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Cocaine, Meth and Chronic, oh my!

  • #101
good. thats the distinction that was not being adressed here by others. Now thats something i can agree with
 
  • #102
So many posts!

Ok, first i'll address EP. I WISH all drugs were legalized in small amounts, but practically I just want the shrooms and pot and the other entheogens legalized. Look at the Netherlands. They don't have a problem and yet those are legal there. If they were legal, it would not mean people not inclined to do drugs will start doing them just because they are legal. Yes, I know some people aren't as educated and responsable as me (and even i've had my low-points), but I do not believe taking one for the team is a good reason to abstain at all. Look at mexico. They legalized small amounts of everything so they could focus on the big dealers. Why can't we do that? Yes, Mexico has a lot of it's corruptions such as going to any pharmacy pretty much and buying whatever you want, but you don't see a big change in mexico pre-legalization and now.

Finch: Educating people on the dangers is not anti-drug, but when you are always given the worst case scenario it's BS! Look at MJ. It's the gateway drug. Personally I went from alcohol to pills and then MJ. I've NEVER met a person who tried MJ before Alcohol and I hate it when people say "drugs and alcohol". Alcohol is a drug, simple. If you believe them, first a person tries MJ then graduates to pills and heroin and meth. WHAT? I guess almost 3/4ths of americans must be hardcore drug addicts because that's how many have tried MJ atleast once. You NEVER hear about the man or woman who works hard all day, supports their family, then enjoys the occasional joint when the kids aren't around. The truth is it's FAR safer than alcohol and any negative side effects present are not even on the same scale as alcohol. It's a no-brainer to me. If you are against MJ legalization, then the logical thing to do is support alcohol prohibition.

For your second post, yes people can try stupid things. So can people who drink alcohol and to a much greater extent. That doesn't mean MJ should be illegal does it? People need to take 10 seconds, and think before they act. Yes it lowers your ability to reason sometimes, but most people sit on the couch. Even that anti-drug commercial has a guy saying he'd be safest just sitting on Pete's couch and smoking. But he'd rather be living. See, here is a problem right here. This commercial implies that if you smoke, that's ALL you do. Once again, it's a one-sided presentation.


JRF: First of all, these drugs do not completely ruin people's lives. Go to an NA meeting sometime. My life hasn't been ruined. I do support legalizing everything. It's a persons right IMO. I say keep it in small amounts, however. People have been killed by alcoholics, too. And gamblers. And because someone completely sober was just pissed off. If someone is an addict, then they need help. Using a drug every now and then does NOT make you an addict untill you crave it, then it's time to back off. I can't help it if people are too stupid to know that and stop. So I should be punished as a proactive measure?

I HATE to be a narc. I REALLY do. BUT you have you called the cops? Have you called them again? If not then you don't really have a reason to complain. Do you personally know he is responsible for over 20 break ins in one neighborhood or was this just something you heard? Like I said, I WISH and THINK they should be legal, but my hopes are not realistic and it won't happen. I'm not going to press for it politically because that's a dead end, but i'm glad you agree with me about MJ :) You mentioned extracts. Now we are on a whole other level. I assume you mean things like DMT, 5-ME0 DMT, bufotenin, LSD, mescalin,etc. Why are these bad? These aren't addictive in the slightest. Not one tiny bit. Anyone with the internet can obtain LSA, DMT, mescaline, etc online as long as it's still in the plant form that remins legal. Why not go ahead and legalize it?

Look at Peyote and San Pedro. You can buy, sell, and own (but not eat but that won't stop anyone) San Pedro, but not Peyote. Why? What's the difference between eating an ounze of San Pedro skin (Yes you can buy just the skin and they label it as incense to get around the law) and a peyote button? Same chemicals. Why not go ahead and legalize them? In the 60's they had stories of LSD and peyote driving people mad but now we know this isn't true. There was a rumor. Take acid 7 times and you go crazy. We know that's not true. LSA is not addictive and it's VERY weak, why not make it legal? Afterall, it's already legal in the seeds of a certain plant that you can cheaply and easily buy. These laws don't make sense. I do agree Mj should have strict laws like alcohol on it's use.


