Updates on the ivory montys

[Nflytrap]

I will keep all the suggestions in mind. I'm kind unsure on the gularis do to size-and the fact that many are simply dubbed as aquarium strain. I've heard of and seen pictures of the dwarf red gularis, lacking the extensive finnage and being a different shade, but those things appear to be pretty rare.

Someone on a msg board has N. korthausae 'Mafia Island' available now at 10 bucks a pair including shipping. Interesting killies, but the timing isn't too good. Plus, I think I'd be looking for more color. I'm pretty sure that fiery red caudal fins or dorsals are pretty common in the nothos. However, I bet that they all look gorgeous in life-so many choices. As you can tell, I like to throw ideas around and accumulate all kinds of "useless" info before taking the dive

I think nothos may be best suited for me as my water conditions here are hard and ph around 7.5(last time I touched a test kit).

The rack will house a total of 3 ten gallons...plus other miscellaneous items, I may put 2 on the bottom and one in eye level due to the weight thing. How easily spooked are the nothos? I in tanks farther down, the fish tend to spook more easily(why, I have no idea).

I think what I may do is:

1-10 gallon. For breeding or praps raising juvies.

3 gallon or so: Residence of the breeders outside of breeding. Praps 2 or a divider to keep male and female seperate

Some kind of storage container to keep the moist peat in.

Sweater boxes(dunno how many) for hatching and raising fry.

Whats your method of incubating the eggs? Are temps important? One book mentioned keeping the peat at about the consistency of tobacco...which thankfully enough is something I don't know.


I've just discovered a difficulty in that it is now a bit more tricky to do water changes. I did leave as much room as possible, but I'm used to an infinite ceiling above all my aquariums. Bailing isn't very convenient now. How do you guys do it?



Thanks again!

 

[biggun110]

Hi Nflytrap,


5 calabarica fry seen tonight! One is even already 3/4 of an inch long. This is great. Only took 8 months. There is a gorgeous photo of this species in the killifish eggs section of Aquabid -- check it out and you will see why I love it. It is listed under Scriptoaphyosemion liberiensis "old calabarica strain" on page 2 I think.

Bobby

 

[Nflytrap]

Awesome! Just saw that auction but didn't quite connect it to your fish. Very attractive critters-good luck with them!


One of the articles at Cincikillies(awesome site BTW) mentions "gorilla hair" Shredded (I believe redwood) bark that tthey sell at home Depot for landscaping. They said it worked well, but I'm unsure of if it was used as just spawning media or as incubation also.

Thanks!

 

[biggun110]

<<I will keep all the suggestions in mind. I'm kind unsure on the gularis do to size-and the fact that many are simply dubbed as aquarium strain. I've heard of and seen pictures of the dwarf red gularis, lacking the extensive finnage and being a different shade, but those things appear to be pretty rare.>>

The red dwarf is around but I don't like it. The regular ones are big fish but boy are they nice.


<<Someone on a msg board has N. korthausae 'Mafia Island' available now at 10 bucks a pair including shipping. Interesting killies, but the timing isn't too good. Plus, I think I'd be looking for more color. I'm pretty sure that fiery red caudal fins or dorsals are pretty common in the nothos.>>

Very common in the Tanzania/Kenya species. I like the Zambian species for that matter, or rachovii -- hard to beat rachovii for looks. Rupripinnis is a looker. So is Kilomberoensis



<<<I think nothos may be best suited for me as my water conditions here are hard and ph around 7.5(last time I touched a test kit). >>>

Yes, very true. Alot of them will do great in your water. At most you might want to cut it a little with RO for breeding but that might not even be necessary.


<<The rack will house a total of 3 ten gallons...plus other miscellaneous items, I may put 2 on the bottom and one in eye level due to the weight thing. How easily spooked are the nothos? I in tanks farther down, the fish tend to spook more easily(why, I have no idea). >>

Nothos are calm but fish that only see legs going by are more easily spooked. I don't know why.



<<1-10 gallon. For breeding or praps raising juvies.

3 gallon or so: Residence of the breeders outside of breeding. Praps 2 or a divider to keep male and female seperate>>

Good.


<<Some kind of storage container to keep the moist peat in.>>

A nice styro box is good.


