send messages back and forth about trades. He took
offense to this, and then sent me an insulting message.
At that point, I told him that I didn't want to hear from
him further, and he has now posted a message to this
forum slandering me and questioning my integrity.

Therefore, for those who care to read further, I can only say
that I am fairly well known to the majority of serious
Nepenthes growers in the US. I have traveled literally from
coast to coast, meeting many of the best growers, and know
them personally. Much of my collection has been built on these
personal relationships with other growers around the country,
and that is the primary reason why I have been able to build
it to the extent that I have. Moreover, while I certainly
don't claim the mantle of expert, I have been growing CP
for 34 years, and do have some reasonably accurate idea
of the rarity and value of the material that I offer.

In addition, to those who wish to obtain plant material from
me, if I have not replied directly to your questions, I apologize,
but I have received over 50 messages about this material. I've
tried to reply to everyone who wrote me as quickly, politely, and
directly as possible. But, if I've missed a question,
please be aware that it was not my intent to do so. Also, please
be aware that I am a professional person and have a number of
personal responsibilities which limit my time. Therefore, I simply
am not always able to reply as quickly as I would like.

Lastly, if anyone doubts my integrity, I recommend that you
ask some of the other members of this forum who have
dealt with me previously about it. I am sure
that Dustin (Nepenthes gracilis) and Tony Paroubek will
both tell you that I am honest, and both have received
plant material from me in the past.

I hope that this puts this issue to rest. If not, and if I am
slandered further, I will leave this forum for good, and will
never again offer plant material in any public way. Personally,
I am very disappointed that my efforts to share very rare
material, which I have spent years growing, have met with
such cynicism and accusations. Sadly, I am now beginning to
understand why Tony quit as moderator and why several
other knowledgeable growers no longer post here.
 
  • #24
Please don't be too distraught (I suck at spelling) neps. There are always going to be a few skeptical, rather unknowlegable newbs. We all value your presence here, and I really hope you don't let a little thing like this move you toward leaving
smile_h_32.gif
.
 
  • #25
Notice

Since there has been some confusion regarding the material
I am offering, I have decided to post a more complete
description here, where it can be read by all interested
parties.

I have a mature, female Nepenthes northiana which I
received nine years ago as a small TC plant. It is fully
grown, and has flowered three times. This is a large
species, with leaves at least a foot long. However,
it can be grown quite well indoors in a large chamber, under
fluorescent light. In fact, that is how I have been growing
it for nearly a decade.

The material I am selling will consist of three node UNROOTED
cuttings. This plant is very vigorous, and I have rooted it
before with ease; therefore, I don't consider it very difficult
to root provided that one has been successful doing so with
other species.

At this point, I think that the majority of the cuttings are
spoken for, and I will be contacting those who have expressed
an interest with further information in the next couple of days.
Thanks to all who have contacted me.
 
  • #26
I have never traded with neps.
But from what I have heard about him(and seen his plants,and other plants from him) I would easily have paid 80$ If I where in the US.
 
  • #27
$80 is a steal for a mature cutting of N. northiana. I traded with Jeff and he is true to his word...he even threw in some bonus material for me out of the kindness of his heart so he is by no means "out to get you". Further more to outsiders
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] I reminded him that this is not a sales forum, and that it is for trades.
Don't you think the moderators are aware of topics? Each forum has a moderator team. I personally see nothing wrong with this topic, if Jeff was asking for money only then there would be a problem but since he has offered he would prefer a trade, then IMHO this topic is OK. Plus there is no competition towards Phil by anymeans.

CnCreefer:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I WAS interested until I saw this...
I can't see paying $75 for an unrooted cutting that may or may not make it....

Perhaps you didn't read what I posted as an ADVISORY to potential trading partners with Jeff.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Not trying to be a pain here, but as an experienced grower, not as much as Jeff, please only anticipate on taking this plant if you KNOW you can grow it...these sound like mature cuttings and those are a rarity of N. northiana....I have a small plant that I successfully am growing and to think of a mature cutting would be godly, so please keep your mind thinking on the correct path, don't make these cuttings go to waste

No-one is forcing you to trade/buy this material so just don't worry about it. Further more I stated only experienced growers and people that are dedicated should attempt this, because it could prove a bit difficult and lead to death of the plant if a more novice grower spent $75 on it. Just remember this philosophy from Michael Catalani, one of the greatest Nepenthes growers I have ever met. "Don't spend a chunk of money on a rare Nepenthes and find out later that it died because you were inexperienced or not prepared to care for it. Start out with easier species and master the tougher, rarer ones later on."

D
 
  • #28
well if Dustin says its a steal, he's probably right, I dont have 80 dollars at this time but, if you are considering buying one I would take Dustins advice, he has grown Nepenthes species for a long time now and knows more than most of the poeple on this forum (including me) about cps
 
  • #29
Geewizz folks.. The trade only thing is simply meant to keep people from using the forums to just downright sell plants for profit.  Particularly common plants that are the crux of PFT sales.  

