Losses

[FlytrapGurl]

A couple nights ago, Grumpy(my huge bronze cory)and one of my female platies passed away from natural causes

. One of Grumpy's best buddies, Buddy, another bronze cory, is still in there somewhere in that huge 29 gallon, so I bought him another bronze cory as a buddy, since bronze cories only school with other bronze cories. I also got two other female platies. One is deep red towards the tail end of her body and orange towards the head end of her body and half her tail is black. The other one is bright, orange juice orange with half black body and half black tail and her body is black speckled. They're all so cute, which comforts me in my grieving. Also, just tonight, one of my two jumbo danios, Jailbird, in the same tank, died presumably from bloat. The other danio, which is a longfin golden danio, seems to miss him, too. But I won't risk getting another danio, because these two were the only really humble danios, which never went after the angelfishs' fins, while once I got another batch of danios, which permanently tore one of my angelfish's fins out of whack, and I got rid of those danios by bringing them back to the petshop. Yet the two jumbos never touched the angelfish, even with the aggressive ones around. ***sighs sadly*** Well, anyways, me is sad.

Rest in peace, Grumpy, No-name(platy), and Jailbird. :'(

 

[biggun110]

Hi Flytrapgurl,

Sorry to hear about your loss

. You know, if you want a zippy fish like a danio in your tank but one that is nice all the time try Scissortail Rasboras -- like 5 of them.

Bobby

 

[kayaker78]

Are you sure that the fish were lost from "natural causes"? It seems very odd that you would loose 2 fish in one night! Especially long lived fish like Corys. Did you check your water chemistry? How are your nitrates? I would also check for amonia and nitrite! And if you dont find anything there start looking at other factors

 

[Spectabilis73]

I'm so sorry to hear that flytrapgurl... your 'jumbo' danios were probably giant danios, a different species than just regular danios, and giant danios never nip fins

 

[FlytrapGurl]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kayaker78 @ June 27 2003,7:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Are you sure that the fish were lost from "natural causes"?  It seems very odd that you would loose 2 fish in one night!  Especially long lived fish like Corys.  Did you check your water chemistry?  How are your nitrates? I would also check for amonia and nitrite! And if you dont find anything there start looking at other factors[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
PH: 7.0. Ammonia: 0.0. Temperature: a constant 78* F.

And both of them were quite old. The cory was over an inch long and was slowing down a bit with age, and the platy was large and old, too.

EDIT: Thanks for all the comfort, guys.

 

[lil_flytrap_boy]

Sorry to hear that.

They're in Fishy Heaven now

 

[kayaker78]

Did you check for Nitrates? Nitrites?

 

[FlytrapGurl]

I don't have a test for those. But it can't be that, because ALL of my other fish in there are doing perfect; no sicknesses at all.

BTW, thanks for the comfort, lil_flytrap_boy

 

[Binataboy]

Hi FlyTrapGirl, sorry to hear about your loss. But I would be a little concerned. To lose 2 fish in one night is worrying especialy a Bronze cory, these fish live for YEARS I have heared of over 10, and females grow to over 2 inches (I have seen nearly 3inch females), males about 1.5-2inches.

You also lost a danio from bloat. I would think something is not quite right with your tank. Fish can be "happy" in a tank even when something is wrong. It is simply a case of survival of the fittest.

What filtration do you run on your tank, what do you feed your fish and what time of day did your fish pass away.

Another commonly overlooked parameter is Nitrite, this can spike quickly, killing a couple of fish then disapear within hours leaving happy and dead fish. A Nitrite spike can be easily missed and quite dangerous! I am not saying this is the cause but rather to give you an idea of what might have happened.

I dont want to sound like I am giving you a hard time but I would like to help if I can. There is nothing nicer than a tank of happy healthy fish doing thier thing!

George

 

[kayaker78]

I would strongly suggest bringing a water sample from your aquarium into a compatant fish store and having them test it. I would not recomend adding any more fish to the aquarium until you have found the causes of the deaths. These were not deaths from natural causes!

 

[FlytrapGurl]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Binataboy @ June 30 2003,5:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hi FlyTrapGirl, sorry to hear about your loss. But I would be a little concerned. To lose 2 fish in one night is worrying especialy a Bronze cory, these fish live for YEARS I have heared of over 10, and females grow to over 2 inches (I have seen nearly 3inch females), males about 1.5-2inches.

You also lost a danio from bloat. I would think something is not quite right with your tank. Fish can be "happy" in a tank even when something is wrong. It is simply a case of survival of the fittest.

