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Don't ask John Kerry questions...or else!

  • #41
Est, you raise many great points. The media coverage will be skewed to bash Kerry or some other non-related issue. The issue here was the excessive police force. I do agree with you that the kid made a scene, and when I first saw the video I almost thought he needed to be shut up. The problem is however, that this was a Q & A where the audience was given the chance to speak up. The student may have spoken hastily, but I believe he was trying to lay down as much information as possible. Then some police officers come up on him and try to to grab him. He asks why he's being arrested and they don't respond (nothing that can be heard or seen on the videos at least). They just keep grabbing him and trying to subdue him. I would not have done the same thing in his situation, but I would be outraged at the arrest. Had I acted as this kid did though, I would not expect to be tased.

Yes I do believe we see eye to eye on much of the issue. In fact Gandhi IS the perfect example of what he should have done once the officers got out of hand (go limp before getting tased). I'm just mostly outraged by the use of the taser, and the fact that the officers were told to throw him out for what he was asking.

I was thinking about the audience clapping a couple seconds after the officers tried to get the guy. Whether or not they were for or against the guy, they got serious and some were telling them to stop with the excessive force. This is especially so, once they start tasing him and he's already pinned on the ground. In the second video you can hear a few people telling them to stop.

The guy IS a retard for acting the way he did, but his actions still, in my opinion, did not warrant the use of a taser once he was already on the ground.
 
  • #42
Phew! I feel safe. I picked up my very own John Kerry Speech survival kit! Inside is a cop horn to stop them from coming near you, an informational guide on how to ask questions to avoid being tased, and a shirt that says, "Don't Taze me Bro!" I'll be okay if I ever decide to go to one.
 
  • #43
They say they're non lethal but they have been used to kill ("subdue" the cops say). They are especilly dangerous t persons with heart problems.

you know, i had a friend who dated a girl with what we will call a "crazy switch". one day she got drunk and started to smack people and the police were called. when they arrived, they tried to settle her down, and she started smacking the cops, so she was tazered. she would not stop, her blind rage could not be subdued. she was tazed repeatedly for over 20 minutes while the police struggled to get her cuffed and in the back of a police car. she probably weighed about 90 lbs, and was fine the next day. you cannot "taze someone in the heart". the prods stick in less than an inch in your skin, and the current applied (which is the heart stopping aspect of electricity) is not enough to cause an arc that would disrupt heart function unless perhaps the prods were on opposing sides of the body, such as on the chest and back, which is not possible. it could interact with a pacemaker, but i don't understand how anyone with a pacemaker would be stupid enough to get to the point of tazering by the police.

you know, i dont understand why some people have such issues with police. finch is right in saying they cant win. yes, it is true that there are bad cops out there who make grievous mistakes, but not all cops are bad.

you just gotta ask yourself, if you hate them all so much, how would you feel if they simply weren't there?
 
  • #44
I'd be happy until something bad happened. Then I'd have the freedom to take the law into my own hands. Or pay someone else to :)
 
  • #46
I wonder if it's because this is the first war in which most people aren't affected. No one I know (nor myself) has been affected and the only change in our lives is gas prices and more war related stuff on the news.

It does seem like America is turning into a dictatorship. Free speach zones? Come on. Reminds me of some futuristic dystopian novel. At least soon we'll all have free health care and we can all get soma ....Did I say soma? I MEAN PROZAC!



JK, I think government HC is good.
 
  • #47
The words universal health care sound like some Utopian dream. Imagine health care for everyone. Do you really think the quality of health care a universal health care system funded by the government will be good? Chances are we'll be worse off with crappy health care and at the same time more taxes...
 
  • #48
Do you really think the quality of health care a universal health care system funded by the government will be good?

It's better than none at all.

xvart.
 
  • #49
EXACTLY! And this isn't about not allowing people to have private health care (like they should if they can afford it) it's about giving health care to anyone who wants it.
 
  • #51
EXACTLY! And this isn't about not allowing people to have private health care (like they should if they can afford it) it's about giving health care to anyone who wants it.

