total newbie wanting to

[wezx]

im interrested in setting up a fresh water aquarium.
ill start with maybe a 2ft or 1ft tank
can anyone refer me to some good sites for newbies or some good articles, etc?
i saw a baby arowanna for S$18(about US10) and some chiclids(?)for S$3 in a fish shop.
can anyone recomend a good fish and plants to start with?
around how much does it cost to set up an aquarium?

thx!

 

[wickedthistle]

Hey Wezx,

I'm only a step up from newbie since I have my tank now. First see if you can find out how many gallons the tank is. It's probably 10-20 gallons for that size, but it makes a big difference on how many fish you can put in there.

I had a roommate with an arowana and ciclids, but she had a huge (100 gal?) tank because the fish can get large. I have a feeling those types might be too big for a tank the size you're thinking of unless you want just one or two of them. Check for the maximum growth size before buying. Oh, and ciclids can be very aggressive, so keep in mind that they may fight with other types of fish.

For an aquarium you're going to need the tank itself, a hood with lights, filter, heater, some gravel, then the plants and fish itself. Unless you get some of the equipment used or from a friend, it's going to cost at least $100. If you go to a thrift store, sometimes you can find a tank for a much cheaper price than at the store. Remember that the larger the tank the more it costs for the hood though!

Hope that helps!

 

[jimscott]

Just to let you know where I'm coming from - I've kept tropical fish since I was a child. My dad started me off with a ten gallon tank that had a corydoras catfish, a swordtail, a zebra, and guppies. Within a few years I had eight tanks, with livebearers (guppies, mollies, platys, & swordtails), a breeding pair of jewel cichlids, a breeding pair of convict cichlids, tanks for breeding bettas, paradise fish, dwarf gouramis, pearls, blues, and thicklipped gouramis. Also had a tank for a plant called water sprite. As a young adult I worked for four years at a wholesaler, in charge of a freshwater section, the plants, and the saltwater. That's my "resume." With regard to plants, I recommend water sprite and plant bulbs. The latter are the cheapest, hardiest plants around. Ya can't kill 'em. Water sprite, if not planted in the substrate are excellent for baby fish to hide. Most people start out as I did - with cheap, small, colorful fish that breed without coaxing (livebearers) and/or goldfish. My guess is that you would like to start out with something bigger and more expensive. Cichlids, in general tend to be rough on plants. Most cichlids grow large and require a tanks to accommodate their size. If tou buy a young cichlid, say an oscar, you can get away with a small tank for now. But it will outgrow it soon enough. Bottom line you'll need at least a 55 gallon tank. Both cichlids(excluding the dwarf variety)and arowanas need food that won't be cheap. You can get by with pellets with some cichlids, but the arowanas and other cichlids need live food. Depending upon whether you have young fish or more mature ones will determine whether you will need another tank for feeder guppies (not fancy) or goldfish. I wouldn't necessarily encourage starting out with the fish that you mention - not until you make your mistakes with the cheaper fish. Tropoical Fish Hobbyist (TFH) or Fresh and Marine Aquaria (FAMA) are good magazines with excellent articles on a wide range of topics. Are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle? Many dads buy their kids a typical 10 gallon setup and they want to throw fish in the tank the next day. They think that all they need to do is get rid of the chlorine, but are unaware of the ammonia and nitrite part of the nitrogen cycle that needs to be gotten through first. Let me know if you have any other questions. Good skill.

 

[RamPuppy]

Jim makes excellent points.

I would add, and re-enforce:

Big fish should only have big tanks. and you should always research your purchase BEFORE you go to the store. If you see a fish you like, ask the store to hold it for you, most will. Go home, research it (some fish stores will let you go through their books right there!) make sure you have the right environment for it, know the difficulty, and make sure you are up to the task.

Case in point, Arrowanas, the silver can grow to astounding proportions, I have seen one 4 feet long in an 800 gallon tank... THe other consideration for an arrowana is water quality. It must be spectacular, or the arrowana will suffer from a condition known as gill curl, and infact, if you see this in your tank on an arrow, it is a sure sign it's way past time for a water change. It is easily reversible, but constant poor conditions will cause permenant damage. (I have heard of people doing home'brew surgery on it... but...... you get the idea... a gallon of prevention...)

By all means start out with a 10 gallon tank. It will teach you stringent husbandry, keeping up with water changes, so on, so forth, but as soon as you feel you have learned your lessons I would move up to the biggest you can afford and house. Why? Simple, larger tanks are larger eco-systems, and tend to fluctuate less. Above all, when you get a larger tank, avoid the urge to overstock it! Let your fish have their breathing room!

