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Thread: Ron Paul 2008 Revolution

  1. #193
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phissionkorps View Post
    Just to add to Mokele's point...

    I majored in Biology, so I took a LOT of bio classes. Through my entire college career, I had a total of 2 bio profs, and 0 physics profs who believed in god. Think about that. The people that study the earth constantly, study life, etc. Grand total of 2 (and I went to college in Germany, then the 2nd most conservative city in the US. We have more churches than bars here). Of the 2 that believed in god, one put it this way:

    "I believe in god, I mean I'm definitely a christian, but if you think creationism was how the world came to be, or if you think evolution didn't happen, even though there is so much insurmountable evidence and indisputable proof for it, you're either completely ignorant, or your IQ is below room temperature, and you should probably go off yourself"

    For anyone that seriously thinks creationism happened, or that the earth is young, or any of that other fairy tale hocus pocus, I strongly suggest Scientists Confront Creationism. It doesn't take very long to read it in it's entirety. The book is great because it presents creationist arguments, then systematically tears them asunder via logic, rational thought, and indisputable fact.
    You can't disprove one faith with another faith. It's a shame as a Bio major that you didn't learn what a scientific theory is and isn't. There are many Biologists who are Christian who don't believe in all the aspects of evolution. In fact there's a pretty high prestigious U.S. Lab that has fired a Biologist because one day him and his boss were talking in the office and he told his boss he doesn't believe in evolution, but in God. Little after that he was harassed and then fired, because of his beliefs. He was an expert in what he was hired to do. His faith did not hinder his work performance. He is now currently suing his workplace for this.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...32514220071207
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  2. #194
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phissionkorps View Post


    Did you miss Mokele's post? The fact that evolution happens is indisputeable fact. No real scientists would laugh at it, or say that it doesn't exist. What alternate universe do you live in?
    I can prove evolution in the lab in less than 24 hours.

    Theories don't require faith. Theories are theories because scientists like to cover their bases, and if something can't be proven in all cases, but still can in 99% of them, its a theory.
    I cordially invite you to go back to 8th grade biology immediately.
    Actually I just finished another semester of Biology this last semester and received a B-, at a college level. Theories cannot be proven, and TRUE scientists will not tell you that they can be proven. They will tell you that a theory is the best scientific explanation for a phenomena, based upon what can be observed and tested. It is not TRUTH, it is not FACT, it's a THEORY. Theories can and some have been disproved. Either way it takes faith to believe in them, just as it takes faith for me to believe in God.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  3. #195

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    No theory or hypothesis can be proven true, they can only be proven false. This is the nature of science. The way we get "facts" is through continual failure to falsify a hypothesis. This said if your going to argue that this disproves evolution you need to destory all technology as magic and heresy as technology is integrally intertwined with science. That means you need to stop using your computer as the physics that allow electricity are false as it cant be proven true and is likely the result of a group of wizards down at the power plant who use the power lines and electric meters for show.

    Also the difference between micro evolution and macro evolution is nothing. You are just taking a "snapshot" of the process when you examine micro evolution. they use the same mechanism and follow the same rules. Truly I want someone to show me how different micro and macro evolution are. I think it is something a lot of people use to satiate the creationists.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  4. #196
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktulu View Post
    That means you need to stop using your computer as the physics that allow electricity are false as it cant be proven true and is likely the result of a group of wizards down at the power plant who use the power lines and electric meters for show.
    I was wondering what that group of hooded people were doing when I drove by the power plant...

    xvart.
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  5. #197
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    This is a little off tangent but found it interesting nonetheless. I was at my local zoo today and learned something new about Koalas. Apparently the Eucalyptus leaves (the only food source of a Koala) contain cyanide and sedatives. The person there was trying to explain to me that the Koalas evolved to be able to eat the Eucalyptus without dying. Lets think about this for a second. If the original Koala could not eat Eucalyptus without dying, then how did it "evolve" over a period of time to withstand the lethal amounts of cyanide?
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  6. #198

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    How can you work in a scientific institution...with science...if you can't accept a VERY basic truth? If the guy rejects evolution, he is mentally ill, and unfit to perform his duties. Its like being hired as a physicist for NASA, but saying you have religious objections to believing in trig.

