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The immigration issue -- my $0.02

  • #41
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]i dont know if anyone knows but i wasnt born here in the US. im not even a citizen, just a perm. res.

*highfive* We need to start an immigrants of TF club.
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I'm a first generation, too. (And no, we didn't hop the Berlin wall.
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)
 
  • #42
[b said:
Quote[/b] (rattler_mt @ May 02 2006,3:06)]the "native americans" came from Asia originally and are also immigrants.
Yes, but they were the first humans to populate the land, and didn't displace an existing human population.
 
  • #43
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Mokele @ May 02 2006,6:30)]and us burning down Washington DC,
heh.  And we STILL owe you a butt-kicking for that.    
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  • #44
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dr. Frank Lyons @ May 02 2006,7:30)]I had a petient at a car manufacturing plnat tell methat they were forced to trained illegals and then were laid off because the company could pay the illegals less.
Then a competent lawyer should be able to get him a fat settlement from the company in question. Not to mention the incredibly negative publicity they would get when the laid off american workers go to the media about the story.

This patient did this, i assume?

If not, why the heck not?
 
  • #45
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tropics @ May 02 2006,8:13)]Does anyone who wants to deport all illegal immigrants and build a secure barrier between the U.S. and Mexico have an estimate of the costs involved?
If we do that, we'd better build the barrier BEFORE we deport them... >;-D
 
  • #46
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ May 03 2006,12:58)]Afterall there is no official language of the U.S. and to say that they have to learn english is just saying that you're too lazy to learn a 2nd language yourself.
I disagree.

True, there's no official language, but i feel the onus is on the guest to learn the prevailing language of the land.
 
  • #47
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ May 03 2006,12:58)]Just my $.02.  Somehow Mexico needs to be burdened for their citizens crossing the border.  Right now the gov't could careless, if they were being fined left and right I'm sure they would help us create a more solid border.
I think, if practical, that would be a good idea. I seem to recall hearing that Mexico was, in fact, ENCOURAGING its citizens to cross illegally.

It is in its own interest to do so... as their people work here, and send the money back home, it only enriches the Mexican economy.
 
  • #48
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Instead of saying that they should learn and be able to speak clear english, we should be looking at the employers and saying: You shouldn't hire people who can't speak english.

How is that in any way different from saying "you should learn english"? All you're saying is "you should learn english or nobody will hire you". Regardless of whether the impetus is out of desire to fit in or need of a job, both situations present pressure on the individual to learn english (which is as it should be).

So, how does this in any way support your prior claim that "to say that they have to learn english is just saying that you're too lazy to learn a 2nd language yourself."?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Yes, but they were the first humans to populate the land, and didn't displace an existing human population.

Nope, just wiped out a huge portion of the ecosystem.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]True, there's no official language, but i feel the onus is on the guest to learn the prevailing language of the land.

Beyond simple courtesy, there's financial incentive; if you know english well, you possible job market is vastly increased.

Mokele
 
  • #49
[b said:
Quote[/b] (SarraceniaScott @ May 04 2006,1:32)]
It is in its own interest to do so... as their people work here, and send the money back home, it only enriches the Mexican economy.
it will NEVER be as rich as here in the US no matter how many immigrants cross.
 
  • #50
[b said:
Quote[/b] (SarraceniaScott @ May 03 2006,2:03)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (rattler_mt @ May 02 2006,3:06)]the "native americans" came from Asia originally and are also immigrants.
Yes, but they were the first humans to populate the land, and didn't displace an existing human population.
your point, they moved cause they were being displaced they just happened to find a chunck of fresh real estate before every one else just like anywhere else in the world.

how many times were the ppl of Britain displaced? i know my ansestors made a habit of ransacking them and putting them on the run every so often.......put the Romans on the run too
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  • #51
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If we see a huge hypothetical surge of immigration from Quebec, should we all be forced to learn French too?

THat would be common sense if you ask me. I know French, do I use it no, but it sure is handy being less that 5 miles away from the Canadian border.

The only reason one should learn a second language is to understand theirs better.

JB orchid guy is a saint.
 
  • #52
But if you take that to the logical conclusion, everyone should be fluent in English, Spanish, French, Chinese (at least Mandarin and Cantonese), Gaelic, German, Norwegian, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai, Hindi, Italian, and Dutch, since speakers of all of those have come over here in decent numbers. And many more. It gets ridiculous, and any cutoff mark for what to learn is entirely abritrary. You can't learn all languages.