So you don't think that employers will drop health care plans unilaterally? If there's a free universal health care system, they no longer have to provide benefits. If private health care is still around if this were to happen the only people who could afford it would be the upper tier.
 
  • #52
I'm totally against universal health care for two important reasons. Number one being I don't want to be taxed 40% or more of my income like a lot of those countries do (Germany, New Zealand, etc). The cost of universal healthcare systems are astronomical. When doing something like that, doctors don't make as much money, and subsequently tend to not have large incentive to do the absolute best job possible, and therefore quality of care is lower. We have some of, if not the best medical care in the world. I know what you're going to say..."to those who can afford it". If they can't, that sucks, but it's not my problem. This is a free-market (sort of) economy, and I'm a true Darwinist. If you can't survive, thats your problem, not mine, afterall this isn't communism. Because someone is too lazy or too stupid to get a proper education, and thus must work a low-paying job, and that results in me having to pay more to cover them, I really have no sympathy. And before someone opens their mouth about "everyone isn't afforded the same opportunities", remind yourself that this is America and its not the 19th century. Numerous loans and grants are available, and there is no excuse for not even attending a community college. Thats why healthcare is so expensive: the ones who can pay are paying for those who can't (BS!). For what you pay to insurance, doctor's fees etc cover about 20%, and the insurance companies themselves take about 30%. The only way to make the situation better is to regulate the unchecked amount of money insurance companies are allowed to receive, and especially impose at least SOME control on the pharmaceutical industry. They don't even have to publicly report earnings, and its estimated that some companies make in the hundreds of billions. These companies spend about 10x more on advertising than on R&D and production combined. Something needs to be done about that first before the rest of the system can be fixed.

The second reason I'm against it is because of money. Doctors make a pretty decent living, but its decreasing every year. Why? We have one of the highest doctor to patient ratios of the developed nations. Our doctors are also disproportionately distributed (almost none in rural areas). Doctors salaries MUST be high, or else no one would do it. Instituting national health care would bring the average doctor's salary down to about 75k. The average debt after graduating med school is $160-200,000. After graduation, you are looking at 2-8 years of making only about $35k, barely enough to live in this godawful economy these days. Therefore, for the first year alone, with an interest rate of 8% (which if IIRC its more like 10-12%), you have to repay $14,000 just to not have interest accumulate. Also, think of the job a doctor is doing. Not only do most doctors consider a 40 hour work week "part time", since most work something like 80 hour weeks with no "overtime" compensation, but they are exposed to very hazardous conditions on a daily basis. If I am legally obligated to treat someone with HIV that in doing so, might result in my eventual death....I need a lot of money to do that or else I'll go find another job. The average physician has an IQ of about 130, and represents the top 2% of the brain power in the nation. If they don't get paid well for the awful conditions they work in, they'll just go get another job, and there will be even less doctors (and we clearly don't need that, even now). Would you accept a wage of say, $75,000 if you rarely got to see your family, were put in daily danger, had to sacrifice your 20s, etc? I sure as hell wouldn't. I really want to help people and develop new techniques/procedures etc to better the human condition, but if national healthcare is ever instituted, it won't be worth it. In a way I'm worried about it, but doctors do have a decent amount of political power, which seems to be slightly increasing. Even if they didn't, since the government can't force you to remain employed or force you to work a particular job (yet, lol), most doctors will quit. I think thats the reason national health care hasn't happened yet. Within a week of doctors quitting (which trust me, would happen), a pretty significant amount of people would be eliminated via various illnesses and conditions, and as atrocious as our government is, that's not something that they're going to want on their hands.

Sorry for the rant and the length of such, but I am getting increasingly furious listening to people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about repeatedly spew forth these stupid (for lack of better word) ideas that doctors make too much money, and that national health care is a good idea (see social security hahahahahahahahahaha)
 
  • #53
I'm a UF student so if any of you guys want me to forward you the e-mails that the university president etc. sent us after the incident, just send me a pm.
 
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