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Pouching CPs in North Carolina

  • #21
Please don't take this wrong, but you are truly ignorant of plant or animal biology. Under your theory, since we have plenty of elephants, and tigers in zoos, who cares if they are all poached from the wild. We will still be able to go see them anytime we want. Who cares if all the dolphins die out, sea world has plenty of them.

Now let me tackle you example of you reproducing with a black chick. Reproducing the genetic clones, like tissue culture vft's, are more like you reproducing with your sister. I think we all know that the offspring will have a high chance of having some genetic defects. Now say all your and your sisters offspring reproduce with only siblings and cousins. I don't know what the effects will be, but I'm sure the offspring would have a high mortality rate and some very serious birth defects. Pretty soon your genes wouldn't die out and not be passed on into the future. Same thing with plants. If you keep cross breeding the same genetic material, each offspring will be weaker and weaker.

I think your position on removing plants from the wild is the biggest flaw in humans. The only think we care about is making money, and to climb the social ladder. I got to have more than my neighbor has. The more we take from the earth, the sooner mother nature will end our rein on here.

Every plant and animal has it's place on this earth, and it's not in a zoos cage nor in a pot on your widow sill. We are so conceited to think vft's are ours to take. They belong where they have grown for thousands if not millions of years and that's around the Carolina bays in North and South Carolina., You need to realize they are not dying out, they are growing and thriving in the area they belong. The problem is that so many people from Ohio, New York and New Jersey what to have a winter home on the same land that belongs to the native plants and animals that was here way before we were.
 
  • #22
Wow BCK, I think we both are trying to say the same thing.
 
  • #23
Well, CCFC, I have to agree with BCK and Ozzy. There value is greater than silver or gold. Same with sarrs. Sarracenia are better adapted to their lives in the bog. As XSCD pointed out, VFT's grow mostly in sandy savannah, and the water table is under them flowing slowly through the soil. They do live in boggier environs (like Cartwheel Bay, Horry County, S.C.) But the greatest number in the "Green" I have seen, live a little drier. Maybe they will be wiped out someday, but I do not want to be stuck with only registered cultivars to grow. It isn't EVEN the same! I have seen some wicked variations in the field, as I am sure Ozzy has. I have found giant forms here and there with a span of 12 to 14 inches, and 3 inch traps. MONSTERS!!! Can't get that with a cultivar. THAT is only locked in the genes of the wild plants. I mix all my cultivars with my wild collected to increase their color forms, and keep those poor cultivars from being cranked out one after another to people who don't understand you are only buying one or two TC clones, so your gene pool and color variation is essentially gone. I will stick to my wild plants as they will eventually throw a "cultivar" looking plant anyway. And be a lot stronger in its genetic makeup. I understand your point CCFC, but it is not the best one I have ever heard. Believe me, I have heard MUCH worse! You have a lot of homework to do, but too, you have all those seeds I gave you! I know you will be passing the pollen around so that your plants do not become weak, "who the heck wants these", kind of plants. If given the choice, wild plants every time. Luckily, I got those, years ago!!!
 
  • #24
Any pictures of the 12in plants with 3in traps
smile_k_ani_32.gif
 
  • #25
None. This was about 35 years ago. Roughly. A lot of things have disappeared besides pictures!!
 
  • #26
35 years ago I was walking ten miles to school, through 20 ft snow drifts. I don't have any photos either. Did I mention it was uphill both ways?
 
  • #27
[b said:
Quote[/b] (herenorthere @ June 27 2006,3:09)]35 years ago I was walking ten miles to school, through 20 ft snow drifts. I don't have any photos either. Did I mention it was uphill both ways?
Me too!! And I was barefoot and had to battle blood thirsty mosquitos the size of footballs.
 
  • #28
Sure! Killin' Grizzly Bears with your loose leaf notebook.
 
  • #29
Yea, when I wasn't fendin' off mountain lions with my ruler and fountain pen.
 
  • #30
The idea of releasing a home grown plant versus a wild plant is kinda like saying hey all the wolves are extinct lets release a bunch of German Shepards to replace them. Bad genes kill thousands of plants/animals a year but by survival of the fittest we get the healthier more stable populations. If people go out and collect so many plants then we could wipe out a whole genetic variant (some people aren't as good at growing plants as they think). So we collect one whole field and over 90% die off then we could have destroyed several genetically different plant groups.


If that doesn make sense I will try to explain it alittle better.
 
  • #31
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I don't think VFT's hold any value to the ecosystem

As flowering plants they are of great value to the ecosystem, especially in a nutrient poor area where flowers are sparse anyway. No flowers = no bees.
 
  • #32
A plant (and an ecosystem) shouldn't have to demonstrate a quantifiable value to justify its preservation.  Even if a VFT is an ecological bystander, just occupying space, it's one of the coolest plants on the planet and quite possibly the coolest.  That's why they're protected and boardwalks to the VFTs are built over less photogenic species.  People want to protect fuzzy animals with big brown eyes and also plants that snap shut on helpless insects.  Go figure.
 
  • #33
[b said:
Quote[/b] (CopcarFC @ June 25 2006,7:12)]
Sure VFT's look cool and everything but I just don't think they hold much value to the enviroment.
That statement show just how ignorant you are on ecosystems and enviromental settings. You need to study and research more.

The ecology for carnivorous plants varies greatly. Some grow in bogs and swamps. Some grow on river banks in forest areas. Some grow in tropical rain forests. While the CPs may not seem to you to be of a huge benefit to the enviroment remember also they are endangered. The numbers have dimished greatly. So the function they serve has diminished. That doesn't mean they don't have a vital function. Bug control, soil nuroshiment (even when they grow in bad soil), nectar and pollen when flowering for bees. These are few of the functions that they serve.

Now I understand that ecologies and enviroments would continue without cps, many would suffer greatly because of their loss. Mother nature may find ways to adapt but the cost of that may be a very high price. Even items in the enviroment that perform small functions perform vital functions.
 
  • #34
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Nurseries reproduce one single clone by the thousands. Replant those back into the wild and the lack of genetic diversity will produce poor and weak plants. Only a few nurseries grow them from seed.

Does anyone know the details of the Florida introduced flytraps such as the estimated number of plants originally introduced and whether they were a single clone or multiple clones?

I have found some conflicting information regarding whether the plants in FL are doing well or not.
The following website: http://www.claudewrankin.com/flowers/venusflytraps.shtml
mentions
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]They have not thrived in Florida and New Jersey, where they were introduced.
Another website:http://www.natureserve.org/explore....scipula
states that
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]This species is also apparently expanding where it has been artificially introduced in Florida (Amoroso pers. comm.). The status of introduced populations in New Jersey is unknown.

The information I have received from people who have visited the FL site mention that the flytraps are doing quite well.
 
  • #35
The Hosford plants are fine I believe. Were they planted, or were seeds brought on birds' feet? It's a mystery!
 
  • #36
With all the bird traffic, I always wonder why VFTs aren't found here and there up and down the the Atlantic Coastal Plain (not counting pots of them on windowsills).
 
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