I think the Eclipse tanks are great starter tanks, but if you buy all the parts seperately, I would reccomend an Emperor power filter. Skip the undergravel filter, it's not out-dated as some people say, but I do believe better things (like the bio-wheel on an emperor) have come along, and it will be detrimental if you want to keep plants. The emperor will be enough. As with carnivorous plants, pack as much light over them as you can (if your growing plants) if you control your feeding, change water, and don't over-stock, you shouldn't have algae problems.

We are always glad to help and talk about our hobby here, so ask away!

BTW, as some have said before, many times the most gratifying tank you will ever keep will be your first one, with the 'simple' fish many people move on from to 'greater' fish. If you find something you love, like a sword, or a rosey barb, enjoy it, stay with it... and remember, if 6 months down the line you like your rosey barbs, but want something new, RESEARCH! Make sure your tank is not stocked to the limit, and that the new fish/what not, is compatible. That leaf fish may look cool, but when you see a rosey barb shaped lump in his tummy... you will drop your jaw in awe at how wide that suckers mouth can get!

 

[jimscott]

Your last line evoked a memory. My dad had his one, big show tank. In it was a few inch tinfoil barb. I wanted to buy him a birthday present - 12 for a dollar neons. You can guess what happened. Tinfoil barbs like neons just as ALF likes cats. That was a painful lesson!

 

[wezx]

thanks alot guys!
i thought ciclids were small fishes lol! Ill start with a 10 gallon "comunity" tank with small fishes. My mum has a few tetras and i might take some. i might buy some colourful guppies(Or maybe not ,they breed alot right?) and some apple snails to eat algae/dirt, and maybe some of those cool underwater grass....... thats all i know! Ive been to many fish shops and fish farms to look at fishes for my tank but i did'nt take note of their names!maybe in the future ill breed big fishes

ive done a bit of reserch, ill do alot more!

Rampuppy:Emperor power filter? WHat that? sorry i live in Singapore and most of the aquarium equipments are "Resun" or other Chinese brands. Also should'nt we have a under gravel filter just to make the water a little better? It dosen't cost much right? Or are there some other disadvantages?
leaf fish? ive never seen it but it sounds cool!

Jimscott: Im a child now and hope to be a great "aquariumist" when im older. Just like you before! But the problem is i have to spend my own money

. Im not aware of the nitrogen cycle but ill do some reserch on it.
thanks for the recomendations ill check them out

also how much light should i have. A shop owner says that (for a 2ft [10gallon] tank 72W of PL lights with Ballast on for 10 hours a day is enough but thats quite expensive, (to me) WHat do you rguys ecomend for a 2ft tank?

thanks again!

 

[jimscott]

You live in Singapore? I'm jealous! We had a supplier called Dolphin International. Most of our fish came from them - including the ht fancy guppies I love. You gotta check them out if they're open to the public. Hardlines aren't my strong suit. I'll leave that to RamPuppy. I'm a fish person. Man, I'd buy some water sprite plants and a pair of each livebearer type )guppy, molly, platy, & swordtail - and let them have at it. Then I'd suggest getting another tank of let's say dwarf gouramis (1 pair), with the female laden with eggs. Let them have at it. Then another tank with a pair of convict cichlids, with a piece of shale or slate - and let them have at it. Than another tank....

 

[wezx]

jimscott: lol, i don't have the room/money/permission to do that
dolphin international? i check it out
also won't the tank look bad with all the black water sprits roots hanging from the top?

i have a round airstone about 3" in diameter, should i use it or should i get a smaller one? ive read that adding too much oxygen can "lower" the CO2. How can i keep the oxygen and Co2 right when i don;t have any plants yet?

also is it important to have fertilizer for the plants?

 

[wezx]

Also would i have to buy a nitrate/temperature/ammonia/etc tester?
that sounds expensive!!!

also i like guppies, i see some nice red/blue/yellow tailed ones for sale in markets. The problem is they breed alot(we had a pond once) and i might not have space, what do you think?

 

[RamPuppy]

well, your sound like your doing your reading! adding to much O2 will lower the CO2 by disturbing the surface of the water, but the two are NOT mutually exclusive. I would not even mess with an air pump or an Air Stone.