<<Sweater boxes(dunno how many) for hatching and raising fry.>>

Good. Steralite is a good brand.


<<Whats your method of incubating the eggs? Are temps important? One book mentioned keeping the peat at about the consistency of tobacco...which thankfully enough is something I don't know.>>

I keep the moist fluffed peat in 8 x 10 plastic fish store bags tied with a rubber band and labeled and put in a styro box for storage. I crack the top of the styro so there is air exchange. I try to keep Notho eggs at 74-78F, 75F being perfect. I look at them weekly to see that the peat is moist and the bag aired up. That's it. When I collect peat -- usually at least a quart for breeding -- I put the wet stuff on several layers of newspaper and cover it with newspaper for several hours to overnight until it is just nice and moist but not overly wet. Then I store. The tobacco idea is old news. Different species need different wetness and temps and Nothos do well with moist peat at the mid 70's.


<<<I've just discovered a difficulty in that it is now a bit more tricky to do water changes. I did leave as much room as possible, but I'm used to an infinite ceiling above all my aquariums. Bailing isn't very convenient now. How do you guys do it?>>>

plastic siphon hose with a filter tube strainer on the end. I use the 5/8" size clear plastic soft tubing and strainer (put out by Lee's).


Never heard of gorilla hair and I would avoid it. Alot of these methods are used by people who like to pick and count eggs. I just like to spawn the fish, collect the peat moss and see what hatches as a surprise.

Bobby

 

[Nflytrap]

Nice to know I created an approved setup for the nothos!

How do you keep the eggs at 75 degrees? It is apt to drop down to around 65 here in our house come winter.

Also, for most notho species, how productive are they? Should I expect to be overrun? If I end up with too many eggs/juvies, will it be easy to find homes for em?

How noticeable are the differences between the 2 locations of kafuensis that you keep? Dunno if I'm making the correct connection, but is Callopanchax occidentalis the 'Golden Pheasant'?

Thanks!

Looked at some pictures-and N. kafuensis differs a Ton in between locations. Kayuni State farm appears to be pinkish blue-Nega Nega brown(only 2 pics of this one) and Chunga fits the classic notho coloration(red patterned dorsal orange caudal).

 

[biggun110]

Quote[/b] ]
Nice to know I created an approved setup for the nothos!

Yep, just with a 3 gallon you will want to use alot of floating plants and 2 females as the males are sex fiends.

Quote[/b] ]
How do you keep the eggs at 75 degrees? It is apt to drop down to around 65 here in our house come winter.

You will need to find a warm area or create an incubator as 65F is too low. 73-78 F is ok. Any warm areas of the house that stay warm? You can create an incubator by using a 1/3 filled tank with a submegible heater and a shelf built to be out of the water and a glass cover. The heater keeps it warm and you sat the bags of peat on the shelf. Simple and great for just a few bags to store.

Quote[/b] ]
Also, for most notho species, how productive are they? Should I expect to be overrun? If I end up with too many eggs/juvies, will it be easy to find homes for em?

Nothos can lay 100's of eggs over say 2 weeks. Hatches can range from a few to hundreds. Once you get it down you can hatch a bunch. A LFS will take your surplus or bring them to a local club. You can set what you produce by how often you give them peat to breed in. Fish breeding is fun though and that has to be the main goal. Nothos are not for everyone as they are not community tank fish due to their need for relatively still calm water and rich food -- plus their high metabolism.

Quote[/b] ]
How noticeable are the differences between the 2 locations of kafuensis that you keep?

Yes, the Nanzhila has a more marbled blue/red body color than the Mambova. The Mambova is more robust and its color is more patterned.

Quote[/b] ]
Dunno if I'm making the correct connection, but is Callopanchax occidentalis the 'Golden Pheasant'?

Yes

Quote[/b] ]
Looked at some pictures-and N. kafuensis differs a Ton in between locations. Kayuni State farm appears to be pinkish blue-Nega Nega brown(only 2 pics of this one) and Chunga fits the classic notho coloration(red patterned dorsal orange caudal

Kayuni State Farm is close to Nanzhila. Nega Nega I have never seen. Chunga is intensely orange and considered one of the prettiest Nothos. There is a huge range of colors and populations which is why collection codes are so crucial as those populations might be separate species with more study so we don't want any hybrids. The Zambian Nothos are my favorites. Symoensi is beautiful. My dream Notho is polli from Congo right over the border. It has not been around in the hobby since 1963.

