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Death toll rising :(

This is a spin off from the Stjoes topic..

Ive been having massive deaths of whole groups of fish.. mostly goodied - however I have also lost swords....

Temps mid 70's
Filter - Sponge rated for twice the size of tank (and actually tonight I added an additional box filter to each problem tank)

I have taken a few pics of the dead fish - Maybe this will shed some light on the ....... well whatever is killing the fish..

These are dead Blue Helleri - Night before I found them like this they were fine and eating.. last meal was flakes and black worms (first time for black worms in 4 days..)
BLUESDEAD.jpg


These are 2 dead MALE Green swords - Only the males died - Females in same tank as well as Goodea Gracilis are fine.. Notice the red on the fish - most the deaths have had soemthing like this......
GreenSwordDEAD.jpg


Odd the Blues fungused within hours - But the Culture of Amacae I had never fungused over...

Any Ideas Guys?
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Thanks
 
Have you checked the ammonia concentration? Of course that may be a symptom, now, as opposed to the cause.
 
How long has the tank been set up?
 
My guess: Hmm, you say only the males died? The fins look pretty beat up on the fish in the second picture. Perhaps the males are fighting each other, maybe when you are not watching (at night probably). Separating the males might help.
Then the basics: How is the temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? Perhaps you have a record some time before the fish started dying. You may want to start quarantining any fish that are showing bad signs, if you are set up to do so. I've had pretty good success with antibacterial food as a first defense (Petsmart sells it online, sometimes at the stores--Jungle brand).
 
Hi Dustin,

Water chemistry is the first bet -- ammonia, nitrite, chlorine or pH or hardness rapid change.

Second potential problem -- blackworms. Blackworms need to be fed chopped as the adult whole worms can cause bloating and death and may even injure the stomach.

Dead females may have been caused from having too many fry and too big of fry inside due to the high protein worm diet.

Change water and fast for a day or 2. Chop all large worms. Feed veggies alot for a bit and bbs. Change water as often as possible for a while.

Sorry to hear about the loss.

Bobby
 
I didnt explain it all i guess ;) assuming ppl were watching other threads... sorry.. .

I bought alot of fish at a local convention - however my 72 tank fishroom was not ready.. so they sat in "temp" tanks - 2.5, 5.5 and 10 gal tanks for about 2 weeks. The tanks in the fishroom were setup and filtered with a sponge for about 5 days before the fish were moved from the temp tanks to the perminant tanks... species were not mixed (for the purist ;) )

Everyone was good for about 2 weeks and then all the sudden Im having mass deaths. Im ordering a Test Kit tonight from bigalsonline.

As far as the males sparing idea - that could be.. However no need to remove the or seperate them now.. they are all dead....... I lost a Whitie today.. Adding an carbon filter tonight.

I havent done water changes the way I should - Im still working on the 24/7 drip system - Time is short lately
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I did add some Aqua-sol to the tanks due to an ich scare upstairs and a slight fungus on 2 of the Toweri group.. Toweri are fungus free and healthy.. so im still not sure whats up.

Any other ideas with the new info?

Thanks!

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I'm thinking its possible your tanks haven't had the time to establish the beneficial bacteria populations so the fish are suffering.

This makes sense as the fish produce ammonia. With oo few bacteria in the tank ammonia will eventually build up. It eventually gets to the concentration required to severely affect the fish(this is why your fish were fine for 2 weeks).

I would concentrate on waterchanges. Certain meds will kill the bacteria and make the process slower. A test kit will let you know where in the nitrogen cycle you are if this is indeed what is happening. If you can spread fish thinly in the tanks you have that might also help. Plants would be useful now too.

Their is also a product on the market called "Bio-spira" by Marineland. It is supposed to contain the correct bacteria required for the nitrogen cycle underwater. I have not tried it but many claim that it works(do a search on messageboards. I remember a huge topic at fishgeeks-and maybe one at fishinthe.net) . Would be worth some looking into.


Sorry to hear about all this trouble. If indeed what I said is correct then when the bacteria establish themselves water conditions should return to normal. I wish I could write a more lengthy response but this should get you on track.

~Joseph
 
ANYONE WANT TO BUY A FISH ROOM!?  ALL BRAND NEW -
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Ive lost about 200 dollars worth of fish now and most my goal to go on...
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So around 9 this evening all the Albino Kribs were fine... And I thought to myself "at least the kribs are doing well.. wonder if its something just killing off the livebearers..."

well its 12:43 AM same day... 4 hrs.. and most the kribs are dead
smile_h_32.gif


I bought a veggy chopper and chopped up black worms - well seems they are still killing fish.. look at the stomachs - they are bloated looking
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 Im really disapointed here..

deadkrib1.jpg

deadkrib2.jpg

deadkrib3.jpg

deadkrib4.jpg

deadkrib5.jpg


Live Fish I moved to a fresh 10 gal -

LIVEKRIBS.jpg


The tank they were in... I dont have the water change done - every time i turne it on it leaks alot.. even at 1 lbs pressure - anyway I havent the time suddenly to do water changes as needed - some days i on ly have 30 mins total to feed fish, reply to email and goto bed.. Wasnt like this 2 weeks ago
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kribtank.jpg


Any Ideas?  I bought oversized sponge filters (as seen there) so water changes would be a mininum need.. since I knew I was goign to have alot less time when I ordered the filters....  Are songes worthless? Or are Blackworms just too dangerous?

Thanks  
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  • #10
I think, but am not positive, that reddened gills is indicative of ammonia poisoning.

Dumb question: How long have your sponges been in the tank? Is it possible that you are experiencing "New Tank Syndrome"?
 
