Hi Joossa. Like another posted previously the glimpses into Satan's origins are scattered throughout the bible. A thompson Chain Reference bible or a Strong's concordance can pinpoint places where Satan is mentioned throughout the bible. I'm sorry I presently can't help with your question specifically at this time. I haven't studied his origin in depth. However, that being said, and I do not wish to open any debates presently, the issue of freewill is something I do know of. A man named John Calvin is to this day mostly disliked for his beliefs that he extracted from the bible. However, a study of Calvinism reveals that man "had" freewill in the garden of eden and became slaves to sin in need of the saviour as a result of disobedience to God. Therefore every man since has inherited a sinful nature, that was Satan's plan to divide us from God. Now that people have a sin nature they can not seek God until He calls them and gives them the grace to do so. The reason is found in Satan's lies to Adam and Eve in the garden. Satan told them once they ate from the tree they would have thir eyes open.... in effect now everyone's eyes are shut and ears until God opens them through His word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Calvinism is rarely taught any longer, it was the primary belief in the protestant reformation. Freewill, also known as Arminianism(named after Jacob Arminius, it's proponent) is taught almost everywhere today). In the song Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin, Satan's Lie of freewill is heard 'Yes there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run there's still time to change the road your on." But God/Jesus says "today if you still hear his voice do not harden your hearts as your fathers did....today is the day of salvation." If we continue to neglect so great a salvation in Jesus, we are hardening our hearts to the Lord's word and eventually the opportunity to know the Lord will disappear forever. That is known as the sin unto death. Only God can change our sinful hearts at anytime. Man can choose nothing until God intervenes and through God's grace He Elects(chooses) that man. This doctrine(teaching) I am referring to is known as "unconditional election." Look into Calvinism and the protestant reformation and all of that history then and compare it with modern teachings and you will see why Calvinism is so despised. It is not easy to swallow that God chooses who He wishes to be saved, etc.al. Again, I do not wish to debate anyone on these issues I am simply hoping you might research this history yourself and come to your own conclusions. I personally believe in God's absolute sovereignty, which the systematic doctrines of Calvinism absolutely illustrate with the word of God as the proof text. I hope I have been of help. May we all be counted worthy when Jesus returns.
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Story of how Satan came to be found in the bible?
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"If we continue to neglect so great a salvation in Jesus, we are hardening our hearts to the Lord's word and eventually the opportunity to know the Lord will disappear forever"
Hmmm... I learned that it's never ever too late. Only if you die.
I could live a life of sin and parties then repent on my deathbed and as long as i'm sincere I could go to heaven. You never lose your chance until you die (that's if you are capable of understanding and have heard the truth)
Just my thoughts.
Hmmm... I learned that it's never ever too late. Only if you die.
I could live a life of sin and parties then repent on my deathbed and as long as i'm sincere I could go to heaven. You never lose your chance until you die (that's if you are capable of understanding and have heard the truth)
Just my thoughts.
The sin unto death is complete and utter apostasy. Living how you want and then trying to repent is not sincere it shows no fear of God to assume you can be sincere near death. What you are referring to is known as "Easy Believism" and is pressumptious about God's grace. True repentance occurs when we sorry to that point because God has spoken to us through his word. It is not something we decide in the future. The only way to sincerely repent is when He has chosen to speak to us through His word, at that time, we are enabled to repent. We cannot make one hair white or black. God saves. He is a sovereign God, absolutely. His plan has always been to show His love through His son's redemptive death and resurrection. The book of Romans speaks to everything I have said. I am done God bless you all, even you JLAP
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I think you misunderstood what I meant. If you repent on your deathbed and are sincerely repentant, I don't think it matters. I don't see why you can't "hear the word of God" sincerely on your deathbed. In fact it makes a lot of sense that many people would. another example is that someone would believe in god their entire life but ignore it. you know, in the back of their mind, then finally accept him on their deathbed.
It would suck to believe you are saved and believe god as saved you, then die and go to hell. We just have different beliefs (hypothetical in my circumstance) and that's totally cool too.
Bless you, too.
It would suck to believe you are saved and believe god as saved you, then die and go to hell. We just have different beliefs (hypothetical in my circumstance) and that's totally cool too.
Bless you, too.
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Yeah, the debate of when and how one knows he/she has received salvation or not is fraught with options. I've seen people claim that you have to speak in tongues (another language) or that Salvation doesn't happen until you are baptized. I tend to think that:[b said:
A) no one outside yourself and God can truly know if you are saved or not.
B) The best way to see if someone has repented and received salvation is by their actions.
C) I don't know when and how Salvation first begins apart from accepting (which is different than just belief IMO) the core aspect of the Gospel.
JLAP I really have to say that I admire your respect of others, and honest questions/options in these sorts of discussions. I've seen some people get really nasty about these sorts of things before.
