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Brunswick county

  • #21
kinda off topic here, but I wonder why Nebraska doesent have any Sarrs?
Why is Sarracenia Purpurea only on the east side of the Great Lakes?
why not in Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota?
could it be it just hasnt got that far yet in its travels?
(naturally I mean)
suppose humans didnt exist, would purpurea keeps moving westward?
probably..(but now, with humans here, it wont have the change to move much naturally..unless we go extinct..which I still hope for)
hmmm..this deserves a new thread!
Scot
 
  • #22
I know for a fact that S.purpurea are in MI. I can't say for sure about the other states, but I think wisc. has them too
 
  • #23
One thing is it does get substantially drier as you move west. You need a lot of water for sarras. There just isn't much bog-land east of the great lakes.

Capslock
 
  • #24
There are several Sarracenia Purpurea sites here in Minnesota.

Minnesota has more peatland area (over 6 million acres) than any other state in the U.S. except Alaska. To bad we don't have more CPs here.

I'm going to Black lake bog in a couple weeks, if I can borrow a digi cam I'll post pics.

Chris
 
  • #25
Hi people,

Let's stay on topic here.

I was wondering if the backdoors were covered yet:

- what if you don't get a reply from your lettre and it's binned ?
- what if the local policymakers or developpers don't grant you
permission to get the plants ?

Sounds pessimistic but you need to plan these things ahead while you still have the luxuary of time.

How many plants are we actually talking about, how many people would it take to uproot them, transport them and how many people have signed up for giving them a home?

And last but not least, who's gonna cover the costs ?
Costs could be gained back from actually selling the plants, but I don't know of that's 100% ethical because you'll be flooding the market and eventually punishing the people who make a legit living out of sarracenia trading. (yes, I know, the ethics of land-development, but I think discussing that is a waste of posts in this thread)

Sincerely,
Fred
 
  • #26
Frederick, the plants are not for sell. Their seed will give us exactly what we need for the NASC. Locale specimens available to one and all for the price of shipping it to you. We will give away seed and seedlings to any and all interested in having these plants from developer rescues. Placing the plants is not as difficult as you may think, and we have done it before with excellent results. As far as the people who do this, we have some in the NASC that do nothing else, and anyone who wishes to help, jump on the bus. The guidelines we follow will be from the ICPS collecting rules, as we work hand in hand with them. If not getting permission will stop you from pulling a plant from in front of an encroaching 'dozer, don't show up. I will NOT stand by and let them be purposely destroyed. We have to balance ethics with collecting, and that is a primary goal!
 
  • #27
I don't think Sarracenia placement will always be so easy. Right now there are plenty of people who'll take free plants. But will that continue as people receive their third, then their fourth, then their fifth ... nearly identical S. flava? I have no doubt demand will always be there for the striking forms, but many of us can take very few plants. And it won't always be so easy to find people willing to travel for a long day of collecting followed by packaging, mailing, etc.. Especially if the demand does dwindle and collectors find themselves with unwanted plants.

Somebody mentioned somewhere about doing teacher in-service training and that seems a great way to place plants. The drawback is that schools aren't such busy places in summer, when Sarracenias most need attention. But if a teacher was taught how to care for a small bog planting and could get it home for the summer, maybe a lot of Sarrs could be placed at schools.
 
  • #28
Lotsa possibilities there, eh? We will cross our bridges as we come to them, and make whatever adjustments that are necessary. Placements are a good idea too. Good thinking, Bruce. Bring that one up when we finally get a conference meeting with all of us talking up our plans. Dean Cook has plenty of room for excess rescues, and can definitely place them.
 
  • #29
While Dean Cook has room and can give them away like he does S. oreophilas, we'd sure appear to be collecting plants for a dealer. That's an appearance NASC has to avoid.

It seems backwards, but I think collecting too many plants at this stage in NASC's existence is worse than collecting too few. We need to get organized and establish a track record with manageable projects.

By the way, did the Crestview site distribution information get into a database?
 
  • #30
I'm not sure, but I think Bruce just made reference to "too many plants."

I'm not acquainted with this concept.
laugh.gif


Capslock
 
  • #31
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]- what if you don't get a reply from your letter and it's binned ?
- what if the local policymakers or developers don't grant you
permission to get the plants

Here's my answer the these questions.

If you don't get a reply, write another letter, call them on the phone, show up in person, do what ever it takes. I learned in a class I took one time that the best way to get a letter to somebody is to use Fed-ex. If you send a Fed-ex letter it will get their attention. They will know that you are serious and they will be serious with their response.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] what if the local policymakers or developers don't grant you
permission to get the plants
The time to start saving the sites are now, not when they are being drained and dozed. I've said this before but what you need to do is find a site that is closest to you, contact the owner, inform the owner how rare the plants are. The most important thing to do is to make friends with the owner, don't make threats or demands. Be friendly and get permission to visit this site from time to time and make sure that it stays healthy. If the owner decides to sell the property then repeat the process with the new owner. If he decides to develop it then if you have done the above steps, he'll have no problem with letting you save the plants. If the new owner wants to develop it and don't want to talk to you, write letters, make phone calls asking for permission to save some of the plants. You still need to be friendly and non-threatening. If all else fails then write another letter and say that you're going to inform the public as to what happening. If no response, write the local newspaper, radio stations and TV stations, stand in front of the property with a sign. If you have done all this and they still bring the dozers. Do whatever you feel you need to do. This is not a job, it's a sacrifice, you will never be repaid for what you've done or the money that you have spent. So sacrifice as much as you are willing to. I know how far I'm willing to go, I won't stand there saving plants while I'm getting shot at. But anything below that I'll do. I'll pay a fine for trespassing and theft. I've been to jail for way less then trespassing, I'd be proud to go to jail for saving some plants. It'll even get publicity and get my message out to the local public.