    I think you're really missing out on the whole theory process...when a theory becomes a law, etc. Based on your knowledge of biology, I have serious doubts about the efficacy and credibility of your institution. Your location says Ohio...where do you go? Mt. Vernon Nazerene? Ohio Christian? Tri-State Bible College? Theories are certainly testable, thats how they become laws, and thats why they exist. Because they started out as a hypothesis that was systematically proven enough times/in enough situations to become a theory. Here's a definition of a theory:

    "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world"
    Did you see that? Well substantiated! How can you substantiate something if you can't prove it or test it? Most theories tend to be generally accepted, and do not take faith. They take looking at evidence and making a decision. Not sitting around having blind totally unproveable faith in some delusional mythological fairy tale about a deplorable psychotic maniac. I think you're missing some things as well. Evolution occuring...is a FACT. If you don't accept that, you don't deserve an education.

    "Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.

    - Stephen J. Gould, " Evolution as Fact and Theory"; Discover, May 1981"

    "Let me try to make crystal clear what is established beyond reasonable doubt, and what needs further study, about evolution. Evolution as a process that has always gone on in the history of the earth can be doubted only by those who are ignorant of the evidence or are resistant to evidence, owing to emotional blocks or to plain bigotry. By contrast, the mechanisms that bring evolution about certainly need study and clarification. There are no alternatives to evolution as history that can withstand critical examination. Yet we are constantly learning new and important facts about evolutionary mechanisms.
    - Theodosius Dobzhansky "Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution", American Biology Teacher vol. 35 (March 1973) reprinted in Evolution versus Creationism, J. Peter Zetterberg ed., ORYX Press, Phoenix AZ 1983"

    Booyah

    Actually I just finished another semester of Biology this last semester and received a B-, at a college level
    Uhh I got all As in my last 5 bio classes. One of them was Organic Evolution. I ended one class with a 105....Evolution and Classification of Plants. You wouldn't happen to be in bio for nonmajors at Ohio Christian University would you?

    Also the difference between micro evolution and macro evolution is nothing. You are just taking a "snapshot" of the process when you examine micro evolution. they use the same mechanism and follow the same rules. Truly I want someone to show me how different micro and macro evolution are. I think it is something a lot of people use to satiate the creationists.
    Can we please enable giving reputation points so I can give ktulu some props?
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  7. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capslock View Post
    Wow, we agree on a lot of things, Rattler. Not necessarily how to get there, but I feel like we have the same sensibilities, but the Supreme Court justices are among the main reasons I would not vote for any Republican. I find they don't follow the Constitution at all, in my opinion, and instead usually side with authoritarian interference. Especially on issues like search and seizure, assisted suicide, free speech, medical marijuana, abortion, and most other non-gun related personal freedoms. We had a relatively liberal Supreme Court for a lot of years there, and you still can own all your guns more easily than some carnivorous plants, so I don't think there's much to worry about there. A surprising number of liberals would be very upset if they came for our guns.

    Capslock

    how bout this Caps......we get the rulings through from the current supreme court that will rule that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right, protected by the constitution. so that cities cant ban them like DC did, and ill go along with the more liberal judges to get the rest of the stuff through.....since the courts inseption we have one ruling on the second amendment and its a piss poor one. we NEED this ruling on the DC case and our current Supreme court line up is our best shot we are prolly ever going to have at getting it through.....they should rule on it in the next few months. after which we may be able to re evalate what kinda candidate im looking for.
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  8. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktulu View Post
    No theory or hypothesis can be proven true, they can only be proven false. This is the nature of science. The way we get "facts" is through continual failure to falsify a hypothesis.
    We have a winner folks! DING! DING! DING!

    Quote Originally Posted by ktulu View Post
    That means you need to stop using your computer as the physics that allow electricity are false as it cant be proven true and is likely the result of a group of wizards down at the power plant who use the power lines and electric meters for show.
    No it doesn't mean that we should stop using the computer. It means we should start using our brains and distinguish the differences between proving something as a universal truth and saying that "Through rigorous observation and testing we conclude x". There's a big difference.

    Google scientific theories proven wrong. There are plenty of examples out there.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

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