What's new
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The immigration issue -- my $0.02

  • #61
[b said:
Quote[/b] (rattler_mt @ May 03 2006,7:50)]how many times were the ppl of Britain displaced? i know my ansestors made a habit of ransacking them and putting them on the run every so often.......put the Romans on the run too
smile_n_32.gif
You Vandal!
 
  • #62
OK, after reading the replies, I have a further $0.02:

* I agree the US economy could function just fine without illegals. I also agree that heavily penalizing employers who knowingly hire illegals is a good idea. I may be a bit of a hypocrite for saying that, though, as I've never asked my gardener to produce evidence of citizenship or legal residence status.

* I am concerned that attempting to eliminate benefits for illegals will also hurt our own poorer citizens. However, I am opposed to governmental assistance that is a mere handout. I believe any assistance (other than emergency relief) should consist of providing the means to help oneself. To take advantage of the tax dollars, you'd actually have to get off your butt and do something for yourself.

* Attempting to deny education to immigrants would probably only create a more sophisticated black market in forged papers. However, if there were evidence that denying education to them would cause them at least to leave the kids back at home, in the care of other family members, then I'd be in favor of it.

* More border enforcement would certainly drop the number of people crossing, but i am unsure how expensive it would be to do so to a point where the illegal crossing became manageable.

* Perhaps we could try running a public education campaign on Mexican TV where we explain how legally to become a US resident? However, as hard as it is for, e.g., an educated Canadian to get legal permission to work here, I imagine it would be much tougher for a poorly educated Mexican (or anybody else, for that matter) to be allowed to immigrate legally.
 
  • #63
migrating tribes displace other migrating tribes in the competition for food. this is how the whole world was populated. i think its idiotic to say the Native Americans have a divine claim to this country. more and more evidance is popping up that they were not the only group of ppl to have come to the new world well before Columbus. most archeologists are starting to believe there were actually several major migrations of even just the "native americans" so which tribes than have first dibs? this is a part of the natural order of things and has happened millions of times with millions of species and is still happening now with the illegals crossing th border. its the same thing.
 
  • #64
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You Vandal!

hey i said twors the begining of this thread im proud of my heritage
smile_n_32.gif
 
  • #65
Let's just change to one big global community so that no one can be an immigrant... well, maybe the extraterrestrials (sp?)....

I heard on a news program today that Mexico has strict immigration policies, and that any who is found to be an illegal immigrant to Mexico is immediately arrested and deported, and that immigrants to Mexic of any kind are not permitted to participate in political protests. Anyone know anything about that?
 
  • #66
lol Mexico does have quite strict immigration laws. what you quote does sound like what i knew last.
 
  • #67
I don't understand why a country has to open its borders to businesses, but is free to exclude people.
 
  • #68
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] they want to assimilate into the USA and become American citizens WTF are they doing waving the Mexican flag

I completely agree with you.

I cant see the fence thing as practical, as many many miles of our border are uninhabited desert. once the fence is built, who's checking and how frequently on it? i mean, if i was them id just make a dirt ramp over the wall in a desolate area nobody checked on. Or blow it up. And dont think the human smugglers wouldnt do it, anything for money.

I live in an area that is far from the border, and very very few immigrents are drawn here, so i cant say a thing about how they act once they get here but i do know that they should learn english to be moe eisily assimilated to our society.
 
  • #69
They should just dig a huge ditch like thing across the whole border
smile_l_32.gif
.
 
  • #70
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ May 04 2006,11:41)]They should just dig a huge ditch like thing across the whole border  
smile_l_32.gif
.
and fill it with flaming oil?
smile_n_32.gif
 
  • #71
My library has a new book about the subject - Translation nation: defining a new American identity in the Spanish-speaking United States, by Héctor Tobar.  The library's catalog description says, "Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Hector Tobar takes readers on the definitive tour of the Spanish-speaking United States--a parallel nation, 35 million strong, that is changing the very notion of what it means to be an American in unprecedented and unexpected ways."  If you want an anti-immigrant perspective, keep listening to Fox.  But if you want another perspective, this one's a good source.
 
  • #72
[b said:
Quote[/b] (SarraceniaScott @ May 05 2006,12:25)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ May 04 2006,11:41)]They should just dig a huge ditch like thing across the whole border  
smile_l_32.gif
.
and fill it with flaming oil?  
smile_n_32.gif
No one uses flaming oil anymore... too expensive. They've gone back to the moats with crocodiles.

One could really say immigration in general is releative... I've got an image in my head of two native americans complaining about the immigrants that keep coming over from England.
 
  • #73
we don't need a stronger wall, we just need enforcement of the laws on the books.

if you cross the border illegally you are a criminal.

If you hire an illegal immigrant you are a criminal. plain and simple.

If they actually persecuted the people hiring illegals, then there would be no illegal immigration.

They say that americans won't do the jobs illegals will do? well guess what I do? one of them jobs. guess who I have to bid against? illegal immigrants that will do the job for nothing.

How am I supposed to make a living?