As far as finding homes for the plants, don't worry about it. If you have a bunch of plants die, because you can't find a home for it, that's ok it was going to die anyway. At least you tried. If you can't find homes for some, then send it to me I have never turned down a cp in need of a home. If you're worried about having to sell some plants to make it worth your time then don't bother trying to save them in the first place.
 
  • #32
My wife thinks she's too familiar with the concept.
 
  • #33
I don't think there will be a shortage of people to take the plants. Remember, its not just our (currently) small membership who would receive them. There are botanical gardens, concerned CP nurseries, up-and-coming newbies, CP growers who have non-internet or non-CP forum contacts who love and grow Sarracenia. The important thing is to keep them growing and especially tagged with the locale information. Sure...some plants will be lost and some will be "diluted" by cross pollination, but it will be better than nothing being done at all.
 
  • #34
I think keeping tags on the plants is most important. I think there needs to be a way to organize these things so that, should the person who holds them forget, you can trace a record back and save the plant from being turned into an ol "S. flava". Also, keeping location codes firmly on the plants would make it easier for people to find others with the same plants with which they could exchange pollen.


And if there happen to be any extra plants, I'm in!
 
  • #35
I think this is really great we are having these discusssions and ideas are being presented and discussed pro and con. I would like to add my experience with rescuing CPs. At Crestview Jim, Jay and myself we confronted with a very irrate land owner who was on the verge of calling the police on us. It seems that the local folks had indeed tried to stop the development and failed. When we calmly and POLITELY explained who we were and what we were up to he was more than happy to grant permission to in his words, "Take all you can carry. Heck, go get the college hort students and dig everyone one of them up cause I AM going to develope this property." We were able to save 140+ S. rubra gulfensis. I personally packed, addressed and shipped all of them. The cost of shipping was $3.85 a packet and the post office supplied the boxes for free. They went all over the US and two packages went to Nature Centers. I think the demand is there and when we spread the word to educational centers, Nature Centers, and Bot. gardens, tell them of our mission, (here is a project for someone to contact these institutions) we will have them clammering at out door with their hands out. There also needs to be information that accompanies these plants about how they are to be cared for in respect to the NASC mission: permanate tagging, pollination, seed distribution, etc. Two and half years ago I ran across a bog in FL. It was the first time in my life I had even seen sarracenias in the wild in a healthy bog setting. I was dumb struck and now I am obsessed. I am now good friends with the land owner and have educated her on what a treasure she has. What I found profoundly disturbing was a student from a near by college had done a two year study on the bog but never told the land owner what she had or how rare and valable it was. I think that is a crime and very short sighted on the students part. This student was studing these plants, I assume to save them and it was so simple to educate the landowner. I have written permission to collect seeds and 'cutting' from this bog and as a result she has introduced me to her brother in law up the road who has an equally impressive bog. Both land owners have pledged to care and maintain their bogs (regular burnings) and now have something they can share. They even have a friendly rivalery about who has the prettiest plants. I am refering to Leah Wilkerson and her brother in law Bud Wilkerson. A sarracenia will be name for Leah in September's issue of ICPS bulletin. She is thrilled beyond belief and is invested in protecting her bog. It has value to her now. The reason I tell you this because time and time again, I hear stories from my CP friends who come across bogs and ask the owers permission to look and are met with friendliness and generosity. It is an opportunity to educate and save these plants at the source. I think it will be rare that you are turned away or denied access. If indeed the permission is denied, make friends with the bulldozer driver and find out when the clearing will comence and return with a 12 pack of beer. You will get the plants trust me. There is lots to do and sometimes it is just as easy as asking.
 
  • #36
I don't think the idea is so much that we are trying to save and make good plants out of the ones that are collected. I think its more to be able to breed some that will then breed, preserving the local gene pool. So if some die or even most die, I don't think its a huge issue, I think its more important that a few carry on the local genes. Its more that we hate to see some get killed needlessly so we take as many as possible and place them as many places as possible.
As far as people thinking that we are collecting for dealers............people who look at it that way are not familiar with the plants or their history and ill-fated future. Reputable dealers are usually familiar with and endorse the proper collection of endangered species for survival of its kind, and therefore would not likely be spiteful (hopefully) of a worthy cause letting go of plants at dirt cheap even if they do sell the same plants we are distributing, its pretty likely theirs are gonna be alot healthier and cleaner as well as generally more suitable to sales where-as our collected plants are likely to be a bit beaten up and have pests in and on them.
Do what you must and stand up for what you believe.

Joe
 
  • #37
Well it looks like there will be alot of construction starting sooner then they thought. Hurricane Charlie left Fla and made it's second landfall in Calabash NC. Calabash is the most southern town in Brunswick. It's the last town before you get to SC. Charlie then tore thru Supply (Green Swamp) and then the rest of Brunswick county. There are alot of trees and power lines down. Also some buildings damaged. I still don't know the extent of the damage, If I hear anything I'll post it.
 
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