Lava rock, Dyna Rok II, Aliflor

[xscd]

Has anyone used and care to comment on the use of the following products in planting mixes for carnivorous plants? They are often used for orchid potting mixes, but I haven't heard of their use (except for lava rock and Pinguicula) for carnivorous plants.

Does anyone have any experience with these planting mix additives:
<ul>
[*] Aliflor -- an expanded (air-puffed) fired clay pellet product, I believe
[*] Dyna Rok II -- a porous mined mineral composed of ancient diatoms, about 90% silica
[*] Lava Rock -- natural crushed (or crushed and tumbled) lava that is very porous
[/list]

 

[Pyro]

I have used lava rock for Mexi-Pings and Neps as additives to mixes. I have not noticed any major effect from using it but in my cases the portions are probably only 1 part in 10, sometimes less.

 

[pingman]

I have used dyna rok (diatomite) for Orchids for the past 5 years. I haven't tried it on CP's yet, but am planning to experiement. I think it would work. It's supposed the be clean and with a neutral pH.
Probably try on a few pings first. It's not that cheap so the usual peat sand mix is probably not better!
Peter.

 

[rattler]

ive been using Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil lately as an additive. i believe its a fired clay product but i dont have the bag here at work. its heavier than perlite but its far less dusty(a huge plus in my book) plus at ~$6 for 10 pounds its pretty cheap hope to use it quite a bit with Pings but im adding some to my nep pots as well once they are in pots bigger than 6 inches, the weight helps keep the larger vining plants from tipping(mix is roughly 1/2 LFS, 1/4 coconut husk chips, 1/4 Schultz)

 

[Clint]

Shultz rocks! I use it as an aquarium substrate. It's light, doesn't float, doesn't grow algea, blends in well and doesn't affect PH.

It's made of Fullers earth or something like that.

 

[rattler]

in reguards to the seemingly contridictory posts between JLAP and i as to its weight................its quite a bit heavier than perlite but by no means is it terribly heavy. i too have been using it a bit in aquariums and dart tanks. it seems to be very useful stuff to have around

 

[Clint]

Oh yeah, it's definately heavier than perlite but it's lighter than pebbles of similar size like laterite or flourite. I should have been more specific.

 

[seedjar]

I've used fired clay extensively. I've had success with every CP I've tried, including Dionaea, Sarracenia, Drosera, Drosophyllum, Pinguicula and Utricularia. It works well in the place of perlite and vermiculite - doesn't float like perlite and holds water longer than vermiculite. Looks a lot nicer than perlite, too.
By the way, lava rock works for lots of CPs besides Pings, too, especially pitcher plants (particularly Darlingtonia, I gather.) I have lava rock in with my Darlingtonia, Drosophyllum, and I think a few Neps - I use it a lot with succulents.
~Joe

 

[phissionkorps]

I used to grow S. minor and S. purpurea in a mix of peat and lava rock only.

I line the bottom of ALL of my pots with lava rock. It helps with humidity, keeps the rest of the mix from falling out of the bottom of the pot, and drains well, yet still holds/sucks up a lot of water (for plants on the tray system). Drosera either don't like it or plain just don't like me, as I have managed to kill every single one I've ever owned, regardless of the fact that I put them in good conditions.

 

[xscd]

Wow, lots of great comments about alternative ingredients in CP potting mixes (fired, puffed clay (Aliflor among other names), lava rock, diatomite (Dyna Rok II)), etc.

Thanks everyone for the comments and contributing to the discussion. I am not a fan of perlite because of its stark white appearance, its tendency to float and rise to the surface of the mix and overflow the pot, and its "dustiness," although it can be rinsed before using. I may buy a small bag of each of these other ingredients to try. I prefer something that weighs a little more than perlite but not necessarily as much as silica sand, because I use urethane foam pots and need something a little heavier to help anchor them.

One of the reasons I was interested in these ingredients is because the only source of silica sand I have in my region (that I know of) is a home/construction store that sells blasting sand. But the price of a 50 or 100 lb. bag just doubled within the last several months, to about $15 (50 lb.) and $30 (100 lb.) per bag.

I know that the other amendments mentioned, the expanded fired clay pellets (which I am very interested in), the mined diatomaceous rock and porous lava rock, may not be much cheaper, but they have the advantage of also providing aeration and water-retention capabilities.

I believe, from my own family's experience owning a small pottery, that the expanded clay, having been fired and therefore fused, will likely not shed too many minerals into the water and potting mix, so that will keep the TDS (total dissolved solids) down to an acceptable level. I'm more afraid of the diatomaceous rock, fearing that although it is about 90% silica, the other 10% of various minerals might be water soluble, even if slowly, and may burn the roots of some carnivorous plants. (Anyone have any comments about that?). With the lava rock I have a similar concern. Although the rock is fused and almost like glass, it may have lots of other minerals other than silica. I'm wondering how fast they dissolve in typical CP acid soil and whether they overload the potting mix and water with those minerals. It is for this same reason that I avoid gravel with its usual varied mix of types of rock. Crushed quartz may be an exception, since it would be almost pure silica.

Perhaps these fears (about minerals from these additives being dissolved at to rapid a rate in the water and acid soil) are exagerrated however.

I have enjoyed reading the discussion. Thanks everyone--

Steve / xscd

 

[phissionkorps]

i have used lava rock for about a year with no ill effects.

hope that helps...

 

[Clint]

Another idea is that not all lava comes from the same volcano. while one batch from an area might be perfect, another batch from another volcano could cause algea problems and best and death at worst.

 

[phissionkorps]

This is true. I use Mosser Lee brand. Kind of really expensive, but it seems to work really well

 

[xscd]

I've found an interesting comparison of several brands of LECA (Lightweight Expanded Clay Aggregate) including Aliflor, a Taiwanese brand, and PrimeAgra (but not Hydroton, which is another popular brand) here:

http://www.firstrays.com/PrimeAgra/compare.htm

PrimeAgra came out the clear winner in his comparison (and in his opinion as an orchid grower). It comes in fine (4-10 milimeter) and standard (8-16 milimeter) pellet sizes. I ordered some of the fine grade to try with carnivorous plants. It will be interesting to experiment.

Steve / xscd

 

[seedjar]

Consider yourself lucky if you're getting 100 pounds of sand for $30 - the only sand I can find around here is quartz sand sold as reptile bedding, and it's about $16 for two pounds if I remember right. I try to use as little sand as possible.
~Joe

 

[mabudon]

Seedjar- have you tried and contractors supply places or anything?? 16 bucks for 2 pounds of sand would have likely kept me outta the hobby right from the get-go
Or maybe sandblasting sand?? you should realy ask around as sand is handy, tho if you've found ways around it there's really no need

Sorry if this is too far off topic but the price for sand listed in the last post made me have to say something

 

[xscd]

Quote[/b] (mabudon @ Oct. 27 2006,7:08)]Seedjar- have you tried and contractors supply places or anything?? 16 bucks for 2 pounds of sand would have likely kept me outta the hobby right from the get-go
Or maybe sandblasting sand??

I agree. That reptile sand is WAY too expensive. Try to find bags of blasting sand. If you can't find it at a local home/garden center or building supply center, ask at an auto body shop if they do sandblasting and where they get their sand.

 

[Tropics]

I use lava rock mixed with LFS for Nepenthes, and it works as well as anything else I use, including peat/perlite.