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Massive poaching in apalachicola nation forest
- Thread starter Mike King
- Start date
Jim Miller visited the site twice, once in Sept and again this spring. He writes:
Hi Brooks,
I cannot say "poached" for certain, but I do know that both last
September and again this May, I only saw 5 or 6 red-tube / green-lid
flavas at the site. It seems almost impossible that anyone would have
the will and stamina to dig up hundreds of plants, but what other
reason can there be? A disease that only strikes certain color forms
of flava? Certainly there are more "normal" flavas there than ever.
If it was just this May, I might think it was the dry spring we had,
but two visits?
Jim
Hi Brooks,
I cannot say "poached" for certain, but I do know that both last
September and again this May, I only saw 5 or 6 red-tube / green-lid
flavas at the site. It seems almost impossible that anyone would have
the will and stamina to dig up hundreds of plants, but what other
reason can there be? A disease that only strikes certain color forms
of flava? Certainly there are more "normal" flavas there than ever.
If it was just this May, I might think it was the dry spring we had,
but two visits?
Jim
Brooks, Jim says it could be poaching, but they have a drought problem too, and that could be it as well. I will ask Jim to go into the field again to verify whether it is drought or digging. I hope that it is the drought, and no illegal digging. If they want plants so bad, the state of Florida does issue sarracenia collecting permits to keep the law at bay, and you can get genetic material if you want/need it.
PlantAKiss
Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, Engl
If they were dug...couldn't you see that? Or has no one had a close-up opportunity to see? Seems like you could tell if that many plants were dug up or not. Wouldn't think anyone horrible enough to poach would bother to refill and pat down a hole.
I sure hope its not true. That's pretty sickening...
I sure hope its not true. That's pretty sickening...
I look forward to hearing further updates regarding the situation. It sounds like it could either be drought (hopefully) or massive poaching - hopefully someone can get a first-hand look and report back. Once someone actually visits the site I would think one or the other would be pretty clear.
It would seem poaching on this level would have been for one massive (illegal) sale because as it stands any flava of this variety will now be under heavy scrutiny.
It would seem poaching on this level would have been for one massive (illegal) sale because as it stands any flava of this variety will now be under heavy scrutiny.
Starman you need to read a little more closely.
SarraceniaObsessed's post says:
That is a conditional statment indicating that there is no confirmation.
I too am working on getting information from ABG and considering I am in ATL it is probably a bit easier for me. I will be there this weekend. I don't know who Mike has been talking to but I know most of the big names there. I will pass on what I know
SarraceniaObsessed's post says:
[b said:
That is a conditional statment indicating that there is no confirmation.
I too am working on getting information from ABG and considering I am in ATL it is probably a bit easier for me. I will be there this weekend. I don't know who Mike has been talking to but I know most of the big names there. I will pass on what I know
Hi Travis,
I got the info from Jim Miller. Action to get confirmation seems to be in hand. I find it hard to believe there were plants there in quantity in May and only a handful by September were just down to drought. Jim is very well respected and a loss like this would be extremely distressing if this was the case. I was looking for comfirmation either way by starting this thread.
I got the info from Jim Miller. Action to get confirmation seems to be in hand. I find it hard to believe there were plants there in quantity in May and only a handful by September were just down to drought. Jim is very well respected and a loss like this would be extremely distressing if this was the case. I was looking for comfirmation either way by starting this thread.
If this has happened (and that is still an 'if') then I suggest we all keep our eyes and ears open. Someone who takes that many plants is going to want to off load them as fast as possible, probably to try and make a quick buck. If anyone hears of red tube flavas going for cheap prices or of bulk sales of them then please get back to myself, SarraceniaObsessed, Mike or Barry Rice. All of us have contacts who can probably take it to the next level.
Okay, I have talked to ABG and they have an individual heading to check the site who is very familiar with the area. I will post here whatever they find and we can go from there.
I have also made this a topic on the listserv and have recieved a number of emails on it. Unfortunatly they do not clear the issue up any but they do seem to confirm the observations that something might be happening at the site. However it is a good possibility that it is strictly due to the drought in the region.
I have also made this a topic on the listserv and have recieved a number of emails on it. Unfortunatly they do not clear the issue up any but they do seem to confirm the observations that something might be happening at the site. However it is a good possibility that it is strictly due to the drought in the region.
I was just thinking on this and while I doubt anyone would be dumb enough to act this way I want to make a post here letting everyone know that while talk of wanting to do something to re-establish the population is fine ABSOLUTELY NO ONE should take it upon themselves to go to this site and attempt to harvest any remaining plants or seeds. If this site has been compromised then it should be left for organized groups with pre-existing programs to look into restoring the site and any individuals who might go and harvest material or seed with the best of intentions would only screw the situation up more.
CP listserve message
Looks like there is some bad news...
Looks like there is some bad news...
I just recieved this message from the ABG. It is from a contact they have in the area. I also recieved a message from Jim saying he might be confused about the location of the site he was looking at and that it might not be the real one we are all concerned about. Jim will be checking this weekend based on conversations with a couple other people.
As it stands the main site is still intact so again I emphasize that NO ONE should even think of going down and collecting material in the interest of saving the site. To do so would make you the poacher.
As it stands the main site is still intact so again I emphasize that NO ONE should even think of going down and collecting material in the interest of saving the site. To do so would make you the poacher.
[b said:
G
Guest
Guest
Last year was probably one of the best years to see Sarracenias in the SE US because, of adequate precipitation. Most years, including this year, many plants in the field look stressed. Some plants even return to a dormant state, only to recover when conditions are optimal. Only by visiting a site several different times per year for several years, can you begin to appreciate the remarkable adaptation of these plants.
It's nice to see concern for these plants but, it almost seems like the response to this is "over-reaction" when all the facts aren't known. A fews years ago there was mention of a couple of sites in Alabama that were "poached" of their alatas. The ICPS even had mention of this on their website. That year was an especially severe drought. I wonder if the plants simply didn't respond to the environment and return to a state of dormancy. Perhaps the very next year, the alatas magically returned when the conditions returned to normal.
I don't question that poaching occurs but, I do question the scale. I've visited many sites throughout the SE US, and have yet to find the large scale poaching that we fear. Although, I have come across many sites that are totally destroyed due to habitat destruction. I have seen this more times than I want to remember. BTW, there was mention earlier this year of the Yellow River site being sprayed with herbicide. Has this been confirmed? If so, to what extent?
I only make these comments because, this enthusiasm should be directed to the real threats these plants face. This is the first step in saving them. Perhaps someone could offer their opinion of what these threats are. I feel the threat is almost entirely from habitat destruction. Just my opinion.
imduff
It's nice to see concern for these plants but, it almost seems like the response to this is "over-reaction" when all the facts aren't known. A fews years ago there was mention of a couple of sites in Alabama that were "poached" of their alatas. The ICPS even had mention of this on their website. That year was an especially severe drought. I wonder if the plants simply didn't respond to the environment and return to a state of dormancy. Perhaps the very next year, the alatas magically returned when the conditions returned to normal.
I don't question that poaching occurs but, I do question the scale. I've visited many sites throughout the SE US, and have yet to find the large scale poaching that we fear. Although, I have come across many sites that are totally destroyed due to habitat destruction. I have seen this more times than I want to remember. BTW, there was mention earlier this year of the Yellow River site being sprayed with herbicide. Has this been confirmed? If so, to what extent?
I only make these comments because, this enthusiasm should be directed to the real threats these plants face. This is the first step in saving them. Perhaps someone could offer their opinion of what these threats are. I feel the threat is almost entirely from habitat destruction. Just my opinion.
imduff