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I agree with A B and C.
Well thank you! I'm totally fine with christians as long as they don't shove it down your throat, and I try not to preach atheism/agnostisism.
I can get nasty when fundamental christians like to go into a political discussion and tell me basically i'm going to hell because I'm gay and how desgusting it is and what an abomination it is. It's fine if they wan't to believe it but they forget that people have feelings and are willing to bite back. Sometimes it's best to keep your opinions to yourself, especially on a forum that leans towards liberalism/moderacy.
Christians like you and Rubra I like a lot, it's a couple others (and If you saw the other thread you know who i'm talking about) that i'm not so fond of.
Well thank you! I'm totally fine with christians as long as they don't shove it down your throat, and I try not to preach atheism/agnostisism.
I can get nasty when fundamental christians like to go into a political discussion and tell me basically i'm going to hell because I'm gay and how desgusting it is and what an abomination it is. It's fine if they wan't to believe it but they forget that people have feelings and are willing to bite back. Sometimes it's best to keep your opinions to yourself, especially on a forum that leans towards liberalism/moderacy.
Christians like you and Rubra I like a lot, it's a couple others (and If you saw the other thread you know who i'm talking about) that i'm not so fond of.
Thats Why I have become more against Christianity theirs only a few real Christians and its hard to be bashed when I don't do any thing... I don't even talk to some people and they Call me names. I compleatly agree JLAP, cause I hate it when christians look down on me cause I do a few things weird, like Wear crazy pants, or have long shaggy hair, or want to get a mow hawk or dread locks (or both
)
Apart from that, When I made the statement about Bee's and Ant's I meant BEE'S and ANTS as an example, cause they both rely on pheromones and things of the sort VERY heavily. As compared to Macaws or Octopi or any other animal.
From what I have read in the bible Salvation is found through Knowing you have sinned and what sin is,accepting Jesus as you're savior from you're sin's, and repenting to god and try and live you're life for god.
Theirs some scripture (don't remember) But basically it says something along the lines of We are in gods grasp, and no one or thing can pull us from him, and it basically spoke of how if we sinned we still wouldn't be come magically "Un-Christian"
Apart from that, When I made the statement about Bee's and Ant's I meant BEE'S and ANTS as an example, cause they both rely on pheromones and things of the sort VERY heavily. As compared to Macaws or Octopi or any other animal.
From what I have read in the bible Salvation is found through Knowing you have sinned and what sin is,accepting Jesus as you're savior from you're sin's, and repenting to god and try and live you're life for god.
Theirs some scripture (don't remember) But basically it says something along the lines of We are in gods grasp, and no one or thing can pull us from him, and it basically spoke of how if we sinned we still wouldn't be come magically "Un-Christian"
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I know its not... but my mom... well w/e yea im sure you know... but its also more of a society thing is what shes worried about.
I guess she doesnt realize once I hit 18... im getting them!
Past two years I have wanted them... not just a 1 month thing. Ive done lots of research on them! But either way this is getting off topic.
I guess she doesnt realize once I hit 18... im getting them!
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Like someone else stated there doesn't have to be evil for there to be a definition of what is good. God defines what is good in Genesis.[b said:Quote[/b] (JustLikeAPill @ Dec. 02 2006,5:33)]It is my opinion that you can have no good without evil. Without evil, the concept of good is null.
If you can have no good without evil, it must be good to be evil
I'm just a .. taoist i believe it's called lol.
Samson's story is found in Judges 13-16. The verse you are looking for is perhaps Judges 16:19. The reason why his hair is so important is because at birth he was placed under a Nazirite vow (Numbers 6: 1-21), which stated that along with certain dietary restrictions, no hair was to be removed from the body until the vow was over. So he was 20+ years old; so that is a lot of hair. The Nazirite vow is perhaps one of the major reasons why most depictions of Christ Jesus has him with long hair.[b said:
edit: one of the reasons I like this story is because it is true to human character. Samson only tells her his secret after he has basically annoyed him to death. Judges 16:16 (NASB) - "it came about when she pressed him daily with her words and urged him, that his soul was annoyed to death
See where nagging will get ya? A shaved head, and imprisonment.
If you beleive that God can predict the future, then you have to understand that even before he created you, he knew every event that would play out in your life and whether you ultimately would go to heaven or hell. Therfore you have to resign yourself to understand that either:
A.) Free will is simply an illusion and he created you solely to play out your life as his design.
or
B.) He is an imperfect being and cannot do everything(as in see the future).
Its not hard to understand that if you build a wind up toy with a sticky wheel it will only roll a certain way.
The only other option would be that he creates at random which would still mean hes imperfect because a perfect being creating at random would still know the exact outcome of his creation therfore nullifying the randomness.
That last one kind of went in a circle..
Michael Jackson's Moonwalker = the best game EVER!
