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More about very tiny fish tanks/containers.

scottychaos

scottychaos

I have often said on this forum that "If I were king of the world, 10 gallon aquariums and goldfish bowls would be illegal"

Things like small goldfish bowls, tiny betta containers, the hideous "betta vases" and the like, are basically animal cruelty and should be illegal..
the only reason they arent illegal is that US animal cruelty laws simply donty apply to fish..so people are free to sell ANYTHING for fish..and as long as there is money to be made, they will keep being sold, and ignorant people will keep buying them..well check this out!

"Harro Hieronimus, chair of the German Livebearer Society and the International Rainbowfish Association, was asked to create for the German Ministry of Agriculture a set of minimum requirements for the humane care of fish. His expert opinion has been translated into law in Germany. He maintains that fish must have a minimum volume of 13 gallons of water in an aquarium approximately 24 inches by 12 inches by 12 inches in size. Hieronimus states, "Keeping fish permanently in smaller tanks is cruelty against animals and [in Germany] may be prosecuted by law." "
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anything under 13 gallons is now ILLEGAL in Germany! sweet! :0o:

that prevents betta vases, goldfish bowls, and all the micro-tanks from being sold..excellent!
now we just have to get such a law passed here..

Im normally not a big fan of PETA..I think they are run by nut-jobs..
but I do agree with them on this particular issue:

http://www.peta.org/feat/aquab/


Scot
 
scottychaos said:
anything under 13 gallons is now ILLEGAL in Germany! sweet! :0o:

that prevents betta vases, goldfish bowls, and all the micro-tanks from being sold..excellent!
now we just have to get such a law passed here..
Click to expand...

That's awesome. Now they just need to pass a law that says that any yard under 1,000 square feet is illegal also.

J.C.
 
xvart said:
That's awesome. Now they just need to pass a law that says that any yard under 1,000 square feet is illegal also.

J.C.
Click to expand...

huh?
I think that was supposed to be some kind of sarcasm..but I dont get it.. ???

Scot
 
Now, I understand this with most fish, but what are people with male bettas to do in germany? They can't just keep all the males in the same tank, preform proper water changes, and its hard to filter a betta's tank because their fins catch current like a sail making them tired. I keep my betta in large kritter keeper that is bigger then a 2.5 gallon, (3-4 gallons I believe) and its prefect size for him. its not like a vase that has height and not width, so more oxygen in the water and more room to swim. So is there any thing in the law that says a lone male betta may be kept in a tank smaller then that with specific heights and widths?

Other then that I approve of the law. Germany has a lot of interesting a good laws. Did you know its illegal to kill the European hornet in Germany because they are a protected species with a fine up to 50,000 euros? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_crabro Interestingly enough, even thought the subspecies in Germany is in risk of becoming extinct, it is the same subspecies that is now invasive to the east coast of the u.s.
 
Ant said:
Now, I understand this with most fish, but what are people with male bettas to do in germany? They can't just keep all the males in the same tank, preform proper water changes, and its hard to filter a betta's tank because their fins catch current like a sail making them tired.
Click to expand...

Tank dividers..
and its easy to make gentle filtration..doesnt have to be fast moving water.
sponge filters are ideal in a case like that.

Scot
 
That's a little bit ridiculous...

All your thinking about is bettas and goldfish (which I definitely agree on), but what about the saltwater world and some of the very tiny freshwater fish?
I just set up a 3 gallon reef tank, something many people have successfully kept for years. (Yes, with a fish)

I think they should revise that law and allow exceptions for certain fish.
 
scottychaos said:
huh?
I think that was supposed to be some kind of sarcasm..but I dont get it.. ???

Scot
Click to expand...

lol. Sorry, Scot. I meant to write something in there about dogs and yards, but apparently I forgot to. I meant I wish it was a law to have a big yard, because I love yards, just like fish in big tanks.

xvart.
 
  • #10
This week I was at Hub Hobby shop where they sell indoor/garden train sets, RC cars and stuff but also modeling supplies like styrene rods and plastic sheet of various thickness, molding & casting rubber, etc. This time walking through I saw a shelf in the "science hobby" section that had not bettas and a plant in 1 liter vases but "mini-ponds". These were small 6" plastic aquarium cubes which had a sprig of some aquatic plant, two tiny white aquatic frogs and a snail! They were $19.99 each - so I bought six...

J/K I didn't even buy the styrene bits I planned on getting. I just left rather disgusted. I'm gonna shop at Hobby Town for styrene instead.
 
