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Thread: Gun Control, my view..........long **** post

  1. #17
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    Alexis posted above look good but his country alone has changed alot in the last 12 years as far as homicide rates.
    Yes 44 people killed last year in gun-related crimes in his country is truly a horrer. Compare that to the united states (taking into account population), and we still have a much much much higher rate of gun crime. And much of europe has a strict gun controls also, and their way down there too, much of them. Thats not a coincidence

    Alright, I can say that the post you made is very impressive. First I would like to say thank you. Secondly, my apologies but I don’t have the patience to do a bit-by-bit analysis and proper response such a thing requires. I could find stats that back uo or refute what you have, but I honestly don’t know where to begin looking. More importantly, I don’t have the time or motivation to do it. So, yeh.

    So i asked for your opinion and got it. I want really looking for a dabete i have little energy for. I just wanted to hear your side. I got it so i am happy.
    that makes no logic

  2. #18
    rattler's Avatar
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    glad you approve

    please remember im not looking at gun-related crime on its own.

    Your chances of being mugged in London are now 6 times greater than in New York. England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are far higher than America's, and 53% of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13% in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police.
    these crimes dont necessarily involve guns, however i believe, as i have tried to point out private gun ownership and can drastically drop that. it is also of my understanding that if you fight off an attacker and that attacker is hurt in the UK you will be charged with a crime, as self defense is not permitted under British law.

    In 1994 an English home-owner, armed with a toy gun, managed to detain two burglars who had broken into his house while he called the police. When the officers arrived, they arrested the home-owner for using an imitation gun to threaten or intimidate. In a similar incident the following year, when an elderly woman fired a toy cap pistol to drive off a group of youths who were threatening her, she was arrested for putting someone in fear.
    do you really think the British approach is so much better?
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  3. #19
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    these crimes dont necessarily involve guns, however i believe, as i have tried to point out private gun ownership and can drastically drop that
    Fine! let them have their pistols and shotguns, i dont care if people have those or not. I think people should be able to own handguns, shotguns, and rifles. Those are fine. I even own a handgun back home, not that i am good with it. I think those are fine. Its everything else that i think should go.

    attacker is hurt in the UK you will be charged with a crime, as self defense is not permitted under British law.
    Do you seriously believe that?


    In 1994 an English home-owner, armed with a toy gun, managed to detain two burglars who had broken into his house while he called the police. When the officers arrived, they arrested the home-owner for using an imitation gun to threaten or intimidate. In a similar incident the following year, when an elderly woman fired a toy cap pistol to drive off a group of youths who were threatening her, she was arrested for putting someone in fear.
    Puh-lease rattler, you and i both know that using the internet we could dredge up any silly incident to make this and many other governments laws look absolutely ridiculous. You see them in the news aot in some places. You hear about them. One incident doesnt mean anything, nor is it a reliable indicator of overall policy
    that makes no logic

  4. #20
    rattler's Avatar
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    well ive seen enough cases that i believe its not a right to defend yourself in the UK. ive seen enough cases that there is a distinct possibility for you going to jail for protecting your own family and property in the UK, much more so than here


    Its everything else that i think should go.
    elaborate please
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  5. #21
    Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, England PlantAKiss's Avatar
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    Wow. That's a lot of statistics to soak in. I know you worked hard on that. And its a MUCH better post than the other ones. :P

    However...it doesn't change my mind on gun control. The infamous "right to bear arms" that was instituted back in colonial times just doesn't appy to today. We have all manner of military groups to protect the country as a whole, some of whom are called to duty during times of crisis (assorted national disasters) to protect citizens as well as in wars.

    I always hear "I have a right to protect myself, my family and my property." I know a lot of people who have guns and I don't know one single person who has EVER had to use it to shoot someone to save themselves or family member. I know that's not an official statistic, but I still think the ratio of number of guns used to commit crimes vs. instances where a gun saved a life in a threatening situation is waaaaaay out of balance. Let's say I owned a gun and had it safely put away as one should. I'm at the kitchen washing dishes with my back door open because its a nice day (as it usually is). All of a sudden someone walks through my back door and points a gun at me. What good is my gun going to do me? Do I tell the perpetrator "Hold on a second while I go get my gun."?? For a weapon to be effective as protection, you'd have to have it on your person and loaded 24/7. So you want everybody walking around with loaded guns on their person? All to easy to use it when someone is enraged or alcohol fogs judgements.

    I think also this is very different culture we live in. People might scoff at this, but we are producing generations of youth that grew up spending hours and hours playing video games, the vast majority of which are based on violence (guns, shootings, etc.). I can't quote the exact statistic but just a couple of days ago I saw a report by a psychologist that stated EVERY study on that subject revealed that kids that played a lot of violent video games displayed increased aggression as well as a decreased sensitivity in regards to death and violence. It is beyond me how anyone can think kids can play these types of games for hours over many years and NOT have it influence them in a negative way. (And before anybody says anything, I'm not saying EVERYONE who played video games is going to be a killer).