What filtration do you run on your tank, what do you feed your fish and what time of day did your fish pass away.

Another commonly overlooked parameter is Nitrite, this can spike quickly, killing a couple of fish then disapear within hours leaving happy and dead fish. A Nitrite spike can be easily missed and quite dangerous! I am not saying this is the cause but rather to give you an idea of what might have happened.

I dont want to sound like I am giving you a hard time but I would like to help if I can. There is nothing nicer than a tank of happy healthy fish doing thier thing!

George[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, like I said, the Bronze cory was very old and very big.

Filtration: Penguin 330 Bio Wheel Power Filter.

Feeding: on even days: morning and evening meal of Omega One Tropical Fish Flakes. On odd days: morning meal of Omega One Tropical Fish Flakes and evening meal of dried bloodworms and shrimp pellets.

Time of day Cory passed: some time during the night.

Time of day Platy passed: some time during the night.

Time of day Danio passed: some time during late afternoon/early evening

P.S. I'm also getting worried, because I think my little albino cory, Snowflake, passed away also

I'm DEFINITELY going to have my aquarium water tested.

Rest in peace, Snowflake.

 

[FlytrapGurl]

Ok, I just got home from the petshop. They were closing, but the guy let me in because I needed to have the water test done

. Anyway, he tested the water for Nitrates(or maybe it was Nitrites... I'm not sure...)and said it was high, and that I should feed them a little less, do a 25% water change, and get an airstone. He said that all but one of the fish that died died at night because, at night, there is not as much oxygen being produced, so the high nitrates suffocate the fish, killing them. So sometime today I'm going to do the water change and another time when I have more time, I'm going to either buy an airstone or use one of my old bubblers(if I can find one).

I'll keep you updated,
                          FTG

 

[scottychaos]

FTG,
how often do you do water changes?
and how much each time?
(as part of your regular maintance schedule)

how many fish and what size tank?
all those factors are important in figuring out what went wrong..

I also think you are probably over-feeding.
no fish need to be fed twice a day (except very young fry)
once a day is more than sufficient, and skipping a day completely now and then is also very healthy for your fish!

scot

 

[FlytrapGurl]

Answers:

Once a month.

Almost all the water.

Two angelfish, one golden longfin giant danio, one glowlight tetra(used to have lots), three female platies, four cories, one otocinclus(I'm planning on getting another), and two dojo loaches.

29 gallon high.

Also, I've heard everywhere by pro fishkeepers that fish should be fed twice a day, only as much as the fish can consume within two minutes. My female betta and my two goldfish(betta and goldfish are in seperate tanks, of course)do fine fed twice a day. Goldfish and betta are both fed just as much as they can consume in a couple minutes. Now that I think of it, it does take a bit longer for the fish in the 29 gallon to eat their food... I'm definitely cutting down on how much I feed them...

 

[biggun110]

Hi FTG,

I don't know about nitrates sufficating fish. They would have to be in very high numbers for that much bacteria to be present. Nitrates are not that deadly to freshwater fish. A more regular water change schedule would make a big difference. If you could do 50-75% every 2 weeks and vacuum the gravel well at that time then nitrates would not be a problem.
I am not a big fan of Penquin filters as sole biological filters as they lack a spray bar to keep their bio-wheels turning. I love Emperor 280's and 400's though because of the spray bar and I would think about adding a 280 to your tank and then in 3 weeks removing the 330 -- giving the 280 time to culture that way.
Omega foods are excellent foods but the flakes need to be crushed a bit as they are large and some fish do not like them as well as one would hope, so watch the feeding habits. Dried bloodworms are fine for fish that eat them but frozen bloodworms are much much better. I believe in 2 feedings a day. Most fish pick for food all day long but we cannot duplicate that reality in a tank. Feeding fish is tricky to learn. Most people underfeed their fish nowadays due to all the pollution warnings they get. Frozen and live foods leave the least waste when used. I'd stay with 2 feedings a day for adult fish but just be sure they eat it all. Try to learn to feed the fish specifically and not the tank -- as most do. Move to frozen foods if you can and make flakes the treat. Hikari Micropellets is an excellent food and easy to use.
A few good water changes and gravel vacuumings and some slight food/feeding adjustments and all should be well.

Bobby

 

[FlytrapGurl]

Okiedokie!

 

[scottychaos]

I agree with Biggun..
more frequent water changes and less each time.
10% a week would be ideal, but 25% every 2 weeks is more practical..

Thats what I do with my planted tank..25% every 2 weeks.

also, those "pro fishkeepers" are simply wrong!