  • #11
Sorry to hear of the losses.

I agree with the ammonia.

I go 4 to 5 weeks of cycling my tanks before I place any fish in mine. I place some flake food in the tank twice a week to get the cycle going.

Maybe this link will help:
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html
 
  • #13
You have to do the ammonia and nitrite measurements whenever cycling a new tank! The time it takes could vary, from weeks a few months depending on conditions. If you aren't familiar with cycling, I would spend some time reading up on it-it's such an important thing!
 
  • #14
I agree, amonia, you need to lay your hands on some Bio-Spyra now, that stuff is AWESOME.

Stop feeding the black worms for now, they are a messy food, and as you said, your not sure if they are contributing to your problem.

Are all your tanks plumbed together? if so, great, put a UV filter on to kill whatever is moving through your population, if not, that should be your next project.

Forgive me, but Sponge filters suck, they are only good for the person that has time to clean them, and do large water changes. A much more efficient system would be to plumb all the tanks together slap a UV filter in line, attatch them to a sump and install a POWERFUL canister filter on it, like an ocean clear, or a pond rated filter.

My two cents.
 
  • #15
Hi,

This is ammonia poisoning. You must do 95% water changes as often as possible, daily being best until the bio filtration kicks in. Don't give up, just go much much slower in the future and only expand as you have time to care for them. I think your excitement just got the best of you. Livebearers cannot stand ammonia and this is why they are actually harder to keep than egglayers. Most hard alkaline water fish are more sensitive to ammonia.

Bobby
 
  • #16
Alright - I think you are ALL Right -

I think unchopped blackworms killed a few of the smaller fish..
I think ammonia is killing off the fish as of right now. Interesting becuase in the temp tanks they had no filtration.... However I used water from my 125 gal (established going on 3 yrs)..

Im on a well system and it was cheaper for me to create a flow through system... so i drilled the tanks inserted a bulkhead and plumbed them to the sump pump...... I created a "drip" system with mini ball valves and just tonight got them (the tanks with fish) installed to work. I turned on the water valve slowly (our water psi is about 80 out here and if i turn it on full blast the whole system leaks and makes odd noises) and it seems to work great. I have a small steady stream to a fast drip in all tanks.

Before I turned on the drip I did a partial water change in each tank - Thanks to a BRAND NEW WON HEATER that is a dud, I have lost 2 more z. tequila because of water temp shock (i only have cold water to replace with at this time)... I think I have saved the other 2 in the tank though.

Now then, How often should I run this drip system? Or should it be left on most the time for awhile?

Bio-Spyra
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? Will it work with a drip system, or does it need to be in the tank without a flow through for a certain amount of time to work?

And Bobby you are right ;) I didnt have the fishroom done - however I was very close and thought I could pull it off. At this point im down about 260.00 worth of fish and counting.....

Thanks Again Everybody - any follow up thoughts?

Dustin
 
  • #17
Bio-Spyra is a bacterial culture... if I understand your flow through system right, then each tank has a water source dripping into it, and is draining at the same rate? this seems a little dangerous to me, like a flood in the making... if that is how you are doing it, then you will need to put Bio Spyra in each tank, which is probably to expensive, it averages 10 bucks a packet.

If you have all the tanks hooked together and they are draining to a common sump, and the sump then drains to the world, then that is a much better setup if you ask me. In that case, you simply put the bio-spira in the very first tank in the loop and let the bacteria flow through the system.
 
  • #18
I feel like such a newbie haha - Ive never had to contend with this many tanks at once.
confused.gif


Actually they all have a 1/8 inch water input and a 3/4 inch overflow.. which flows through a 3/4 inch flex hose into a 2 inch pvc tree that flows into a 50 gallon sump... Ive had 0 probs - i tested it by running 3/4 inch main line directly into each "branch" of the pvc tree.. works prefect.

It was much more efficent for me to do this instead of a flow through closed curcuit system. Ive read many killi folks are using these types of drip systems now.
 
  • #19
Using old water from an existing tank does not help you out with the cycling process.
To seed a new tank you would need the filter floss or gravel from the old tank placed in the new tank. This would have helped to jump start the cycling of the new tanks, but you are still looking at about a 4 week wait time till it gets established.
Around 2 weeks is when the ammonia spike hits, then shortly afterwards the nitrite will spike. Then it is safe to place fish in the tanks.
 
  • #20
[b said:
Quote[/b] (elgecko @ May 06 2005,1:28)]Using old water from an existing tank does not help you out with the cycling process.
actually it does..just not as fast as taking gravel or something with real surface area..
but water will contain enough bacteria to colonize the new tank..just slowly.
I agree a handfull of gravel from an established tank is much better..but if water is all you have, its better than nothing..

I would run the drip system 24/7.
that will keep everything nice and stable.
turning the drip on and off could result in fluctuating water conditions, best to just keep it running all the time.
but make sure its not TOO much water dripping in!
you want a slow steady drip, so that the heaters wont have any problems keeping up with the cold water dripping in.
I was dripping 12 gallons a day into my 40 gallon discus tank, approx 25% water change every day.

(actually less than 25%..because "new" and "old" water drains out..not just "old"..I never bothered to try to figure out the real percent..I just knew that 12 gallons of new water a day was more then sufficient..)

it was 12 gallons a day only because the dripper nozzle was rated for 1/2 gallon an hour..I could have actually used much less.
5 gallons a day would have been fine.
If you are dripping in anywhere between 10% and 25% of the tank volume a day thats plenty.

here is how I did mine..

http://www.geocities.com/scottychaos/discuspage.htm

Scot
 
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