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zeitgeist the movie

  • Thread starter jiana54
  • Start date
  • #21
i was talking in general and not about religion in particular. Or really talking about the movie. Just observations in general... but i completely agree with what you have said about the bible stories and such. To me those facts seem sound... but to some others it wouldnt mean anything. And thats OK too. thats what i was talking about.
 
  • #22
I used to be very weary of views contrary to my own. I had this notion that I knew everything I needed in order to make an informed decision (about religion and society in general). The truth is, is that none of us know everything we need to know. We can, and should, always look to alternative views and assess their validity critically. Of course, that means we must actually listen to these alternative views.

I take it you didn't even watch the video Outsiders71. That would be fine, except that you presume to know the content of the video based on a brief synopsis and your previous experience. The truth is, the video doesn't deny a God. The video simply shows the correlations between Astronomy, past religions (predating Christianity), and Jesus. While Jesus is viewed as some as the same as God (the holy trinity), the video does not bash, or belittle evidence of a God. It is interesting to note the amazing amount of correlations between past deities, and Jesus.

I myself used to be highly religious (christian) and touted the teachings of the bible as indisputable. Then I saw all the wrong that is done in the name of religion (more people have been killed in the name of religion than any other reason). I saw how some of the most religious people are the most abused, exploited, and manipulated people. They are also some of the poorest people (majority believers), content in their sanctuary of religion.

I still do believe in God... the difference is, is that I do not ascribe myself to any particular religion. I believe that all matter in life, indeed existence, was put here by something, someone. While it has been proven however, that electrons randomly appear in a vacuum for a fraction of a second, and so matter may have evolved likewise... something created the rules of our world, and those very electrons.

As for the rest of the video, much of it is documented... that's what I don't understand about all the so called "controversy". I don't think anyone should take one source as all inclusive. Rather, use these sources as just that... sources. An author doesn't write a book by using just one source, they use many. Use this merely as just one source. Seek out alternative views, and alternative sources, but don't discredit one before even hearing it.

EDIT: BTW JLAP, whether or not you believe in part 1, or even part 2 for that matter... pay close attention to part 3... That part has been extensively well documented, and it can and has been proven. It is a scary truth, and only adds credence to the rest of the video.
 
  • #23
One of my main issues with the Bible, and this eludes too many people, is that it was written by MAN (multiple). This gives it no more credibility than anything else written by men, or this video for that matter. Also it was written over a period of over 1000 years, and some of it, many decades after the passing of christ. If someone today wrote of the teachings of God (that they personally experienced), or his "son", we might call them crazy. But because it comes from a time which we have no other record of, we validate it?
 
  • #24
I take it you didn't even watch the video Outsiders71. That would be fine, except that you presume to know the content of the video based on a brief synopsis and your previous experience.

Honestly I didn't watch the video but that is mostly because it's 2 hours long ;). I was responding to Jiana's post.

The video simply shows the correlations between Astronomy, past religions (predating Christianity), and Jesus. While Jesus is viewed as some as the same as God (the holy trinity), the video does not bash, or belittle evidence of a God. It is interesting to note the amazing amount of correlations between past deities, and Jesus.

Why is it surprising that people from the past could come to the conclusion that there is some kind of supreme being (God)? Which one of those past deities lived a life devoid of sin and willingly took the wrath of God for all sin?

I myself used to be highly religious (christian) and touted the teachings of the bible as indisputable. Then I saw all the wrong that is done in the name of religion (more people have been killed in the name of religion than any other reason). I saw how some of the most religious people are the most abused, exploited, and manipulated people. They are also some of the poorest people (majority believers), content in their sanctuary of religion.

Maybe the problem is you developed a relationship with the religion and knowledge instead of with Jesus? Kind of like how the Pharisees lost sight of God but were highly religious. When God in human flesh (Jesus) stood in front of them they didn't even know who it was, but they knew all the laws and all of the Torah.

Your right that the Bible and organized religion has been abused in the past and today but what does that have to do with your relationship with God? God didn't do those things, it was man. Seriously take a look around this world, it's fallen and without Jesus there is no hope. Look what happened after Katrina. Stores were robbed, people were mugged, and evacuees in the New Orleans football dome (sorry the name escapes me) were raped! You would think in a time as chaotic as that, that people would come together and help each other out. You know what happened? The true nature of people showed, instead of helping out they abused the situation for their gain. People drove down to New Orleans and pretended to be victims of Katrina to get those $5,000 relief credit cards! Same thing is going on in Southern California. You have people purposely setting fires, destroying homes and looting houses and other scams. A year ago in my area we had a bad, bad rain and everywhere was flooded. Main roads had to be closed. Basements were heavily flooded and big appliances were put outside to prevent damage. Guess what people did over here? They stole the appliances from the people's yards! I can go on and on about how wicked people really are. It should be no surprise that institutions that are supposed to be for God can be abused. That doesn't mean you have to go along with it, if you see the abuse do something about it! Expose it! Jesus warned us that things like this would happen and that there will be a price to pay for those people.

I still do believe in God... the difference is, is that I do not ascribe myself to any particular religion. I believe that all matter in life, indeed existence, was put here by something, someone. While it has been proven however, that electrons randomly appear in a vacuum for a fraction of a second, and so matter may have evolved likewise... something created the rules of our world, and those very electrons.