I agree with the rich people that can afford maids and childcare. if illegals cleaned my house and watched my kids, and made my bed, I wouldn't have a problem with them either!. lol
They compete directly for my work, and keep my wages down. So I have to work at the same rate you can pay an illegal with the threat of deportment hanging over his head.

the sooner ALL the criminals are prosecuted, the sooner I may be able to make a living wage.

my 2 cents
 
  • #74
The reason Mexicans migrate here is to find a better life.  Most Mexican cities, including Mexico City, have few jobs, appalling living conditions, violence and robbery are rampant and their civil servants and police are totally corrupt.
Why aren't they marching in the streets of Mexico to protest the conditions there?
Why are they marching in the streets of the U.S.?
What exactly are they protesting?
I mean, what part of “illegal” do they not understand?
They get treated a whole bunch better here.

I do not blame them crossing the border to try to find a better life...and they will continue doing so until we set up a better guest worker program that checks their background and allows them to work here legally.  Legal immigration…Yes.  Illegal immigration…No.
Solution?
-Close the borders…tight.
-Allow our local LEOs to ask for documentation and to send illegals directly to I.C.E. for deportation.
-The Illegals already here should be given six months to register, then sent back to their country of origin where they can reapply for legal entry as guest workers after a thorough back round check.
-As guest workers they would then have the legal right work here while waiting their turn to apply for citizenship just like all other would be immigrants.
The most effective deterrent of all?
-Fines and JAIL time for American business’s that hire undocumented workers.

I spent a lot of time in Central and South America.   Like the other contractors I worked with, I know how to take care of myself, but Nuevo Laredo and other border towns, including some Canadian cities, are not places I would want to be…unless of course, they pay a lot to hunt down the bad guys.
 
  • #75
We're destroying the lives of people around the world with our NAFTA, WTO, IMF and other combinations of letters.  I sometimes wonder about NASCAR too.

Remember the Pottery Barn rule: You break it, you buy it.  It's perfectly reasonable for people from the places we've devastated to want to come here and get some of what we've taken away.  We can't hold them back with anything less than deadly force.  And anyone who'd advocate that is a fool.  Totalitarian nations begin by directing their malevolence on the "others" in society, but they eventually turn on everyone.
 
  • #76
As long as you have such a large social divide between two adjacent countries you WILL ALWAYS have illegal immigration. The reason the USA doesn't have tons of illegal Canadian immigrants is because the two societies have similar standards of living. Mexicans however, have a better chance of survival in the USA even if they don't get a job. Illegal's have come from an area full of rampant violence, poverty and primitive medicine. Even without a job, illegal's can survive in an area as wasteful as the United States. There is some extent of law and order, more food that is easy to steal, and a medical system that doesn't discriminate. The only solution to this problem lies in raising the standard of living in Mexico or lowering the standard of living in the States.

As was said before, starving people are not going to be kept out by ANY border, flaming oil-covered-crocodiles and all
smile_n_32.gif
. The fact that companies hire these illegal immigrants is also going to be near impossible to stop. The logistics related to making sure every person in every company is working illegally are unrealistic.

And as far as the language debate is concerned, I agree with what was said before. You can't make the first generation learn your language but if they plan on hanging around for a few generations their children will definately become fluent.

Whoever said the thing about making a living wage...I'd like you to explain what a living wage is and why you deserve one more then any of the hundreds of immigrants who could probably sustain 5 human lives on what you consider a "living" wage.

My 2 cents,

Zac
 
  • #77
Missed your post Bruce. Well said. Globalism is going to shi*. The end of NAFTA, WTO, IMF are on the way. Interesting theory about the growing totalitarian nation...

Zac
 
  • #78
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Whoever said the thing about making a living wage...I'd like you to explain what a living wage is and why you deserve one more then any of the hundreds of immigrants who could probably sustain 5 human lives on what you consider a "living" wage.

Hi Zac,
whats a living wage?. enough to pay for rent, a dependable car, and food ,where I live and work in the SF bay area.. that's it... no savings, no retirement, no medical insurance, no mortgage.

I'm not saying I deserve a living wage more than an other immigrant...we are all immigrants, and we all deserve a living wage... I said ILLEGAL immigrant.

I am blaming the agricultural, hospitality, and construction businesses that hire them.

I blame the mexican govt for supporting the illegal immigration.

I blame our govt for turning a blind eye to the whole situation.

I seriously doubt our govt has the desire to do anything about the situation. those politicians would hate to have to wash there own car, or pay a real wage to have an american citizen do it.  So don't worry, the border will remain open, and I expect all the illegals to get amnesty.

Nothing personal here guys. I'm just tired of hearing the the line "they do the jobs that americans are not willing to do"... Pay at least a living wage, and americans will do it.

robin
 
  • #79
In hindsight I realise that may have been a little harsh robin, I apologise. I was actually talking about illegal immigrants there. An illegal immigrants idea of a living wage would most likely be enough for food and water, I doubt they even think about buying cars and they only rent the cheapest of apartments. There are no alternatives for an illegal immigrant. Once denied, by the immigration system they are left with no other options really.
 
  • #80
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]There are no alternatives for an illegal immigrant. Once denied, by the immigration system they are left with no other options really.

Yes, they do have other options. It's called staying home and not breaking the law by tresspassing on another country.

Remember, they came *illegally*; the government has no obligation beyond sending them back.

And furthermore, by breaking the law, they're putting *themselves* in a situation where they can be exploited and paid pathetic wages by greedy employers. If they immigrated legally, they'd have the same minimum wage laws as everyone else, and would find themselves much better off and less vulnerable to exploitation. Everyone would be better off.

Mokele
 
Back
Top