What's new
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Cheaters do win...barry bonds!

  • Thread starter obregon562
  • Start date
  • #21
The Beatles would have wrote Sgt. Pepper if they had not taken LSD?

They went from singing " I wanna hold your hand" to "I am the Walrus" in a very short period of time. Drugs had nothing to do with that?


no...drugs had a LOT to do with that. same goes for led zeppellin, syd barrett, metallica, pink floyd, the who.....i could go on and on naming a bunch of great bands. they all, at one point, did drugs and look what it did, it enhanced our lives.

the comparison of the use of drugs in the MLB is irrelevant to the use of drugs in the music industry. they are two totally different things. the music industry evolves EVERY generation. baseball doesnt. same rules, regulations, song during the 7th inning stretch...blah blah blah

one of reasons (IMHO) why mlb fans are iffy about bonds is because of the fact that he used steroids to get to the 700 club. the 2 other players were able to get 700 HRs without using steroids. can barry not do it? did he have to use steroids just so he can get 700 HRs?

also, when bonds was in the league when the rule came out against steroids. then actually admitted to using it. he was inarguably a hall of famer but the reason people are iffy is because steroids causes you to do a sport a lot better than other players in the league. is that fair? bonds did the roids just to be the best - for vanity reasons. there are kids in the minors who would do it just so they can get in the pros. there are older athletes who might be doing it just so they can last longer in the league. i wouldnt be surprised if randy johnson came out one day and say "hey, the reason i can still pitch on a messed up back is because of the roids". barry bonds took steroids for the opposite reason. he did it so he can look good and get more money and MVP awards.

bonds might've revolutionized baseball by having the record for stolen bases, hrs, walks, and maybe a bunch of other crazy stuff but again, he admitted to using steroids just so he can advance.

im not proof reading this so sorry if it looks kooky
 
  • #22
Well, can't you understand why someone would do less than honorable activities to get ahead?

Besides, you can certainly have a script for steroids and it doesn't count as abuse if you really need them. At the same time, if you take them, stop and let your levels go down, then go to the doctor you can get a script for more roids because he'll see that your levels are lower than normal.
 
  • #23
I just get satisfaction that he has to live with himself and the shadows that will always hang over him. In the grand scheme of things, anyone that dodges the issues like he has may not in fact be guilty but is certainly not brave enough to try and make a difference; just like Mark McGwire.

Geez. Is my point all THAT obscure? Yes, sports IS entertainment but the entertainment is the COMPETITION.

Wait, PAK. What about battle of the bands contests?! lol. Just kidding!

xvart.
 
  • #24
Well, can't you understand why someone would do less than honorable activities to get ahead?


yes i can. afterall, i was one of those dorky kids in high school who always got picked last 'cuz i was just really bad at sports.
 
  • #25
yes i can. afterall, i was one of those dorky kids in high school who always got picked last 'cuz i was just really bad at sports.

And now all those kids that picked on you are probably people that have beer guts and sit around talking about how cool they were in high school when they won the state championship.

xvart.
 
  • #26
You should see this one documentary called 'The Man Whos Arms Exploded'. Now THAT is steroid abuse.

I'm no baseball fan, so I don't really have an accurate opinion on Barry Bonds, and whether steroids are okay or not. However, the first time I really looked at a picture of him (in his full baseball gear), the first thing I thought was that he was a middle aged man with some good muscle, not some steroid abusing body builder. He seemed to be nothing an hour or two of workout a day couldn't do. The few times I've played baseball, it seems it was more about timing and precision placement of the bat than pure power. I'm not sure how much steroids affect these aspects of the game. As you read this, though, Keep in mind that I have no idea what I'm talking about.
 
  • #27
My feeling about this matter is this. At the time when Barry was supposedly taking drugs, EVERYONE was pretty much taking them to some degree. I believe that Barry would have been a fool not to. If he did, all he really did was level the playing field.

As someone else said above, homeruns are more about timing and bat speed, not power, so I think he probably still would have broken the record anyway. It just may have taken him a couple years longer.

The fact is that nobody knows for sure if Barry was actually knowingly taking an illegal drug. There are many substances that are "marginal" and if I remember correctly the stuff they said he was taking was not on the official banned list at the time he was supposedly taking them.

Congrats Barry Bonds!! And yes I will be cheering the day he gets inducted into the Hall of Fame.. even if all the rest of the self rightous do-gooders in the world are condemning him. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Steve
 
  • #28
There's an old saying and you youngsters should remember this... "Cheaters sometimes prosper".
 
  • #29
  • #30
You should see this one documentary called 'The Man Whos Arms Exploded'. Now THAT is steroid abuse.

Yeah, it's sick! Actually, I think I saw the clip of someone who's calves exploded; but I'm sure the visuals are fairly similar.

xvart.
 
  • #31
Here's another old saying for you youngsters... "Everyone gets what's coming to them."
 