ABOUT UNDERGRAVEL FILTERS: imagine is your home had a vacuum surface under the carpet, and whenever you made a mess, it would just suck down under the carpet. Where does all that stuff go? NO WHERE! It stays there and breaks down, and creates a nasty mulm under the filter plate. To clean it, you have to use a water change siphon with a grate over it, and disturb the gravel bed, sucking it all out and throwing it out with your water changes. In my opinion, the only benefit of an undergravel filter is concentrating the waste in one place for you. You want to grow plants, you don't want an undergravel filter. The very nature of disturbing the gravel bed is bad for your plants, your disturbing their roots.

OH, and you don't want to mix an apple snail and plants, your plants will quickly become breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

EMPEROR POWER FILTERS: they probably have something similar in singapor... here is a link to what they look like...

LINK

If you watch the rotating image in the upper right for a few seconds, you will see one where the lid is slightly raised, and there is a pleated wheel under it, that is the BIO-Wheel, and these are great inventions, they provide TONS of bio-filtration.

I would reccomend you go fish only first, with some water sprite, and as much light as you can. Keep it simple, and you will learn from it, and just don'e ever get overly ambitious... you will do great!

 

[jimscott]

You can always spread the wealth around to others; get them involved with fish. If I remember correctly, plants absorb CO2 by day through photosythesis and revers the process at night. CO2 imbalance due to too many plants never came up as an issue. With regard to the nitrogen cycle, you can purchase a test kit; it wouldn't hurt. I wouldn't mess around with chemicals to speed up the process. It isn't necessary. Just set up ypur aquarium with the usual hardlines: gravel, thermometer, heater, filter, pump, light... Add the water and let the tank filter for a couple days. Add a plant. Add a fish - cheap one that can be sacrificed - like a FEEDER guppy. Now we can talk about the nitrogen cycle. The guppy will produce waste products - namely ammonia. You may notice that your tank clouds up. Don't worry. Nitrosomonas bacteria beaks down harmful ammonia to also harmful nitrite. Then, as the ammomia concentrations go down, the nitrite level goes up. Nitrobacter bacteria breaks down the nitrites into much safer nitrate. When all this occurs it is truly safe to introduce more fish. This process takes a few weeks and it also takes place on the filter media, for the most part. A dirty sponge filter or whatever is a GOOD thing. A brand new filter looks nice but it is not "seasoned." That is, it hasn't gone through the nitrogen cycle. A dirty and full filter; that is, clogged, is a filter that isn't working. It needs to be squeeezed out in the sink. I learned this the hard way. I also learned that using "aged water" on a new filter is anice temporary fix - but a really bad idea. It has no "good" bacteria, meaning it hasn't gone through the cycle. Don't try to rush the process. Be patient. Go slowly. Add fish slowly. When I was a kid I had a 5.5 gallon tank with a cheap incandescent light on top. In it I placed a few broken, leftover pieces of water sprite. they floated. After several weeks those "pieces" grew and grew and grew - above the water line. An airstone is nice to have I don't see any reason to get a smaller or larger one. Just get a filter going, even a small, cheap sponge filter and let the bacteria deal with the toxins produced by animal waste products. Have fun!

 

[SnapTrap]

Quote[/b] (wezx @ Jan. 01 2004,05:35)]Also would i have to buy a nitrate/temperature/ammonia/etc tester?
that sounds expensive!!!

also i like guppies, i see some nice red/blue/yellow tailed ones for sale in markets. The problem is they breed alot(we had a pond once) and i might not have space, what do you think?

Test kits aren't expensive, you can get Aquarium Phamaceuticls master test kit for 20 dollars and it has pH-high range pH-Ammonia-nitrite-GH-KH. Really, you can still put some snails with plants, such as Spike-topped apple snails (Pomacea bridgesii). It's important to note though, that you will need to feed snails sinking wafers or lettuce in order to keep them alive. They aren't garbage cans, and they aren't all that great at cleaning, so you should keep them because their interesting, not to clean your tank. Get some gohst shrimp too. Feel free to ask me any other questions you have about freshwater inverts, I perfer them to fish. You need to visit http://www.applesnail.net

 

[RamPuppy]

I guess I have to defer to your judgement on snails, I have never had an apple not devour my plants, and I have tried a few, though I don't know what specific ones they were.

The best choices for snails in a planted tank (bar none) is the malaysian trumpet snail.

For algae control, a Siamese Algae eater, will eat anything, even black hair algae (ick).