Neps made his many good points about offering up a mature N. northiana.  Most people simply won't have anything that would be of equal value or something that he would be even looking for.  When is the last time you have seen N. northiana cuttings several feet in diameter offered up???  I think it would be a bit unrealistic to have him just give them away for free because most people don't have something comparable to trade and this is a trade only forum.  Most people would gladly pay $15 retail for a plant only a few inches in diamter!  I would jump on his deal in a heartbeat if I had the room to house and properly grow such a plant.  And if I didn't have something to make a fair trade would gladly pay his asking fee.  Trust me he's not getting rich on mature N. northiana cuttings!  I just hope that when I do have a proper lowland space I will be able to take advantage of a future offer.

The thing to remember.. Neps is a serious hobbyist with a tremendous collection.  I am sure he would jump on a trade vs asking a few bucks if it was something that would enhance his collection further.  That is the difference between this kind of offer vs someone jumping in here to simply unload a bunch of VFT for $$$.

Tony
 
  • #30
I would like to thank those of you who have attested to
my character and practices, both publicly and privately.
It is most sincerely appreciated!!
 
  • #31
i completed a trade with Neps last week. a trade we setup actually last spring. i had zero problems with the trade. actually i was offered a cutting of this particular plant for a cutting off of one of mine. i turned it down because i am not growing lowlanders at the moment. he is a good guy, as Dustin said Jeff even surprised me with some bonus material. i wouldnt hesitate trading with Jeff again. btw i am in agreement that $80 would be a steal for a cutting of this plant. i payed $50 for the unrooted cutting of the veitchii that i have, knowing what i know now i would have payed twice that without a second thought. cuttings off of mature plants such as northiana are hard to come by, $80 shipped wouldnt be out of line i wouldnt think.
 
  • #32
neps said:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Therefore, for those who care to read further, I can only say that I am fairly well known to the majority of serious
Nepenthes growers in the US.

Not only in the US mind you!
Cursed be the Atlantic pond! If it wasn't for the tight regulations I'd gladly pay up that amount of money for a N. northiana cutting from neps.

Amori
 
  • #33
I didn't find it ironic for you Nep-growers to chime in and back up Neps. I myself wouldn't want to see a rare nep trading resource disappear if I was into growing neps as much as some of you. However note that my post wasn't an attack on Neps, and that it was made to bring to the attention of people who are reading this thread who maybe are interested in this cutting.

Secondly this forum is for trading, not sales. No it probably wouldn't hurt Phil's business because he probably doesn't have something rare like that in his collection. However this is Phil's webspace, he hosts this community and we must respect his rules. Don't tell me this isn't sales, it is. The purpose of trading is to trade something for something you want. If he comes here knowing that no one will have what he wants and insteads accepts a cash amount, that's a sale. Any plant cutting for money = sale.

Thirdly I'm sorry Neps that I do not know who you are, who you have met, where you have traveled, and what you have in your collection. Maybe you should have a growlist/want list in your signature if it is too much trouble for you to tell people privately what you are looking for. Like I said I just asked you what you were looking for, for the cutting. You just assumed I have nothing that you could want, and instead asked me for money.

For those that are interested here is the convo I had with him, quote to quote:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">
Quote (Outsiders71 @ Sep. 23 2005,8:02)
Hi there,

I was wondering what you were interested in for one of those nep cuttings?

Quote (Neps)
Money order or cash is fine. The charge is $75.00 plus
$8.00 postage. Let me know if you're still interested.

Quote (Outsiders71 @ Sep. 24 2005,2:36)
$75? There are no sales allowed in the trading forum.

Quote (neps @ Sep. 24 2005,7:45)
I told you what I had to offer, but since you did not offer any specific items to trade, I made the only response I could.
Keep in mind, I'm getting a lot of responses to this. I don't
have time to waste gossiping back and forth about whether
you have this or that. And finally, if I work out an individual
sale with someone for cash, that's my business, and it's fine.
What is disallowed is to overtly ask for cash, which I have NOT
done.

Finally, given your response, I'll tacitly assume that you are
not interested.

Quote (Outsiders71 @ Sep. 24 2005,5:59)

I'm sorry you don't have time to "waste" negotiating a CP trade on a trading forum. I will tactically withdrawl from your trade because 1) you offer something that I don't necessarily need/want 2) I can get it from someone with a better attitude.

Good luck with your trades.
[/QUOTE]
 
  • #34
Hmm well first off.. it's pretty darn rude to post private conversations publicly.

Second I think your both being pretty darn harsh to each other claiming all this attitude, which I don't see.  I do see points on both sides.  True this is a trading forum and it says no sales.  As mentioned though Neps would be quite happy to trade instead of asking for money.  The no sales rule is to prevent people from coming in here and posting lists with prices and using this space purely to make a profit.  The initial post did not ask for cash.  There was a follow up post mentioning that trades were preferred but cash would be accepted if someone really wanted one but had nothing to offer for doing a fair trade. Neps was not looking to sell these. That's why it was not a violation of the rules. Perhaps a fine line but so be it.