  • #32
The more I think about it, the more I like that analogy to druggy musicians. It's all entertainment, whether it's watching a druggy baseball player or listening to a druggy rocker. How does the fact that we keep score of one's but not the other's performance mean one's drug use is an outrage and the other's isn't? Should I think less of Jimi Hendrix because his performance was fueled by drugs and instead consider, ummm, Pat Boone to be the truer artist because his performance (I assume) never was? Why is it OK for me to appreciate Hendrix, but not Bonds?

Art is a very competitive world, even if the spectators aren't keeping score. A musician's or a ballerina's competition runs through years of practice and tryouts and performing, just like a baseball player's. Rest assured that all the violin players in the orchestra are scoring their own and their neighbor's performances, because each is trying to get ahead or stay in place and to never fall back. The Beatles and Beach Boys were certainly in competition and there never would have been a Sgt. Pepper's if there hadn't first been a Pet Sounds. Was their (potentially) performance-enhancing drug use OK because it was only the performers who kept track of the score? Did the Beatles have an unfair advantage because Brian Wilson couldn't handle drugs?

What is competition anyway? My wife used to watch a lot of gymnastics & figure skating on TV and, even during the lamest exhibitions, there was often a panel of judges to hand out a score. The "competitors" told the camera about trying to win, but the pacing of their routines showed it was just month 2 of their three month tour. Would a gymnastics audience feel cheated if someone didn't keep score and would they be outraged if some of the performers are downing speed or sudafed? Is a little drug use OK there but not at the Olympics? Would it be more acceptable if they were dancers? I'll often stop for a few minutes and watch little league games when I'm walking past one of the fields in the area. The kids are certainly focused on the score, but I have no idea what it is and couldn't care less who wins. I just like watching baseball. Does my focus on the "art" of baseball mean I shouldn't be bothered if one of them is on steroids? Should I only be offended if I actually care who wins?

Maybe if Barry Bonds were personable, people would ignore the steroid allegations. Or maybe if he were white. Or perhaps if he were a cancer survivor. Or would he also have to be a seven-time winner of the Tour de France? The media says to love Lance Armstrong, so the crowd does. The media says to hate Bonds, so the crowd does. I think it's just a feeding frenzy with a crowd believing whatever it's told to believe. Sports reflecting the rest of life. Everyone into baseball knew about the steroids when Mark McGuire hit his 70 home runs 10(?) years ago. But the media praised the race between McGuire and Sosa, so everything was OK. Now the talking heads say it isn't OK and the same people who showered love on McGuire hate Bonds.

I wasn't going to post in this topic, but finally couldn't resist anymore. I guess reading the following from today's paper inspired me. We take different paths to the same opinion, but he's a much better writer than me. I wonder if there are any drugs for that? Maybe I can win a Pulitzer!

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/commentary/hc-commentarybonds0812.artaug12,0,738435,full.story.
 
  • #33
Music == ART
Baseball == SPORT

Watching baseball may be entertaining to YOU but it consists of athletes competing against one another which effects their own record, salary and their teams win/loss column.

Haven't any of you played sports before? One person cheating ruins the whole game for everyone else.
 
  • #34
And athletic teams represent the communities they come from on a national and international scale. Olympics anyone?

I also don't think that Bonds is the only one taking heat about steroids; however he is the most obvious one since everyone is following the home run race. Anyone who has ever tested positive for steroids has been heckled, booed, and ostracized by the baseball stadiums across the country.

xvart.
 
  • #35
I also don't think that Bonds is the only one taking heat about steroids; however he is the most obvious one since everyone is following the home run race. Anyone who has ever tested positive for steroids has been heckled, booed, and ostracized by the baseball stadiums across the country.

xvart.

exactly. again, i wont be surprised to find out that a-rod is on steroids or randy johnson. i'll be sad if a-rod were ever tested for it. he's a good figure who represents baseball. he doesnt go out and get hammered, act crazy or get into fights with his teammates (unlike carlos zambrano or lou pinella they make baseball players look bad)
 
  • #36
maybe if he were white.

God, please dont go to the race card...

MAYBE if he didn't CHEAT then people would like him more!
 
  • #37
Watching baseball may be entertaining to YOU but it consists of athletes competing against one another which effects their own record, salary and their teams win/loss column.

Haven't any of you played sports before? One person cheating ruins the whole game for everyone else.

My point is that people who make their living in the arts are competing no less than people in professional sports. Athletes can only earn even a penny from sports because sports are entertaining to watch. People will pay to attend a game or will watch ads during breaks in the game on TV. Professional athletes are entertainers. Portraying a performance as a competition between cities or universities or nations is just a very effective marketing strategy.

And I wasn't playing the race card, although I admit the racial contrast in Bonds' support is pretty fascinating. I was only listing differences between him and Lance Armstrong, who seems untouchable. Even though his astounding level of performance in one of the druggiest of sports and the allegations against him should be enough for him to be equally hated. I wonder the same about Roger Clemens, whose career had begun to suck before he began bulking up and pitching like a much younger man. With the occasional 'roid rage too. Hey; he and Lance are both from TX! Hmmm . . . maybe we'll accept anything from a Texan.
 
  • #38
i am with you with clemens, he too is a cheat...

maybe we'll accept anything from a Texan

No way!
 
Back
Top