To me, it makes much, much more sense to simply speak the local predominant language. When in Rome, do as the romans. That means when in a foreign country, have the decency to bring a phrasebook at the very least. And when moving, learn the language. If I were moving to Borneo (I wish), I'd learn the local language, not expect everyone to learn mine.

Mokele
 
  • #53
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Mokele @ May 03 2006,10:29)]But if you take that to the logical conclusion, everyone should be fluent in English, Spanish, French, Chinese (at least Mandarin and Cantonese), Gaelic, German, Norwegian, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai, Hindi, Italian, and Dutch, since speakers of all of those have come over here in decent numbers.  And many more.  It gets ridiculous, and any cutoff mark for what to learn is entirely abritrary.  You can't learn all languages.

To me, it makes much, much more sense to simply speak the local predominant language.  When in Rome, do as the romans.  That means when in a foreign country, have the decency to bring a phrasebook at the very least.  And when moving, learn the language.  If I were moving to Borneo (I wish), I'd learn the local language, not expect everyone to learn mine.

Mokele
I agree completely. Immigrants should speak the main language of the country they are in.
dewy
 
  • #54
They don't have to though when employers hire them regardless.
 
  • #55
the whole problem of illegal immigration could be solved if immigration laws were enforced, i.e., it is ILLEGAL to hire illegal immigrants. If businesses were heavily fined for hiring them, they wouldn't hire them. But our wonderful business community LOVES illegal aliens because they don't have to pay them minimum wage or benefits.

If companies couldn't hire illegal immigrants....there'd be no reason for them to come here because they couldn't get jobs.

The idea that 'they take the jobs americans don't want' doesn't wash. The idea that the US economy couldn't function without illegal immigrants is a load.
 
  • #57
You know, someone said earlier that it would cost too much to deport them. Don't know about anyone else, but I thought the recent rallies of illegals would have solved that problem. Here they are, all in one spot. Send in the paddy waggons. Buh-bye.

My inlaws emigrated from Italy in their 20's - one with a 2nd grade and the other with an 8th grade education. They learned English well enough to function here - it's broken, but they can communicate. They can also understand English just fine, even if it comes out choppy. That's all we ask.

And go through the proper channels, or go home. Don't give me the "it's too hard to get in" routine. Ever think we might allow more LEGALS in if there weren't so darn many illegals?
 
  • #58
A good friend of mine is an immigrant from Mexico, but he is a legal immigrant. The thing that bothers me are illegal immigrants, there are means to get in this country and become a citizen legally, but they choose not to follow them. Then the government wants to pass a law that will make illegal immigrants that are here legal... That is rewarding someone for breaking the law, hence the word ILLEGAL. What next, badges of honor for murderers? (Sorry the political system irritates me sometimes.)

As for the language issue. If I were to travel to Japan, I would do my best to at least learn the basics of the Japanese language. It's just a common sense issue, and shows respect for their culture. It wouldn't take my culture away, or lessen it. So please at least put in the effort to try to learn our national language if you come here. I'm not saying you have to poet laurate, or even half decent, just make the effort.

I won't get into the business side of it, because I'd be n my soap box all day about the problems with businesses in the US.

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  • #59
[b said:
Quote[/b] (fc3srx713b @ May 03 2006,5:32)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (SarraceniaScott @ May 04 2006,1:32)]
It is in its own interest to do so... as their people work here, and send the money back home, it only enriches the Mexican economy.
it will NEVER be as rich as here in the US no matter how many immigrants cross.
True, the first thing Mexico needs to do is wipe out its culture of corruption.

Not to say there's no corruption here (*ahem* Enron), but it is generally vigorously prosecuted when it is discovered here, and is at a level low enough that it doesn't seriously stunt the economy. In Mexico, it's a kleptocracy. They will never make their economic pie higher (heh heh... thanks, Bush, for that phrase) unless they can weed out the corruption.
 
  • #60
[b said:
Quote[/b] (rattler_mt @ May 03 2006,7:50)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (SarraceniaScott @ May 03 2006,2:03)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (rattler_mt @ May 02 2006,3:06)]the "native americans" came from Asia originally and are also immigrants.
Yes, but they were the first humans to populate the land, and didn't displace an existing human population.
your point, they moved cause they were being displaced they just happened to find a chunck of fresh real estate before every one else just like anywhere else in the world.
20,000 years ago, they were not likely being displaced by another human population. They were migrant tribes, following game.
 
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