The person making the reply to the initial offer should also make the effort to offer a list of possible items the other party might find interesting.  Even if they don't list what they are looking for I send a small list with what I feel are fair offers.  It is much more polite to do this than ask the person to come up with a list of what they would accept.  Maybe I will hit on something that gains their interest.  If not I might try again if my first offer was not accepted.  But to ask someone to spend time compiling a list what they will accept for the trade when they have no clue what you even grow, IS a waste of time for them.  The one that knows what you grow and what is available is you, the person replying to the initial offer.

Tony

Ok that's enough modding :pPPP

be nice
 
  • #35
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tony Paroubek @ Sep. 25 2005,2:29)]Geewizz folks.. The trade only thing is simply meant to keep people from using the forums to just downright sell plants for profit.  Particularly common plants that are the crux of PFT sales.  

Neps made his many good points about offering up a mature N. northiana.  Most people simply won't have anything that would be of equal value or something that he would be even looking for.  When is the last time you have seen N. northiana cuttings several feet in diameter offered up???  I think it would be a bit unrealistic to have him just give them away for free because most people don't have something comparable to trade and this is a trade only forum.  Most people would gladly pay $15 retail for a plant only a few inches in diamter!  I would jump on his deal in a heartbeat if I had the room to house and properly grow such a plant.  And if I didn't have something to make a fair trade would gladly pay his asking fee.  Trust me he's not getting rich on mature N. northiana cuttings!  I just hope that when I do have a proper lowland space I will be able to take advantage of a future offer.

The thing to remember.. Neps is a serious hobbyist with a tremendous collection.  I am sure he would jump on a trade vs asking a few bucks if it was something that would enhance his collection further.  That is the difference between this kind of offer vs someone jumping in here to simply unload a bunch of VFT for $$$.

Tony
as tony says, there is no way he is selling100s of norianthia cuttings away, he is probably jsut selling a few for some spare money for his collection
 
  • #36
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]For those that are interested here is the convo I had with him, quote to quote:

Well, this is the kind of behavior that I simply am tired of
having to tolerate. I had hoped that this would stop, but
apparently not.

There are many fine people on this forum, and I am very
fond of you. It has been a pleasure to share
ideas and experience, as well as plant material. However,
I am fed up. I just don't have time or patience to deal
with childish BS anymore. So, I will never again
make any offers of rare plant material through this forum.
Sorry to those who are responsible, mature people, but
this headache and irritation is not worth it. I really don't
need the money, for I make plenty. The issue for me was
to share what I have grown. However, it's far easier
just to cut the vines, throw them in the trash, and be
done with it! And, if anyone thinks I'm being petty, keep in
mind that I've had to deal with a lot more of this kind
of behavior than is evident here! You don't know the full
extent of it, I assure you!

So, that's it! I will honor sales and trades for this material
with those who have contacted me previously, or in the near
future, for there are still a few cuttings unclaimed. But, I
will not again make the mistake of trying to publicly offer
rare plant material here.
 
  • #38
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tony Paroubek @ Sep. 25 2005,5:24)]Hmm well first off.. it's pretty darn rude to post private conversations publicly.
I posted a transcript of what occurred because he was claiming something else. Sorry if the truth is considered rude.
 
  • #39
[b said:
Quote[/b] (neps @ Sep. 25 2005,5:53)]
However,
I am fed up. I just don't have time or patience to deal
with childish BS anymore. So, I will never again
make any offers of rare plant material through this forum.
Sorry to those who are responsible, mature people, but
this headache and irritation is not worth it. I really don't
need the money, for I make plenty. The issue for me was
to share what I have grown. However, it's far easier
just to cut the vines, throw them in the trash, and be
done with it! And, if anyone thinks I'm being petty, keep in
mind that I've had to deal with a lot more of this kind
of behavior than is evident here! You don't know the full
extent of it, I assure you!
Who's being childish now? I just wanted people to know what kind of trading services you were offering. Sorry if you took it to heart.
 
  • #40
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ Sep. 25 2005,6:52)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tony Paroubek @ Sep. 25 2005,5:24)]Hmm well first off.. it's pretty darn rude to post private conversations publicly.
I posted a transcript of what occurred because he was claiming something else.  Sorry if the truth is considered rude.
I understand you were simply concerned and trying to alert folks, which is a fine idea.  However you have since ignored any efforts to explain how this situation is different and not breaking the rules which you seem to think.

Now on to my own situation which by now I should have known better to simply stay out of it.
Congrats.. now you have pissed me off as well.  Despite my best efforts to explain how the rules pertain to the forum.

Did I say the truth was considered rude?  READ WHAT IS WRITTEN AND <span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>DON'T</span> PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

If you had bothered to think about what I said, it should have been plainly obvious.  It is written in simple enough terms.

It is RUDE TO POST PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS.  There is no mention of truth or falsehood <span style='color:red'>WHATSOEVER</span> in that statement!!!!

Tony

ps. Neps you know you may drop me a message at any time when you have spare plants available.
 
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