 

[wezx]

thanks for the replys everyone! Im learning fast!

today i dropped by a small aquarium shop. I saw a filter called "bio filter". It looks like an external filter with a tube sticking in the water. It looked quite like the emperor filter. It is 200 liters per hour (what does that ,mean?) and it is biological, chemical and mechenical filter (what does that mean?)
best of all it's only S$15!!!
is that ok for my 10 (OR 20?SEE 2 POSTS DOWN)gallon tank?

also what's a "spone filter"?
does algae grow fast?  will a Siamese algae eater handle a 10 gallon tank with quite strong light?

just to confirm, is a standard 2ft(24") tank 10gallon?

thanks!!!!!

 

[wickedthistle]

Oh, another note - if you get live plants, make sure to wash and check them carefully. They often come with some annoying snails (don't know the name) but they are a pest. It took me 2 months to get rid of them by crushing them when I saw them! The snail's eggs look like clear and white jelly.

Ram has a good suggestion to have an algae eater (Crossocheilus siamensis) in the tank. Another good one is a catfish called (otocinclus afinis) which will stay very small and is great for a 10 gallon. You'll likely need two, but I like fish in pairs to watch them interact.

New tanks are so exciting!

 

[SnapTrap]

Quote[/b] (wezx @ Jan. 02 2004,02:54)]thanks for the replys everyone! Im learning fast!

today i dropped by a small aquarium shop. I saw a filter called "bio filter". It looks like an external filter with a tube sticking in the water. It looked quite like the emperor filter. It is 200 liters per hour (what does that ,mean?) and it is biological, chemical and mechenical filter (what does that mean?)
best of all it's only S$15!!!
is that ok for my 10 gallon tank?

also what's a "spone filter"?
does algae grow fast?  will a Siamese algae eater handle a 10 gallon tank with quite strong light?

just to confirm, is a standard 2ft(24") tank 10gallon?

thanks!!!!!

Tengallon tanks are 20'' long, 10'' wide. The tank you mentioned would be a twenty gallon. Sponge filters use air to pull water through a sponge.
RamPuppy, there are about 9 genera in apple snails. Chances are you always get the wrong species. If its blue, its the type you want.

 

[wezx]

My tank is measured by LxBxH = 23"x 12" x 14"
how many gallons is that?

 

[SnapTrap]

Quote[/b] (wezx @ Jan. 02 2004,02:54)]thanks for the replys everyone! Im learning fast!

today i dropped by a small aquarium shop. I saw a filter called "bio filter". It looks like an external filter with a tube sticking in the water. It looked quite like the emperor filter. It is 200 liters per hour (what does that ,mean?) and it is biological, chemical and mechenical filter (what does that mean?)
best of all it's only S$15!!!
is that ok for my 10 (OR 20?SEE 2 POSTS DOWN)gallon tank?

also what's a "spone filter"?
does algae grow fast?  will a Siamese algae eater handle a 10 gallon tank with quite strong light?

just to confirm, is a standard 2ft(24") tank 10gallon?

thanks!!!!!

Your tank is 17 gallons.  The filter you mentioned is too small.  You need one that filters 150 to 200 GPH or about 300 to 400 LPH.  Note that this is for the hang-on back type of filter.  Mechanical filtration uses foam or floss to catch peices of dirt.  Chemical filtration uses substances that catch and hold discolouration, dyes, and other chemicals.  Biological filtration uses bacteria of the phylum Nitrospira to break down toxic chemicals such as ammonia and nitrite.  Biological filtration is the most important of the three.  Siamese algea eaters have the terrible tendecy to rasp away at your other fishs' sides until the die.  This usually come with age.

 

[wezx]

great!thanks so ill get....

SET UP-
filter: 500 LPH biofilter S$18, (maybe a sponge filter S$5),
light: 36W PL light S$40+ 2 tubes 30W S$32(should i add anything like pink light?)
temperature:maybe a cheap PC fan S$10 to cool the lights or the water (if needed) a heater S$10(if needed)
tank: good quality plastic(glass might break) tank about S$30
Gravel: not quite sure about this yet, i need to check it out, will cost maybe S$10
altogether: S$150!!! I have to have cheaper light!

FISH:
a few small shrimps as scavengers, an algae eater/ 2 catfish(do i need to feed those catfish?)
2 nice male guppies
a few small tetras
the rest id have to go to the fish farms to see which are nice
am i "overloading"?

PLANTS/rocks: a few water sprits, ricca...i have to find out more,ill make a small rock cave for fish to hide

sounds good? did i miss out anything? Of course ill add plants and fish slowly

thanks!

 

[SnapTrap]

A seventeen gallon tank can hold eleven and a half inches of fish.36W is way more light than you need.Maybe 20 W.
The filter you mentioned is too powerful. 500 L or 250GPH is far to much. Add two hardy fish to start, and the rest in two months.