A.) Free will is simply an illusion and he created you solely to play out your life as his design.
or
B.) He is an imperfect being and cannot do everything(as in see the future).
Its not hard to understand that if you build a wind up toy with a sticky wheel it will only roll a certain way.
The only other option would be that he creates at random which would still mean hes imperfect because a perfect being creating at random would still know the exact outcome of his creation therfore nullifying the randomness.
That last one kind of went in a circle..
Michael Jackson's Moonwalker = the best game EVER!
It doesn't necessarily have to be an either..or situation. I will offer what I know and some illustrations that have helped me understand God's all knowing ability. I'm no expert, nor do I think there will be an concrete answer to this, but this is what I think.[b said:Quote[/b] (JRFxtreme @ Dec. 05 2006,12:34)]If you beleive that God can predict the future, then you have to understand that even before he created you, he knew every event that would play out in your life and whether you ultimately would go to heaven or hell. Therfore you have to resign yourself to understand that either:
A.) Free will is simply an illusion and he created you solely to play out your life as his design.
or
B.) He is an imperfect being and cannot do everything(as in see the future).
Its not hard to understand that if you build a wind up toy with a sticky wheel it will only roll a certain way.
The only other option would be that he creates at random which would still mean hes imperfect because a perfect being creating at random would still know the exact outcome of his creation therfore nullifying the randomness.
That last one kind of went in a circle..
Michael Jackson's Moonwalker = the best game EVER!
C.S. Lewis wrote an illustration relating God to time that has really helped me out. You have a sheet of paper, and on the paper a line is drawn. That line represents time past present and future. God is the paper on which the line is dawn. Therefore, God is both in time, and out of time. It takes some thinking, but it kinda makes sense, at least to me.
Then add that to the fact that God wants to be LOVED by choice, not by force. Free will must be given in order for that to happen. In giving us free choice, God did limit himself. He sacrificed some control. He cannot mess with free will. That is his limiting situation. He did this out of love, and desire for relationship. He has the full capacity to rid us of free will, but he chooses not to. He can still see what choices you make, and what road you will take, but IMO he chooses to peruse everyone no matter what. I'm am delving into strictly personal option here, so don't take anything as pure doctrine or theology. God desires us to love him so much that I think the limits himself in truly knowing a person's final decision. God does put limits on himself. His willingness to do so is personified in the act that he came to Earth in human form and spirit as Jesus Christ. He is still powerful, but like any man with power, he can choose to limit said power. It is a really confusing subject, but I really don't think there is an either.. or situation at play here. I'm sure there are theology books dedicated to this sort of thing, but alas, I don't know of any so I can't recommend any.
Edit to add: It seems that you presume that somehow God directly causes events to happen. I disagree. He may have put the situation together, and the available choices, but I don't think he forces any direct choice. He probably knows what will happen if one picks any of the choices, and the causes from each of them. God may know where a leaf will land after it falls. God may have created the physics that the leaf endures to reach the ground. However, he doesn't directly cause the leaf to land in that spot.
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Maybe the people god creates who he knows will not love him are there to "test" the others and thus strengthen their love.
Then one could say those people are "disposable" or some other word that I can't think of right now lol. That doesn't really sound that good.
Personally, If I was a christian I would say that even though God knows some people will never love him, he loves THEM so very very much that he is willing to give them a chance even though it will never happen. This goes back to what I said about Satan. God, IMO, knows that Satan will never repent but god loves satan so very much that his arms are always open to the chance that satan will ask for salvation, even though it won't happen, and IMO, that makes god sad because God loves Satan just as much as he loves you or me.
Lol, If I forget to capitalize God, don't read anything into it. I'm trying to have propper grammar!! lol
What if God chooses not to know out final decision? If he can limit himself out of his own power (and IMO that is not a sign of weakness or imperfection), then maybe he chooses to do so and is rooting for us the whole time? that makes a lot of sense to me because If God did indeed know what we would do in the end then it seems kind of pointless.
Then one could say those people are "disposable" or some other word that I can't think of right now lol. That doesn't really sound that good.
Personally, If I was a christian I would say that even though God knows some people will never love him, he loves THEM so very very much that he is willing to give them a chance even though it will never happen. This goes back to what I said about Satan. God, IMO, knows that Satan will never repent but god loves satan so very much that his arms are always open to the chance that satan will ask for salvation, even though it won't happen, and IMO, that makes god sad because God loves Satan just as much as he loves you or me.
Lol, If I forget to capitalize God, don't read anything into it. I'm trying to have propper grammar!! lol
What if God chooses not to know out final decision? If he can limit himself out of his own power (and IMO that is not a sign of weakness or imperfection), then maybe he chooses to do so and is rooting for us the whole time? that makes a lot of sense to me because If God did indeed know what we would do in the end then it seems kind of pointless.