  • #11
LOL , swords!

but seriously, i think ten gallons is good enough for any single fish. especially if you go buy the "1 gallon per fish" rule. i like tetras and those only look really cool if you have a lot of them schooling together (like 30-40) having a 13 gallon tank for a tetra is just plain stupid. or for that matter; a 400 gallon tank for 30. and besides, are they really gonna start making 13 gallon tanks? NO! thats just ridiculous....

edit: or do they mean 13 gallon minimum for any number of fish?
 
  • #12
I think what they mean is they won't be manufacturing aquariums smaller than those dimensions, and fine you if they catch you with smaller ones. Of course nothing is stopping breeders in Germany from making their own nano line breeder tanks from hardware store glass and hiding them in a secret room or something. :D

Do people still really still say 1 fish per gallon? I only kept like 4-6 fish (2-3 pairs) in each of my 29-75 gallon tanks that were full of landscaped live plants. I liked killis so they had lots and lots of elbow room!
 
  • #13
the "1 fish per gallon" rule cant be applied to ALL fish..

One tetra in one gallon is fine..but who keeps only one tetra? no one..
One 8" long goldfish per one gallon is obviously WAY too much fish for one gallon..
for one goldfish, the rule should be "one fish per TEN gallons"..but its still just one fish..
One big adult goldfish can have the mass of 100 tetras..

So really the "1 fish per gallon" rule is basically pointless..
and should only be applied to really small fish..
10 tetras in a 10 gallon tank is reasonable..
10 goldfish in a 10 gallon tank is WAY too much fish..

its just something someone came up with decades ago and has been adopted as a "rule" by the aquarium community, and it needs to be abolished, because its misused all the time..

Going by this German "13 gallon" law, it still works great for tetras and goldfish..
13 tetras in a 13 gallon tank is fine..and people like to keep multiple tetras anyway..no one ever keeps one terat in a tank..

13 gallons for ONE goldfish is also reasonable..(still a bit too small of a tank IMO, but at least its far better than a 1-gallon goldfish bowl, which has often been the norm for one goldfish..)

so no matter what kind of fish you keep, the 13 gallon rule works fine..
no one NEEDS anything smaller, no matter what kind of fish you keep..

Scot
 
  • #14
I've been keeping fish for several years now, in a 29 gallon tank in my bedroom. I also have a Betta in a fishbowl on my nightstand. In my opinion, that law is a bit ridiculous. A 5 gallon tank for 3 tetras and a Corydora is more than sufficient. I think the issue comes when people don't take the fishes' comfort into account when stocking a fish tank, and stuff the same tank full with even as many as 3 goldfish. There are several issues that apply here.

One issue that has really got on my nerves over the years deals with the fish that pet suppliers commonly stock. In my opinion, your average joe pet store (e.g. PetSmart) need not carry fish such as the red bellied pacu. A really pretty fish at all sizes, it really can catch your eye when it's two inches long, but they forget to mention that it grows to several feet in size. Very rarely will you find someone with the correct tank to usher these fish into maturity. (If you've ever been to the zoo, you'll recognize these fish as the ones that look like HUGE piranhas in the Amazon tank.)

Long story short, you can't protect people from ignorance, but for people who have limited space, when properly kept, a 5 or 10 gallon aquarium can be properly maintained in a humane manner.
 
  • #15
I forgot to add that bettas can be kept in a community set up if you choose proper tank mates.

I think a reasonable minimum for a single betta is 5 gallons (I would say 3 for people who know what they are doing). With 13, you would either be wasting money on unnecessary space, making dividers, or going with a community set up.
It seems to me that not much thinking went into this law.
 
  • #16
I will second the "less selection for novices" at places like Petsmart. My boss had bought some Pacus for his new 55 gallon tank but I showed him the full grown "mascot" Pacus at the Aqua Land LFS by our job. They're really friendly, enormous fish and are probably quite old as the shop has been there for ages and I don't recall ever not seeing them. They keep this pair in a 1000+ gallon custom tank that runs the length of the front room, like a zoo exhibit. I doubt too many people are prepared for the long-haul with fish like these.

I remember at another LFS called World of Fish that had 6" Paddlefish (essentially a zooplankton eating FW "shark") for $24.99 each. I inquired as to the origins of the specimens and the kid told me "some rich guy in town breeds them in a swimming pool" but that smells of BS to me. I didn't buy one of course but it's preposterous that fish like that are even available to the general public without having to apply for a permit or something. There's really far more fish species being kept in aquariums than should be because so many of them get to such outrageous sizes.
 
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