I'm hatching lacortei, arnoldi and whitei eggs tonight. Wish me luck!

Bobby

 

[biggun110]

Hi Nflytrap,

Oh, yeah, there were 30 Mambova when I moved them to the grow out tank and all the bellysliders became normal swimmers. I should see them sexing out in 3 weeks.

I have more baby monties and tons of nezzies -- time to move the angels.

2 of the huge koi veil angels turned out to be a pair and they are so fine I will try to save their fry.

I see 2 velifera males so far and one petenensis male. They are maturing. There are more calabarica fry. I bet there are really a bunch in the wall to wall java moss.

Bobby

 

[Nflytrap]

Interesting: There are about as many theories on belly sliders as there are influential hobbyists...what do you think?

AS for warm areas, I will only know in the winter. I know that my mom lets the house go down to about 68 or so, and my current fish can take that just fine? I can borrow a heater from my grandmas and give the incubator a shot-or earn some store credit on a batch of swordtails...which I hope will reach saleable size before winter. I've heard killifish in general are fine with lower temps than normal-does that apply to Nothos?

I haven't seen many koi angels in the shops and most of the barely have any orange to fit for the name koi. Good luck with yours!

Nothos sound like ideal fish to share some space on this rack.

Also, with so many fry, have you ever considered auctioning them off or trading them? I remember a few auctions on there for fry that people actually bidded on. You could offer a batch of 20 and see if any would take it. Too bad you couldn't provide a pic of your adults though.

 

[Nflytrap]

At the bottom is a picture of a 'Mambova ' which doesn't look to different from the Kayuni state farm at a glance...this is almost like a blind date trying to tell what these locations look like!

http://www.killi.co.uk/SpeciesDetails.php?ID=459

Found this picture-one of the few pictures of blue killies which I feel did the specimen justice while still looking realistic

http://www.alfanita.com/fiskar/n_eggersi.htm

 

[biggun110]

Quote[/b] ]
Interesting: There are about as many theories on belly sliders as there are influential hobbyists...what do you think?

I have no idea. For 30 years it was hatching the eggs too early. Now its hatching too late. Then some fry recover after a few days and some never do. Some fish become bellysliders when adults -- like one female Nanzhila kafuensis and one female zonatus this week.

Quote[/b] ]
AS for warm areas, I will only know in the winter. I know that my mom lets the house go down to about 68 or so, and my current fish can take that just fine? I can borrow a heater from my grandmas and give the incubator a shot-or earn some store credit on a batch of swordtails...which I hope will reach saleable size before winter. I've heard killifish in general are fine with lower temps than normal-does that apply to Nothos?

Yes, Aphyosemions and their relatives can do 68 F just fine with some mountain species even lower -- like Diapertons and A. jorgenscheeli from Gabon. Nothos like the low to mid 70's. Gn. zonatus like it 82F. So its a range.

Quote[/b] ]
I haven't seen many koi angels in the shops and most of the barely have any orange to fit for the name koi. Good luck with yours!

These are fine. Very tall, long fins with lots of white, black and orange and very calm. I love them. They are like 12 inches tall.

Quote[/b] ]
Nothos sound like ideal fish to share some space on this rack.

Yes, they are a perfect killie. Pretty, bold, hardy, prolific.

Quote[/b] ]
Also, with so many fry, have you ever considered auctioning them off or trading them? I remember a few auctions on there for fry that people actually bidded on. You could offer a batch of 20 and see if any would take it. Too bad you couldn't provide a pic of your adults though.

I'd rather do pairs. i just put the arnoldi, lacortei and whitei in to hatch. Now whitei are an easy annual to start with. I am also ordering a bunch of eggs from Bob Morenski in North Dakota. He is a premeir Notho guy. I'm getting more symoensi to cross with mine, Kafuensis Chunga, Kafuensis Kayuni ZAM 97-9 and Orthonotus MOZ 99-8. They are all $12 a bag plus postage and Bob's eggs usually hatch from 30-50 fry. His email is rmmorski@restel.net if you are interested. Postage is $4 on the first bag and a dollar for each additional bag. He has about 25 different species available as eggs -- Nothos and other species.