Forget religion. Find a church that is passionate for Jesus and uses the Bible. Then work on your relationship with Jesus.
 
  • #25
Why is it surprising that people from the past could come to the conclusion that there is some kind of supreme being (God)?

Uhh... that isn't what I said. It's not surprising they came to the conclusion that there is some kind of God. I'm talking about other correlations. As in, the exact birthdate of Jesus, the types of miracles performed by Jesus, that jesus was born by a virgin, the "nicknames" of Jesus, that Jesus was dead for 3 days and then resurrected, and many others. The correlations had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that past civilzations had come to the conclusion that there is some kind of supreme being... I don't even know where you got that idea from.

Your right that the Bible and organized religion has been abused in the past and today but what does that have to do with your relationship with God?.

Umm absolutely nothing... it has something to do with my relationship with religion, not God. Again, I think you are reading what you want to read.

Forget religion. Find a church that is passionate for Jesus and uses the Bible. Then work on your relationship with Jesus.

I don't believe in Jesus. Why would I work on a relationship with something I don't believe in? I'd rather work on my relationship with God (while you recognize them as one and the same, I do not. I find Christ to be a manifestation of man). And BTW, you know believing in Jesus Christ denotes a religion right? CHRISTianity. Other religions believe in God without believing in Jesus.

I'm sorry if my views offend anyone, but as they are my beliefs I am entitled to them. I do not want to push them off to anyone else either. Rather, I simply wish to present evidence to the contrary and let others make the decision for themselves.
 
  • #26
One of my main issues with the Bible, and this eludes too many people, is that it was written by MAN (multiple). This gives it no more credibility than anything else written by men, or this video for that matter. Also it was written over a period of over 1000 years, and some of it, many decades after the passing of christ. If someone today wrote of the teachings of God (that they personally experienced), or his "son", we might call them crazy. But because it comes from a time which we have no other record of, we validate it?

THANK YOU! They didn't even include all of the books in the first place! I don't see why you'd even apologize for your views possible offending anyone. You're views are nothing unusual or offensive. Would you call yourself Jewish? It took me quite a while to realize that I could love God/Jesus and hate religion at the same time :) I still think organized religions is one of the poisons of society. I don't think God gives a rat's behind about how many hail Mary's you recite or how many times you pray. I think God is above ritualism. It also took me a long time to realize that God, for me at least, isn't some old man on a throne constantly judging you and demanding that you "be good" or burn in hell forever.

I dunno. Call me crazy but I think life is about being happy. I think if you want to be a Christian, a Buddhist, a Wiccan, Muslim, or worship owls or even barn owls, go for it if that's what you want to do. Don't worship anything at all if that's what you want to do, either. I won't try to change you if you don't try to change me. Hear that, Jehovah's witnesses!?!?! I've come to the conclusion that whether you believe in a deity/deities, or don't believe in anything at all, spiritual/religious matters are so multifaceted that there's never a simple answer to your problem. Unless you're weak minded and don't have any questions in the first place.
 
  • #27
THANK YOU! They didn't even include all of the books in the first place! I don't see why you'd even apologize for your views possible offending anyone. You're views are nothing unusual or offensive. Would you call yourself Jewish? It took me quite a while to realize that I could love God/Jesus and hate religion at the same time :) I still think organized religions is one of the poisons of society. I don't think God gives a rat's behind about how many hail Mary's you recite or how many times you pray. I think God is above ritualism. It also took me a long time to realize that God, for me at least, isn't some old man on a throne constantly judging you and demanding that you "be good" or burn in hell forever.

I dunno. Call me crazy but I think life is about being happy. I think if you want to be a Christian, a Buddhist, a Wiccan, Muslim, or worship owls or even barn owls, go for it if that's what you want to do. Don't worship anything at all if that's what you want to do, either. I won't try to change you if you don't try to change me. Hear that, Jehovah's witnesses!?!?! I've come to the conclusion that whether you believe in a deity/deities, or don't believe in anything at all, spiritual/religious matters are so multifaceted that there's never a simple answer to your problem. Unless you're weak minded and don't have any questions in the first place.

Go JLAP!
After seeing that film, I'm now off to make the world a better place. Where do I start......................
 
  • #28
so is there any way we can not turn this into a religious discussion? I mean... its rather unproductive and has a nasty tendency to degrade as it goes on.
 
  • #29
Sure. We could also talk about 911 and banking conspiracies. Pick your poison :-))
 
  • #30
so is there any way we can not turn this into a religious discussion? I mean... its rather unproductive and has a nasty tendency to degrade as it goes on.

I only mentioned it because it is a part of the documentary. And I wouldn't necessarily call it unproductive... Without discourse we are empty.
 
  • #31
When the threads that get into this debate get locked because of flaming, i consider it unproductive. Obviously that’s not always the case, but when everyone is entrenched in their beliefs and feel like they cant give an inch, it not pretty. Sometimes it just seems we are argung the same arguments with the same points over and over again.
 
  • #32
No one here is flaming... and given the proper argument, I'm always willing to give an inch =). I would never flame someone for their religious beliefs, as some of the most important people in my life are highly religious.
 
  • #34
Wow so i just watched this movie and it is amazing. Alot of the things that they talk about a very interesting... i guess it is just nice for once to get another side of the story instead of listening about the same exact thing.

Worth Watching

-Ryan
 
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