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Gn. zonatus

B

biggun110

Hi,

Well, at least 30+ Gn. zonatus Finca fry hatched out on the first wetting after 5 months of incubation. Now two of us have stock of this rare location. These will get my full attention as I want this location to finally get established. Knock on wood, they all do well and that the peat has even larger hatches in store after another month.

Bobby
 
Awesome! Funny how the fish can surprise you....did you see any eggs in the peat?

Good luck and please keep us updated.

Also, what makes zonatus one of the more challenging killies?
 
Hi N,

Nope, didn't see an egg one. Zonatus is challenging as it requires work outside the normal killie patterns. It needs a big tank -- 20 gallon high at least. It is a true diver so it needs deep peat -- 6-8 inches. It needs heat -- 80-84F. The eggs have to be incubated at 82F so that they will hatch on time and not rest or die. They need live foods like fruit flies and worms. They also need veggie flakes as they like plant material. They are a bit odd but well worth it as they possess an awesome grace and spectacular beauty in the 5 inch size! One of nature's perfect creations. A little other-worldly -- not unlike the great dolichopterus. Now Gn. hoignei is even trickier and the eggs take 6-7 months to hatch at 80-82F. What is weird is that the zonatus body is hard and the hoignei body is so soft to the touch. Totally different. Then hoignei with those 2 inch streamers off each ray of the caudal fin -- mindblowing.

Bobby
 
I've seen many pictures but most appear not to represent the best of the fish. In the photos showing mature males the fins look larger than those on an artificially done veil tail betta! Not to mention the streamers which perhaps could be equivalent to a "crown tail" betta. Perhaps they'd ought to be dubbed "king of the SAA". Seems like they must live in some kind of rainforest pools to get those kind of temperatures. How many people keep these species with the less than typical requirements? Are the Pterolebias similar? They look rather similar in looks.

~Joseph
 
Hi N,

Gnatholebias used to be in Pterolebias until all the genus spliting of the late 1990's. They are considered the King of the SAA's -- along with the amazing Gn. hoignei and T. dolichopterus. The zonatus come from the llanos which are open plains area in Venezuela so the temps can get pretty high. 78F is the lowest and temps approaching 90 are common. Hoignei usually comes from shadier habitats in the area. A perfect male of either species is truly majestic, easily rivaling a male blue gularis. The photos rarely capture the electric blue/green body of a good zonatus -- not to mention their regal swimming and spawning behavior. The streamers on zonatus are on the top 5 rays of the caudal but on hoignei they are on every caudal ray and extend 2 inches. These are very peaceful fish with the males hardly botehring the females during breeding. I love them. They and Callopanchax species are my favorite killies. The fry at 3 weeks are between 1/2 and one inch. Time to go into a 30 gallon. I hope I get a balanced sex ratio.

Sadly, I think most people keep Gnatholebias like other killies which is why they are so rare. They are not that difficult if you do it their way.

Bobby
 
Hi,

I transferred 34 one inch zonatus fry to their 30 gallon tank today. They are looking good. Now if the sex ratio will just go well. How are all the fish Dustin? Any more fry? Have the gardneri given you eggs yet Joseph? With the hurricane I thinned everything down to breeders and a next generation of breeders in case the power went. I have very empty tanks now. Oh, wll, it's best for the upcoming move.

Bobby

Bobby
 
Hello Bobby,

Hopefully the zonatus come out well for ya.
smile.gif
The gardneri have indeed been laying eggs like crazy but I have not yet removed any. The splendopleure are also doing well and I've got maybe 3-4 young pairs growing up plus a few juveniles. The Elassoma fry are growing and more are appearing so hopefully I get a nice batch for next year. Jordanella are also growing...though they are growing fast! The adults are laying even more eggs. I got a trade from someone in Singapore exchanging a few of these eggs for some Taiwan moss. I'm curious if these eggs will survive the trip...he claims he's sent out moss which contained eggs of Oryzias and had them hatch when sent in the manner he instructed me.

How many species are you currently keeping now that you have trimmed them down a bit?
~Joseph
 
Hi N,

You'll get gardneri fry in the parents' tank if there are enough plants. Gardneri were the first killies I successfully bred and the fry just appeared in the tank. Good to hear that the pygmies are doing well for you. I hope the trade goes well. What is Taiwan Moss?

I have my monty cross, the nezzies, the Phalloceros, the orange pictas, the zonatus, the calabarica, arnoldi, hi fin lyretail swords, helleri x monty hybrids, blue gularis, velifera and kykesis (petenensis). Everything is down to breeders. The mollies will soon go to Florida and the swords to Colorado. The killies will be distributed here. The guy in CO originally gave me my nezzies so we want to cross the 2 strains that are now probably 10-15 generations apart.

Bobby
 
Hi Bobby,

This is Taiwan Moss. Its interesting stuff and even amongst the java moss you can tell which fronds are which immediately. They are more triangular shape and branch off in a more orderly fashion than java moss does. He sent me a good amount so I'm thinking of finding a way to produce a lot of it. I think when grown in it will look nicer than java moss when tied to wood.

http://www.killies.com/images/TaiwanMoss01.JPG

I will keep my eyes open on fry from the gardneri. They have plants in the little tank but also a yarn spawning mop that I made. Kind of amusing that when I put it in both fish began to inspect it excitedly and shortly afterward began to spawn.


At about 2 weeks now...how big are these zonatus? When will they begin to sex out?
When you are sending the fish out, are you basically leaving them in the care of others and they will send you back some later?

The weather is cooling off over here. I may be bringing those Jordanella adults back inside sometime soon.