All I'm asking is throw the Phychonauts a bone once in awhile! People going around eating seeds and smoking a joint are not crackheads. They won't hurt you. They won't rob you and to be honest, you'll never know who they are unless they tell you. Please don't take your frustration on the drug epidemic out on Entheogens. They are not part of the problem and a small fraction of the american people even know what they are. If I told my friends "Oh man! Let's go do some Hawaiian Baby Woodrose!" They'd look at me like I was absolutely nuts. Cebil Nuts that is (bet most of you don't know about those either. See my point?) I have a joke that the best drugs are the one's no one has ever heard of. People like to try entheogens and post videos of it on youtube, and this kind of pisses me off. I don't want people to get scared and press for illegalization out of fear.

I like all of you guys, even though we have different opininions in some areas :)

Disclaimer: Don't go out and buy these plants/seeds that I talk about unless you only want to grow them for their natural beauty. Don't eat them and don't break the law, please. Stay in school and be ahead of your class like I am :)
 
  • #103
I WISH all drugs were legalized in small amounts

There is no point to some of them, and some are so downright dangerous to themselves and others that even small quantities are unacceptable. There is no point to meth and heroin, or speed and such. Why on earth should they be legalized? There is no benefit, there are only harms to themselves and others.

Alcohol is a drug, simple. If you believe them, first a person tries MJ then graduates to pills and heroin and meth. WHAT? I guess almost 3/4ths of americans must be hardcore drug addicts because that's how many have tried MJ atleast once. You NEVER hear about the man or woman who works hard all day, supports their family, then enjoys the occasional joint when the kids aren't around. The truth is it's FAR safer than alcohol and any negative side effects present are not even on the same scale as alcohol. It's a no-brainer to me. If you are against MJ legalization, then the logical thing to do is support alcohol prohibition.

This assumes that because one thing is worse, it is ok to legalize something else because "well its not as bad as that", and this is a dangerous logical assumption for anything.
For your second post, yes people can try stupid things. So can people who drink alcohol and to a much greater extent. That doesn't mean MJ should be illegal does it?

Never said it did for that reason

People need to take 10 seconds, and think before they act. Yes it lowers your ability to reason sometimes, but most people sit on the couch. Even that anti-drug commercial has a guy saying he'd be safest just sitting on Pete's couch and smoking. But he'd rather be living. See, here is a problem right here. This commercial implies that if you smoke, that's ALL you do. Once again, it's a one-sided presentation.

People need to? Most people? In an ideal world, prehaps, but you dont need me to tell you that the world is far from ideal
 
  • #104
Not everything has to have a benefit or be good for you to be pleasurable and used responsibly. I'll agree that some should not use.

I meant people who do drugs and don't think before they act lol

On the second post it was kind of rhetorical. I should have made that clearer lol. Didn't mean to direct it at you ^_^

I still don't see why Alcohol is OK but not MJ. Don't see why that logic is bad. I could be wrong and am just not seeing it.
 
  • #105
I think smoking is more.......how can i say...."frightening" that having a beer/mixed drink. Oh top of that, sure you can loose your liver to alcohol but thats if you're an addict, to MJ cannot you loose your ability to breathe and think (braincells?) Someone needs to do a gooooood long study on MJ and tell people the truth, rather than the dogmatic and narrow minded view of the FDA/USGOV.
 
  • #106
Therein lies the problem. Of the study comes up more one-sided, the other side will discredit it as being narrow-minded, however the study will turn out because both sides are like that
 
  • #107
It's hard to find someone without an agenda, and if you did fine a group and they did do a legit study, a lot of people still wouldn't listen.

Sizzigh.
 
  • #108
The problem with extracts is that they take something in nature that is already powerful and they make it a LOT more potent than it should be.

And until you live across the street from a crack head, you really can't understand the effect hes had on the neighborhood. We've called the cops dozen of times on people hanging around outside his house waiting to get some crack.

I do have a right to complain about him.

He knocks on my house asking for 5 bucks so he can "pick his friend up from the airport". Keep in mind that its past 12:00 A.M.

