[b said:
Quote[/b] ]1a vagens live longer
I'd like to see some statistics to back this up.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]1b my vegan great grandmother lived to 98, she outlived all but two of her six child family
Annecdotal evidence is worthless. You cannot prove squat from a single case, which may have just been an anomaly.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]2a countries with high vegan populations are the most fit
That's because they're third-world countries where few people can afford meat and where most people spend all day subsistence farming. 12 hours a day of back-breaking labor makes you fit no matter what you eat.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]2b I dont think i have ever seen a fat vegan
Yes, that's called long-term protien deficiency. It's why even Buddhist monks are *not* vegan or vegetarian.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]3 companies dont care about animal feelings
Factually incorrect; a great deal of effort goes into finding the fastest, most humane was to euthanize animals. There is *copious* regulation for animal welfare in *all* situations; I know, I have to deal with them.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]4 companies rather expand than buy pain killers
Um, what? Have you forgotten that these animals are made into *FOOD*?
I like to season my steak a lot of ways, but I draw the line at sodium pentabarbital.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]5 companies rather buy growth harmones and steroids than painkillers
See above about the painkillers. And, unlike painkillers, such hormones tend to break down when cooked.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]There are no magical nutriences that can only be found in meats
Wrong: Vitamin B12 Without it, your kidneys stop working, and you develop neuropathological symptoms like permanent nerve cell death. It is *ONLY* found in meat from herbivores (being originally produced by bacteria).
And that Spirula stuff? Worthless, it's not real B-12, and is not metabolically active in humans.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]6 protien deficiency is extremely rare
Wrong. It's very common, but rare in the western world. Most people eat what they farm, and cannot just get 80 different fruits and veggies from the local supermarket.
In fact, protien deficiency is the *specific* reason one of the Dali Lamas signed an edict allowing Buddhist monks to eat meat.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]7 cholestorole is produced in an organ in your body
Meat does not automatically mean high cholesterol. Ever had turkey or chicken?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]8 we get too much calcium, dairy companies pay those idiots in congress to higher the recomended calcuim intake for adults.
Show me clinical evidence that we get too much calcium. From a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Then explain why osteoporosis is such a problem in old people.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]THE ANIMALS WERE HERE FIRST!
And what are we, rocks? We're a type of animal, like any other. Our brains are a trivial difference.
Also, does that mean I can kill all mammals, so that reptiles may once again rule? After all, they were here first.
Who was here first is astonishingly shabby logic, and I'll just pretend I didn't hear it to save future embarassment.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]one thing i would like to see is the ENTIRE food production industry become more sustainable. maybe not organic, maybe not perfect, but more sustainable. the fishing industry bothers me more than most... the damage done to ocean life and habitats in the past century or so makes Amazon logging look tame. and the extinction that comes with taking too much wild food is permanent.
There've been great leaps and bounds of progress in those areas lately, you'll be glad to know. Fish farming is becoming an economically viable and even profitable optian, and new greenhouse technology (positive pressure and hydroponics, along with the use of pest predators) may eliminate the need for open fields and herbicides/pesticides. Slowly but surely, we're moving to more sustainable ways.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Our own evolution is the product of an omnivorous diet
Actually, there's more to it than that: one of the more widely-held and better-supported theories concerning human origins holds that our brains were *only* able to evolve because we either scavenged lion kills or beachcombed for shellfish.
Without meat, we'd be just another dumb ape.
--------------------------------
Of course, this leaves the entire ethical/philosophical area untouched, and that could be fun, given how the entire ethical basis of veganism is based on unsupportable and useless assumptions. But I guess that's for dessert.
Mokele