Okay, I have received a few PMs on this. Some calling me out as being wrong and some asking for clarification.
As it stands, the other Mods and the Admin agree with my decision to lock this thread so it will stay locked. However, the Admin has asked that I post again to offer some clarification to those wanting it
1) CITES does not actually come into play here. Nep. edwardsiana is protected by a different set of guidelines.
Nep. edwardsiana grows on Mount Kinabalu. The entirety of Kinabalu is a protected preserve. Anything taken from Kinabalu, common, threatened or whatever, would be classified as poached material because it was taken from the protected park. There are very very rare cases where the government there will allow the rangers of Kinabalu to make a legal collection for an outside agency, but I know of exactly one time this has hapened for Neps in the last 30 years and it was not for Nep. edwardsiana. This is the same situation with Nep. rajah, there is a reason there are only 4 commercially available clones. The original plants were collected before the preserve was in place and kept at Kew gardens. Those plants were bred for seed and only 4 clones were kept. The original parent plants died after that and no new legally collected plant or seed have been introduced to the commercial sector.
2) One of the PMs to me asked (rhetorically I am guessing): but how can other people have edwardsiana if the ONLY way to get seed is if it is poached... so everyone that has an edwardsiana is commiting a "crime"?
Quite honestly, yes, the plants that those people have do indeed come from poached seed. I know because I actually know the history of that seed and how it came to be in the US. So, yes, technically everyone growing those plants is committing a crime. I have brought this matter up in many threads and no one has every really paid attention to this fact. I have even asked why we as a community condone this and why certain official organizations even widely publicized this illicit material while at the same time the community and the official organizations condemn other equally illicit acts and I have never once gotten an answer, straight or otherwise.
That same PM went on to challenge me with: since they are growing edwardsiana they are doing illegal activity... and since TF doesnt allow any illegal activity. they should all be banned then?
First and foremost, it is ridiculous for a member to dictating that Sr. Staff should ban everyone who is growing these plants. There is a reason we are Sr. Staff and we do not dance to the whims of every member. But beyond that The Admin of this site is not legally accountable for things beyond his control, like people growing plants that originate from illegal seed. However, someone using his site to perform a blatantly illegal action (i.e. the distribution of poached material) he is accountable for. That is why the Admin is not banning anyone growing this plant but why I locked the thread and why the Admin and the other Mods agree with my decision to do so.
3) The OP has not spoken with me directly but I have heard from 2 sources that he says this material is legit and legal from an overseas nursery. I have numerous opinions on this, they are as follows:
a) I only know one grower who had plants that might now be mature enough to have flowered and given seed. I do not know the origin of his plants but given how far back he goes it is possible they were collected before Kinabalu became totally closed. However, given how hardcore of a grower that person was I doubt he would just be giving them away to any Tom, Dave and Harry. He has numerous others who are much more likely to be higher on the list of "go to" people. I very much doubt they would have made it to a typical hobby growing forum member.
b) I would be willing to bet that these seed are a portion of the seed that was sold on eBay a while back. Someone got there hands on a portion and now is dividing it out further. So, yeah, it may be coming from a nursery but it is not nursery bred... Also, I have followed a few other things with that seed and I have begun to question as to whether or not that seed was even Nep. edwardsiana, illegally collected or otherwise.
c) I want to know why, if some nursery flowered not one but 2 plants of Nep. edwardsiana, it was never announced anywhere. This is the type of thing that would literally rock the CP community as a whole given just how coveted the species. You do not flower and bred the species and keep totally silent about it.
I am open to hearing an answer on any of this, I am a reasonable person. If the OP can provide the name of the nursery and his contact there so that Sr. Staff can get confirmation, how said nursery acquired their parent plants and when, provide official documentation of "captive" breeding (i.e. photos of both mature parent plants in greenhouses, etc) and provide an explanation as to why no one heard about the blessed event of blooming both sexes then I would be willing to reconsider my stance on this thread.
Until then this just comes off as way too far into the black area "grey" to be something we can allow on the forums
Also, and not totally unrelated, questions of poaching aside the original thread was in direct violation of rule #6 of the trading post:
6) Once an agreement is made, make your transaction in a timely manner. That’s NOT months down the road after you accept an offer unless you have OK’ed this with your partner. Make sure your material is ready to be shipped when you make your offer. *Do not offer material you don’t actually have ready to go!