I was over at my neighbors awhile back and he knocks on the door asking my friend for a ride to the bus station because hes got to be at work by 12 midnight. It was already past 2:30 A.M. and the previous week his friend was giving him a lift when they were conviently held at gun point and the car was stolen. You can't tell me he didn't have anything to do with it.

They have found stolen goods from break ins inside his room on a number of occasions and thankfully he is finally going to go to court this month for his most recent sprees. However because some dumb **** technicalities his felony charge was dropped to a misdemeanor because even though the amount stolen from the break in was enough to charge him with a felony, he was able to sell enough of it to only be caught with a misdemeanor amount.

I can keep going on, but it'll just be wasting my time.

I can't beleive you or anyone else would want an addictive poison to be readily available. Those drugs do ruin people's lives, you can't convince me otherwise. The crack *****s wandering the streets every night aren't selling themselves because they like it.
 
  • #109
If it was acredited and backed up by authorized and authetic TRUE scientific data and studies then you could sell it easily to the public, because it would be TRUE! If they did this and said MJ was harmless, u bet ur bottom i would try it.
 
  • #110
I'm not trying to convince you of anything or convert you to the dark side lol. Debates like these in a place like this aren't about convincing people, they are fun and make you think and i'm having a wonderfull time listening and considering all of your viewpoints.


Once again i'll say it. Anything is a "poison" if taken in X amount. You need to educate yourself on this matter and stop calling things poisons or toxic when taken at normal doses are not. Can the drugs contain toxic impurities? Sure. Are they themselves inherently toxic? No...

Now you have your terminology mixed up. When someone makes an extract, they are not making the drug already found there more potent. They are simply extracting and condensing it. It's still the same drug. When they alter that drug, then that's different. Freebase drugs (cocaine, DMT, etc... hey that rhymes!) Are literally freed from their base molecule and can be assimilated into the body in a different, often faster and stronger way. By this logic, 250 Ug of mescaline is bad if it's in it's crystalline structure, but if it's in a cactus then it's ok. What? Same drug, same amount.


I totally agree. They can and do ruin people's lives. BUT, and call me optimistic, those people can stay sober if they try hard enough and follow a rehab plan etc etc. Maybe instead of hating/showing ill-will toward them, you should show some compassion? They are in a bad situation and need a helping hand. Also, correct me if i'm wrong but what I get from you saying that is that they ruin everyone's life that tries them. That's what it sounds like you're saying to me. I've tried crack before. Didn't ruin my life. I have no interest in trying it again. Just wasn't my thing.

And don't be so hostile. No reason for it. Do you have a personal issue with a family member or something to cause this (atleast perceived) hostility? If I was out of line by asking, my appologies.


You're right. I won't know unless I have a crackhead neighbor. BUT I do have an Ice-head brother that I havn't spoken to in 6 years. Does that count?
 
  • #111
It wasn't supposed to seem hostile, so please don't take it that way. I just find your opinion on the subject to immature and naive, no offense, just the only words that can describe it. I don't think of you as a bad person for it though.

My issue is with the addictive drugs that I've mentioned before. They are addictive poison. Whats the "normal dose" for meth/crack/heroin? These are extremely dangerous drugs and theres no way to responsibly use them. They damage your body and mind.

And I wasn't saying that it always ruins peoples lives but that fact that it does and the fact that its horribly addictive and damaging is why no one should touch it in the first place and why it needs to NEVER be legal.

Now you have your terminology mixed up. When someone makes an extract, they are not making the drug already found there more potent. They are simply extracting and condensing it.

By condensing it, it becomes dangerous. Something that would normally be hard to overdose on becomes one misjudgment away from causing serious damage.

I don't really want to argue about the non addictive extracts, I just see no need to take them out of their original form for consumption because that makes abuse and misuse (or uneducated use if you'd like) easy.

You're right. I won't know unless I have a crackhead neighbor. BUT I do have an Ice-head brother that I havn't spoken to in 6 years. Does that count?

Only if he hangs around the neighborhood like a plague.