    Then you have all the accidental deaths. Everyone I know swears their guns are locked safely away from children. But kids get accidently shot every day.

    Rattler, I'm sure you know all the safety laws and you are very careful and respectful of your weapons. But just because YOU are, doesn't mean every gun owner out there is as good about that as you are. There is no "right to bear arms" that means so much to me its worth the life of all the children that die by accidental gun shots every year. The fact is some people look at guns like its a book or a vase. They leave them out on tables, they stick them under mattresses (and think its safe from a child!), they tuck 'em in a drawer. Little kids explore. They find. They shoot.

    Then you got your nutcases. With dr./patient privilege laws, there's no way to know who's mentally able to SAFELY own a gun and who's not. And so there was Cho. And many, many other mass killers. And individual killers. And drug dealers getting revenge, and gang members defending turf. There are thousands of people out there who don't own a gun so they can shoot a deer for meat during the winter. They own it to kill people for any number of stupid reasons.

    I can see no reason anyone NEEDS to own assault rifles/guns, machine guns, etc. WHY would ANYONE need a machine gun??

    I saw one guy on TV vehemently saying that if those students and teachers had been allowed to carry weapons at the school, not so many people would have been killed at Tech. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard! Can you imagine have 25 teenagers in a classroom with guns? Teens don't always have the best judgement and I can just see the bodies falling as tempers flare over a girl or someone's had a few too many beers and get belligerent.

    Self defense is just a poor reason to allow MILLIONS of guns into the hands of anybody who wants one. Too many people are accidently hurt or deliberately killed by guns. Its one thing to have A gun to hunt for food or to kill a cougar that might come to your back door. But I think "its my right" is a poor reason to allow guns to proliferate in the hands of millions of people.

    I don't have a gun. I don't want a gun. I'll never have a gun. Its just an instrument of death and destruction s far as I'm concerned.

    A survey I saw on TV yesterday showed the majority in the country wanted more gun control (I think it was 43%). I think it was only 11% who wanted less control.
    "Fox terriers are born with about four times as much original sin in them as other dogs." - Jerome K. Jerome

  6. #22
    Stop having a boring tuna, stop having a boring life! neon-eon's Avatar
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    Wow... Rattler...you should have written my Junior research paper last year man

    -Gabe
    -No matter what you do with your life, I still care about you. -Mr P.

  7. #23
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Oh God I love Grand Theft Auto and I have to admit I'm desensitized. Or it could be because I want the news every day.

  8. #24
    rattler's Avatar
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    PAK, thanks for the comments, please keep in mind i twisted my knee working out in the yard today and im a lil drugged up so forgive me if i have to restate something later

    I know that's not an official statistic, but I still think the ratio of number of guns used to commit crimes vs. instances where a gun saved a life in a threatening situation is waaaaaay out of balance.
    i dont know statistics for "saving someones life"................however studies of the number of crimes that have be stopped by Joe Citizen with a firearm have been done by most every pro and anti gun group, do to prejudices and variances in how the data was collected: lowball is 600,000 per year the high end is 6 million per year. truth is prolly somewhere in the middle. thats the best answer i can give you on that.

    But kids get accidently shot every day.
    only quick stats i can find you are for 1995
    fatal accidents for Children 14 and Under

    Motor Vehicles 3,059
    Drownings 1,024
    Fires 883
    Choking 213
    Firearm 181 (2.7% of fatal accidents)
    Falls 127
    Poisonings 80
    i also found that fatal gun accidents involving children (aged 0-14) also fell significantly, from 495 in 1975, to under 250 in 1995.

    a child is far more likely to be murdered by their parent that accidentally accidentally be shot by a firearm.

    A survey I saw on TV yesterday showed the majority in the country wanted more gun control (I think it was 43%). I think it was only 11% who wanted less control.
    do you have any clue how many of those ive seen this week? ive seen them all from showing the above to the the exact opposite and everything in between.................please tell me your smarter than to use a damn TV poll for data. the ppl who make these polls know what the answer is going to be before they even start the poll they word the questions to get the answer they want

    I think also this is very different culture we live in. People might scoff at this, but we are producing generations of youth that grew up spending hours and hours playing video games, the vast majority of which are based on violence (guns, shootings, etc.). I can't quote the exact statistic but just a couple of days ago I saw a report by a psychologist that stated EVERY study on that subject revealed that kids that played a lot of violent video games displayed increased aggression as well as a decreased sensitivity in regards to death and violence. It is beyond me how anyone can think kids can play these types of games for hours over many years and NOT have it influence them in a negative way.
    you describe my brother....................infact hes across the street from me now at a friends on a marathon bloody video game session........he is normal and well adjusted. hes a football player, though he only joined cause he thought he needed exercise. he is in speach and drama and getting ready to perform in the school play here shortly. he is also a B student taking college prep classes as well as holding down a job. his friends are in the same boat.
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

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