I've never kept eggersi but it is pretty. That's a bad picture of Mambova.

Bobby

 

[biggun110]

Hi Nflytrap,

I got a huge hatch of Simp. whitei -- 100's and 100's and a nice hatch on the M. lacortei and Fundulopanchax arnoldi (Calabar location). The lacortei seemed to jump out of the eggs. I've never seen fry hatch out so fast -- less than an hour. The arnoldi are a new population and not distributed yet so a good hatch was important as only a few are around from one pair that came into Canada last year.

Bobby

 

[biggun110]

Hi Nflytrap,

Looks like 300-500 whitei fry; 50+ lacortei fry and 40+ arnoldi fry. I am over run!

Bobby

 

[Nflytrap]

Yikes! Now is that a good or bad thing?

Gotta look up simp. whitei. and lacortei Are they demanding fish? Also, do yours have a location?


Btw, when they sell eggs, have they already been incubated(therefore you could remove them from the box, and hatch them), or do you have to incubate?

Thanks! Great to see you are acquiring N. kafuensis 'Chunga'-how do 'Kayuni' Look?

Now 5 monty fry swimming around in the tank, but the 2 young females are flat as boards today...so I should see more.

Thanks!

 

[biggun110]

Hi N,

Quote[/b] ]
Yikes! Now is that a good or bad thing?

The whitei are too many, you should see the half filled 10 gallon I hatched them in. I wish I had a camera as it is too funny. Wall to wall fry. I had to add air already and Saturday they will be going into a 30 gallon.

The lacortei are great as it is a rare fish, although 2 months incubation at 80-84F has hatched maybe 100 so I wonder why it is rare -- might be sex ratio problems. They are all over. The arnoldi are great as we need to get this location distributed.

Quote[/b] ]
Gotta look up simp. whitei. and lacortei Are they demanding fish? Also, do yours have a location?

Whitei is EASY! Lacortei is suppose to be hard and arnoldi is fairly easy. All have locations. Whitei are "Varzea das Moches". Arnoldi are "Calabar". Lacortei are "Formosa something something" I have to look it up. Whitei are F2's, lacortei are F2's and arnoldi are F2's.

Quote[/b] ]
Btw, when they sell eggs, have they already been incubated(therefore you could remove them from the box, and hatch them), or do you have to incubate?

Usually you have to incubate as it is better to send new eggs than developed eggs with all the air pressure changes and stuff in shipment but some send developed eggs and it still works so go figure.

Quote[/b] ]
Thanks! Great to see you are acquiring N. kafuensis 'Chunga'-how do 'Kayuni' Look?

"Kayuni" is just a later collection around the Kayuni State Farm site but the farm was broken up by then so they just used "Kayuni" when they recollected there. They might be a bit more blue and have a more marbled coloring on the body.
Now 5 monty fry swimming around in the tank, but the 2 young females are flat as boards today...so I should see more.

I'm also getting some blue gularis and Callopanchax huwaldi (a golden pheasant relative).

Bobby
Bobby

 

[Nflytrap]

Looked up the whitei, beautiful fish! From the pics, it appears that they are black blue with white spangles. Seeing you got 300-500, how long did that take for the female(s) to fill the peat with that many

Btw, have you seen any gularis with locations attached?

I saw some pretty good pics of 'Chunga' online-will have to get them and see what you think.

Also, does the commonly stated 'fact' that you are best of with trios hold true? I hear tell that notho males(along with some other killies) are very aggresive and will spawn out a female and then batter her till she is shredded up.


Also, are you sure macroacara is the correct name? I did a search using it and found nothing-but then used cynolebias lacortei and found a website labeling them as maretocara(sp.) lacortei

 

[biggun110]

Quote[/b] ]
Looked up the whitei, beautiful fish! From the pics, it appears that they are black blue with white spangles. Seeing you got 300-500, how long did that take for the female(s) to fill the peat with that many

The peats were in the tanks for about a month. I was spawning a male and 3 females in 2 tanks. I bet if I redry there are even more fry to be hatched. I found out today that my location of whitei is really another very closely related species called Simpsonicthys papiliferus. They were separated about 3 years ago into 2 species. A Brazilian hobbyist friend of mine corrected me.