Have you experimented with raising fish outside recently? I found something interest with the Jordanella. I was pouring a batch of fry into an outdoor tub and when I was done I realized I had maybe ten fry stuck at the bottom of the bucket. I added in some water and decided to drop them into this big jar of putrid greenwater that had been brewing on the patio for a week or so. It turned out that the flags inside this smelly mess grew much faster than fry by all other methods(inside with daily water changes and BBs, outside in a tub...etc.) Ironically the ones that I carefully emptied into the tub suffered huge losses from yet more hidden damselflies(!) and they are almost all gone now. I still have more fry than I quite know what to do with and I've popped an ad up onto killitrader in case anyone wants any Jordanella eggs.

~Joseph
 
  • #10
Hi N,

The zonatus started sexing out at 3 weeks at one inch. Some are well over an inch now. A few are still not quite one or the other sex. I think I have a good number of females. They are so cute. Hopefully, those who get breeders will breed and then send me eggs or fish later.

Bobby
 
  • #11
Hey Bobby,

Sorry bout the long absence. I'm pretty sure things must have changed by now. Have those little zonatus sexed out yet?

Not much has been happening as of now. Did bring the Jordanella back inside. Also, when was the last time you kept nigripinnis? Along with the gardneri I got some of Dougs Aust. nigripinnis 'Villa Soriano'. I've heard quite a bit of conflicting info on them...particularly hatching/incubation temps. I'm currently keeping them at 75 with the Notho eggs. People generally reccomend usually cold water to hatch them...but a few say it isn't really necessary. According to Lee Van Hyfte they probably aren't quite cold hardy enough to stand the cold here(40 degrees). I may give it a shot with 1 or two fry if things go very well.

The monty colony looks like it will bounce back after the episode with the SJO. Noticed at least 1 juvenile in their and I expect the females will deliver some more.

~Joseph
 
  • #13
Hi Nflytrap,

The zonatus are all sexed out and it looks like around 10 solid pairs. Interestingly, this batch has all males with black lined anals; whereas, the population always threw both black and orange lined anals. The breeders were both types. I wonder if these will threw orange fish. They all look great.

I'd check with the Argentine hobbyists on the Cynolebias group on Yahoo. They know the nigripinnis habitats and temps. Just sign up and post. I don't think cold water is necessary for hatching but maybe cool - 68F. I did find that nigripinnis will turn into bellysliders at 6 weeks of age at times and I think in my case it had to do with heat. SA hobbyists always talk about 40F weather in Argentina.

That paradise fish is a great one and is related to the black paradise fish but it is not ocellatus. That seller is also one of the great all time hobbyists and a master killie breeder.

Bobby
 
  • #14
Hey Bobby,

Congrats on the zonatus! When these more tasking killies get to spawning, are they prolific? Also, what diet are you feeding them?(and would you feed other SAA). I hear they are very prone to bloat from too much rich food.

I will look around for that group on Yahoo. If they can't take those temps(wonder if it may vary based on location) then I'll be raising them inside...but still no heater.

That guy indeed does seem to be a master killifish breeder to say the least...and also he takes great photos! Seems to have a taste for rare anabantoids too.

Will be posting up a new thread to update on some fish which have not received much limelight recently.
 
  • #15
Hi N,

  Well, I wish I had my daphnia, grindals, flies and microworms for the zonatus but they have to make do with live BBS, adult brine shrimp, freeze-dried bloodworms and frozen bloodworms. I will be distributing them all soon and will inform the people to get the other food in their diet as bloodworms and blackworms overfed and unchopped due most certainly cause bloat/dropsey in SAA's. I try to feed those only as conditioning foods once the fry stop growing and then for only a week or so at a time. Daphnia, BS and fruit flies are great foods for avoiding bloat and the worms are good for conditioning. Keep SAA's clean especially when using peat -- no old water and skipped water changes and no filter-less tanks. It looks like I have at least 10 pair of the zonatus -- maybe 12. That's about 2 to 1 males which is good for them. They are gorgoreous over all the java moss with their electric blue green bodies and huge fins at attention. I love them and have for 35 years now.

The Cynolebias group is great. read all the archives -- intense information. Google Cynolebias or South American Annuals and you'll find it fast. Great stuff.

Bobby
 
  • #16
I'm thinking of setting up either Daphnia or fruitflies for the SAA/Nothos soon. Wormwise(rich foods) I've got it covered as the redworms are producing incredibly well and blackworms are easy to get here. Still experimenting with hatching BBS but I am definetly getting better hatches than I used to. It is now less than a month to the hatching time for the Aust. nigripinnis. Will be getting containers ready.

I haven't been able to find the SAA group on Yahoo...I think it is probably a private group to keep out spammers. How would you get in to take a peek?

Great news on the zonatus! Hopefully the other people who get them have the success you have had and are able to distribute them.
 
  • #17
Ok, the bag of nigripinnis(well half of it) is in the water and I have at least 4 fry up in the water column.

The written hatch date is still a while away but based on some discussion at www.killies.com I felt that 2 months at the conditions I was keeping them with may have been it. I think it was a good call as lots of fry have hatched out. Funny that I could find maybe only one egg carefully searching the peat but when the peat was placed into the water I realized their were quite a few. Also some clear eggs so I will be rebagging it up.


DSCN3019.jpg

Here are two less than an hour old.

DSCN3025.jpg

One that looks like it emerged incorrectly(headfirst). Normally the fry would kick out using the tail. I observed this one for a long time and it appeared unable to get out if the egg.

I used the more normal method of simply putting the peat into the container and then I will later remove the fry. I was thinking that perhaps having to dig up through a thick layer of peat would stress the fry.
 
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