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Thread: Gun Control, my view..........long **** post

  1. #9
    rattler's Avatar
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    oh i didn answer how strict are Washington DC's laws, basically untill the ruling in March(see fist post) they were about as restrictive as the UK's no one is supposed to own a handgun within the city limits of DC
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  2. #10
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.
    It is also a fact that most fo the lowest countries for gun-related deaths have some of the world's strictest gun controls. That is a fact. This is also directly contrary to your argument that gun cntrol = more gun related deaths. That is simply not true.

    China,
    Nationalist
    This example bolster the point that a militia can survive under gun control laws, contrary to what you claim. The takeover of communist china happened with gun control laws, because as you and may others have said countless times, you can get any gun you wanted if you really wanted it. That makes the argument that a militia cant function with gun contrl laws moot.
    that makes no logic

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    I can't speak for the rest of Florida, but in 2006 Orlando had its highest murder rate in history, and we are well on our way to equal that this year. This is not a statement on gun control - just stating the facts for a nearby city where the murder rate apparently isn't dropping.

  4. #12
    rattler's Avatar
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    That makes the argument that a militia cant function with gun contrl laws moot.
    true but it is not a moot point cause as i showed with the founding fathers quotes it is the intent of the constitution of the US, the same one i constantly hear about on here with screams of freedom of speech and freedom of religion among other things, that its intent is for the civilians of this country to be armed. you cant defend the first amendment and ignore the second. it doesnt work that way, either support all of it or none of it.

    im unsure of Brazil's laws but i do know private firearms are heavily restricted in Mexico, in fact i do believe it is illegal for civilians to own handguns. i know England and Japan fall under my statement to Alexis above in that if no one has guns the crime rate is low, as far as i know handguns(i think i showed above rifles are rarely used in the commission of a crime) have pretty well always been unavailible to civilians in thos countries, Japan for sure. however i REALLY doubt those states are accurate any longer because in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime more than doubled in England. Your chances of being mugged in London are now 6 times greater than in New York. England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are far higher than America's, and 53% of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13% in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police. those results Alexis posted above look good but his country alone has changed alot in the last 12 years as far as homicide rates.
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  5. #13
    rattler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buster1 View Post
    I can't speak for the rest of Florida, but in 2006 Orlando had its highest murder rate in history, and we are well on our way to equal that this year. This is not a statement on gun control - just stating the facts for a nearby city where the murder rate apparently isn't dropping.
    looking into it and trying to find comparible cities in other states to compare to.............for the rest of thhose in the descussion im having trouble deciding how widely or finely to define my search Orlando has a population of ~186,000 ppl which is actually small compared to the other big cities i think of, how much lattitude should i take population wise for comparison? hell Billings Montana has almost exactly 1/2 that..................Orlando must be smaller than i think it is
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  6. #14
    A yellow M&M Jefforever's Avatar
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    Wow!!!! I agree with you, gun control is bad. Strangest thing though, I had a gun control debate in school the day of the shootings. You have many good points!!!!

  7. #15
    Lauderdale's Avatar
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    One other Florida stastic. Since the CCW law was passed here there have been only two convictions, that I am aware of, of CCW permit holders using their firearms in an unlawful manner. One of those was a little "iffy" and the guy got five years and was out in six months. The "10-20-life" law has also made the criminals think twice about using a firearm in commision of a felony.
    Some of the incidents of CCW permit carriers are ledgend. One example; two men carjack a new Mercedes. They stuff the driver the trunk and drive around for awhile before deciding to kill the owner...who is in the trunk, busily loading two of his .45's. He had stored his firearms there until he moved into his new home. When the perps stop and opened the deck lid...end of story.

    I do however, wish that requirements were a little stricter from the standpoint of showing proficiency with a firearm and better backround checks.

  8. #16
    rattler's Avatar
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    wish that requirements were a little stricter from the standpoint of showing proficiency with a firearm
    i actually have no problem with this, depending on how much training is required. aslong as your not talking proficency in the range of police officers than sure. requiring a couple weekend classes fine, solong as those classes are widely availible to everyone. no classes availible means you cant use it as a restriction though. them being prohibitly expensive is not allowed either. i think we would easily be able to strike a balance on this.

    as far as background checks, i was under the impression they were fairly inclusive

    florida law states:
    (2) The Department of State shall issue a license if the applicant:

    (a) Is a resident of the United States or is a consular security official of a foreign government that maintains diplomatic relations and treaties of commerce, friendship, and navigation with the United States and is certified as such by the foreign government and by the appropriate embassy in this country;

    (b) Is 21 years of age or older;

    (c) Does not suffer from a physical infirmity which prevents the safe handling of a weapon or firearm;

    (d) Is not ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to s. 790.23 by virtue of having been convicted of a felony;

    (e) Has not been committed for the abuse of a controlled substance or been found guilty of a crime under the provisions of chapter 893 or similar laws of any other state relating to controlled substances within a 3-year period immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted;

    (f) Does not chronically and habitually use alcoholic beverages or other substances to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired. It shall be presumed that an applicant chronically and habitually uses alcoholic beverages or other substances to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired if the applicant has been committed under chapter 397 or under the provisions of former chapter 396 or has been convicted under s. 790.151 or has been deemed a habitual offender under s. 856.011(3), or has had two or more convictions under s. 316.193 or similar laws of any other state, within the 3-year period immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted;

    (g) Desires a legal means to carry a concealed weapon or firearm for lawful self-defense;

    (h) Demonstrates competence with a firearm by any one of the following:

    1. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;

    2. Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;

    3. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of State;

    4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;

    5. Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;

    6. Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or a county or municipality of this state, unless such license has been revoked for cause; or

    7. Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;

    A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; or an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught said course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this paragraph; any person who conducts a course pursuant to subparagraph 2., subparagraph 3., or subparagraph 7., or who, as an instructor, attests to the completion of such courses, must maintain records certifying that he or she observed the student safely handle and discharge the firearm;

    (i) Has not been adjudicated an incapacitated person under s. 744.331, or similar laws of any other state, unless 5 years have elapsed since the applicant's restoration to capacity by court order;

    (j) Has not been committed to a mental institution under chapter 394, or similar laws of any other state, unless the applicant produces a certificate from a licensed psychiatrist that he or she has not suffered from disability for at least 5 years prior to the date of submission of the application;

    (k) Has not had adjudication of guilt withheld or imposition of sentence suspended on any felony or misdemeanor crime of domestic violence unless 3 years have elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled, or the record has been sealed or expunged;

    (l) Has not been issued an injunction that is currently in force and effect and that restrains the applicant from committing acts of domestic violence or acts of repeat violence; and

    (m) Is not prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm by any other provision of Florida or federal law.

    (3) The Department of State shall deny a license if the applicant has been found guilty of, had adjudication of guilt withheld for, or had imposition of sentence suspended for one or more crimes of violence constituting a misdemeanor, unless 3 years have elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled or the record has been sealed or expunged. The Department of State shall revoke a license if the licensee has been found guilty of, had adjudication of guilt withheld for, or had imposition of sentence suspended for one or more crimes of violence within the preceding 3 years. The department shall, upon notification by a law enforcement agency, a court, or the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and subsequent written verification, suspend a license or the processing of an application for a license if the licensee or applicant is arrested or formally charged with a crime that would disqualify such person from having a license under this section, until final disposition of the case. The department shall suspend a license or the processing of an application for a license if the licensee or applicant is issued an injunction that restrains the licensee or applicant from committing acts of domestic violence or acts of repeat violence.
    that looks fairly strict to me? where is the problem?
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

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