They should have an unbiased, scientific study of marijuana, I do agree on that.
 
  • #112
Ok, you're welcome to think that about my opinion :)

Doses depend on which drug you'll be taking. For me, my average dose was about 250 mg's. Give or take 10-20 or so, of methamphetamine. I didn't do it THAT often. On my daily use I used about 120-150 mg's of amphetamine/sometimes methylphenidate. (Disclaimer, don't break the law kids OR adults!)


Lol, I'm not trying to argue lol. Just an exchange of opinions. Extracts (in this example entheogens) just makes things easier. It's like... you COULD chew on a pound of willow bark if you have a headache, or you can take an Aspirin.

My brother doesn't want anything to do with us. He's alienated himself from us. In his paranoia, he mistook my mothers "So whatcha been up to?" as an interrogation. Told her to get the F out of his life. I hope he's happy living in a trailer with his wifes parents and their kid. Have fun with that. He left our lifestyle for his and his need to feed and that's his problem. He could have gotten help but whatever. I personally hope I never see him again, but my mother is sad about it. Even though he beat the crap out of her in a state of phychosis. I was too young to remember that, however.

After all that and the first hand carnage of drug abuse through family and friends, my opinion isn't affected.

Oh, EDIT: I should add that he's my half brother. Interestingly enough, his dad from my mothers first marriage was a crack head :) What a sordid family history I have!
 
  • #113
Man, how did a topic about dumb marketing schemes turn into a 10+ page debate?? :p
 
  • #114
Ten pages? lol I see 3. Oh Yeah I set my preferences to 40 posts per page.

Ehh, i'm the creator and I say every one's still on topic lol
 
  • #115
ol, I'm not trying to argue lol. Just an exchange of opinions. Extracts (in this example entheogens) just makes things easier. It's like... you COULD chew on a pound of willow bark if you have a headache, or you can take an Aspirin.

True. I could chew monkshood leaves, but an extract will kill me so much faster
 
  • #116
What does that have to do with anything? Last time I checked, Aconitum wasn't an entheogen. Wolfsbane was used back in the middle ages for flying ointments and that's it. Aconitum contains no recreational drugs to speak of. Even plants like Datura and and brugmansia and Belladonna, while dangerous, have been used (even in modern times) "recreationally". Dangerous, yes, but if taken at a known dosage (this is what makes it a bad idea. Doses vary wildly between plant and even leaves on the same plant) can be done safely. They contain Anticholergenics (sp?) and this is what produces the "desireable" side effects.

Don't do it though, anyone. You really could kill yourself. It's not fun at all, anyway.
 
  • #117
That has to do with the fact that more of a bad thing is still a bad thing

As for Aconitum, it is one of the most potent nerve poisons in the plant kningdom.
For those hardcore drugs, its like taking Aconitum, but feeling good while doing it. Its bad for you and does no good. Period
 
  • #118
Datura has been used in the past for asthma treatment I've heard.

Did not know that Brugmansia was used for "recreational" festivities. I should go into selling that!
 
  • #119
They both contain Atropine and Scopalomine.


Brugmansia is a quick way to kill yourself because the there's no way to know the dose. All you can do is make an educated guess. It ended me up strapped to a hospital bed and when I was coherent i was off to rehab for phychological observation.

I was told I tried to bite a nurse before I got my MRI. Don't remember anything. I was like a wild animal.



"Aconitum, it is one of the most potent nerve poisons in the plant kningdom.
For those hardcore drugs, its like taking Aconitum, but feeling good while doing it. Its bad for you and does no good. Period"

No.... it's not the same thing. Period. If it did you no good, why do we use amphetamines and opiates as medicine?

Aconitum and heroin/meth are not the same thing dude. If you have a quarter gram of meth and a quarter gram of whatever the nerve agent in Aconitum is, which will kill you? Not meth.

I believe the LD-50 level of coke is a whopping TEN grams for the average person. What about the active alkaloid in Aconitum?
 
  • #120
good point JLAP, but what I think he's saying is that it's still bad for your health, and that some drugs have been known to cause real problems( like people trying to get money for drugs.......the wrong way).
 
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