Quote[/b] ]
Btw, have you seen any gularis with locations attached?

Not really. The Japanese may have a new line from wild stock but no one brings in wild blue gularis. I've been trying to get them for 3 years. So all location data right now is suspect. All species do not need location data to be worthwhile.

Quote[/b] ]
I saw some pretty good pics of 'Chunga' online-will have to get them and see what you think.

Well, if I get mine and hatch alot you'll be welcome to some. Or wrote to Bob Morenski yourself and get eggs or pairs. Do it now as he is far north and cannot ship in a few more weeks.

Quote[/b] ]
Also, does the commonly stated 'fact' that you are best of with trios hold true? I hear tell that notho males(along with some other killies) are very aggresive and will spawn out a female and then batter her till she is shredded up.

On the whole very true except with some species where the extra girls become egg eaters. That fault is more common in plant spawners than soil spawners.

I have too many fish! I see around 15 baby monties now. They are really good looking fish when fully mature. My males are beauts.

Bobby

 

[Nflytrap]

Interesting...I saw one sight that divided it up in to a whole bunch of names-among which was S. bokermanni(only one I remember cause it was distinct). Shows how useful location data can be sometimes!

I'm not sure if I can write him as the folks are a bit thin on permission but I will give it a shot. I assume he sends his unincubated and that I have 5 months time till they can be hatched?

Thanks!

 

[biggun110]

Hi N,

Quote[/b] ]
Interesting...I saw one sight that divided it up in to a whole bunch of names-among which was S. bokermanni(only one I remember cause it was distinct). Shows how useful location data can be sometimes!

Very much. There has been a great discusion going on about just this on "Killitalk" the AKA's list serve. You can join for free on the AKA webpage. All the Brazilian hobbyists are really talking and they know so much about their fish.

Quote[/b] ]
I'm not sure if I can write him as the folks are a bit thin on permission but I will give it a shot. I assume he sends his unincubated and that I have 5 months time till they can be hatched?

Bob Morenski is a 30 year member of the AKA and one of its best breeders. He has been an officer in the club many times. He has a great dvd program on breeding Nothos that you can order as an AKA member. He breeds maybe 50 species of killies. He is trustworthy. Just mention my name Robert (Bobby) Ellermann if you mail him. He just emailed me that I will be getting the eggs so if you can't talk to him I will have them soon enough. The Mambova are growing fast. They will be sexable soon.

All my new fry are pigging out on bbs! Some of the calabarica fry are already sexable! That is fast for a plant spawner.

Bobby

 

[Nflytrap]

I'll let my folks know(actually, I've been casually filling my dad in on these unusual fish that lay eggs that can survive the dry season etc. etc. which is enough to keep him interested during long car drives

)-but note that this in mainly "in theory". I have yet to have permission to set up the 10 gallon tank(assuming this is the most important)...unless I shift people around and make room. Its possible that I'll move the bluespots to the pond for the winter...lots of live food in there. However, I would like to bring them back in spring for spawning...so I cna have more control over conditions.

Currently all that I have empty would be 1 2-3 gallon "Critter Keeper" and a few misc sweater boxes that are probably 3-5 gallons. I think that would work for simply keeping a single pair(but I would need peat for eggs), but I think I would need more space to raise healthy juvies...right?


some species which are lookers in photos(and in my mind).

N. kafuensis...all of them seem pretty attractive, I'm imagining blue green fish with red patterning, but chunga with a fiery orange tail stands out.

N. rachovii: Nice looking, but sound more difficult than the rest 'Beira 98' in particular is common though.

N. eggersi: Hard to choose from these, but the blue forms are particularly nice.

N. kirki: AKA gallery has 2 nice photos of this notho

 

[Nflytrap]

By pure luck I ended up at Walmart and bought a bag of Canadian sphagnum peat today. Whoot!


This pic shows what looks like a quite old male of Kayuni State farm location-impressive to say the least-can I say halfmoon killifish?

http://www.bka.org.uk/graphics/intro8.jpg



And this should be Chunga-looks like a good foto to me!
http://dkg.killi.org/starthi....nga.jpg