Fish can go a solid week without eating and be perfectly fine, so why would they "require" twice a day?
My fish (all the fish, Angelfish, Discus, SAE's, tetras, otto cats and a pleco) have been getting one meal a day for several years..
I have not had one single fish death in almost a year.
less food is always better than more.

scot

 

[Binataboy]

OK time for a crash course in chemistry!!

Natrate and Nitrite behave differently in fish tanks. Nitrite is very toxic as it binds to the hemoglobin in fish blood like carbonmonoxide does with us. This stops the blood from carrying oxygen, and if there is enough Nitrite it can suffocate the fish. At night there is less oxygen in the water so the fish can suffocate easier. You can also get a Nitrite spike if the oxygen level drops as the bacteria need oxygen to feed on the Nitrite, which means if the oxygen drops your fish can get a double whamy!! This is why I wanted to know what time your fish died.

Nitrate is much less toxic and will only have (drasticly) noticable effects in large quantities, usualy over 100ppm. Although lower levels can still have bad long term effects, but not usualy start a mass dieoff.

I could go on for pages here but if you want more info feel free to email me.

I would feed your fish at least twice a day. Livebarers and most other small active fish have fast metabolisms and require rugular feeding. Scot is right that fish can go a long time without food, but this is something where they have to be well fed and healthy before hand. Continuous bouts of starvation can be very detrimental. In the retail industry it is considered very bad to feed livbarers less than twice a day and should be fed three times or more. In this situation the fish are in bare tanks so there is nothing for them to pick at though.

Remember you are better off feeding half as much twice as often! The key to not over feeding, is not how often but how much. Even if you fish eat all the food they are fed, if fed too much food they pass it only party digested, which is just as bad as if they never ate it and left it to rot.

I am not familliar with the food you are feeding but as long as it is a good brand. It is not a good idea to feed food that has been open for more than 3 months as it goes off. Also always seal the lid after feeding, store in cool place, not ontop of the tank, and NEVER get the food out with wet fingers!!!!

Scots water changes sound good.

An air pump is a good idea, I run air on all my tanks except in special curcumstances. I do not use hang on filters as I feel the surface area is not that good, and leaves little room for error, not that they dont work. If you cleaned the filter recently this could lead to a problems with damaging the filter bacteria. Remember NEVER turn the pump off at night. The penguin biowheels use disposable cartridges if I am right, I do not like these as when you throw them away you lose a lot of your bacteria. Did you clean your filter recently?

Phew....
I hope this is of sopme help
George

 

[FlytrapGurl]

I clean the darned things every week

Anyhowees, I did the water change and went to WalMart today. Got a 14 inch bubble curtain, 8 foot air tube, and a pump. Only until I was half way down the road to home did I look in the bag and realize that the pump was too small!!! And I wasn't about to drive back, either. It said only pumped out 1200 cc. a minute(what a cc. is has me), while... ok... let me explain this better... the pump I got only pumps out 1200 cc. a minute. A 1200 cc./min pump requires a 5'' airstone. But a 2800 cc./min pump is the one that requires the 14'' airstone, which is what I have... so I need to go tomorrow back to WalMart and exchange this 1200 cc./min pump for a 2800 cc./min one. ***sigh***

***bangs head on keyboard*** Stupidstupidstupid... !!! Oof... ow... geeeesh.... head... ache... ow... ***runs to kitchen cabinet for pain pills***

 

[scottychaos]

really all you need is a tiny pump and a tiny airstone..
those really long 14" "bubble curtains" are just for looks, they do nothing that a 1" airstone wont do just as well!

IMO airstones are totally un-necessary anyway, I have never had one, just the filter outflow alone keeps the surface churned up enough to allow proper gas exchange..
you dont "need" an airstone at all.
they are just for looks only.
so what you bought is probably fine! the smaller pump just wont make as many bubbles with the long bubble wand..it might only "fill" half of it..which isnt a big deal at all! unless you really want the long curtain of bubbles..but it will make zero difference for your fish or your tank health.

the problem with nitrates (or was it nitrites?) building up in your tank has absolutely nothing to do with gas exchange at the surface..bubbles will do nothing to improve the situation.
the problem was solely the once a month water changes.
you can have a perfectly healthy tank simply by increasing the water change schedule!
I have the impression you are getting bubbles to improve the health of your tank?they will do nothing to improve the health,
they just look nice, they do nothing for the tank other than looks..(if your filter outflow is already agitating the water surface..which it probably is.)

Scot