Jewish Rabbis united with Muslims against Zionist racism!

[zappafan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuSlsiW9hT8

I totally love these statements of truth, I really like Rabbi Weiss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9OIqy6md9w

 

[phissionkorps]

Can I get a transcript of that somewhere? He's got a good message (I think?), but his voice makes me wanna slit my own throat just so I don't have to hear it anymore.

 

[zappafan]

Hi Phission, I don't know of a transcript. But I am so happy there are some Torah believing Jews out there who oppose the hateful racist elitism known as Zionism and regard the Torah rather than the Babylonian Talmud and the Cabala.
I know youtube has alot on rabbi Weiss. Here is his website:http://www.nkusa.org/activities/Statements/2006Jan27Hamas.cfm

 

[Clint]

Well... Zionism is not a racist movement. There is racism in it... but it's not like the Ku Klux Klan. That said, Zionism is a bunch of crap IMO. They have no claim to that land. The LEAST they could do is share it, but no... all or nothing. Damn 'Partition'.... it's segregation is what it is. 'Because God promised it to us blah blah blah' makes me sick thinking of what they did (are doing) to the Palestinians. That is NOT to say the Palestinians in general have handled things appropriately. Damn UN, too. You'd expect better from them.

Well, I just broke my new year's resolution lol. Where did my stoicism go?

 

[celox]

the only reason it had a chance to exist (the claimed land) is because it got recognized by the usa.
And the USA recognized it because the president needed votes, and it just so happens that the USA has a large jew-community. The president took the shot, don't know if it worked didn't bother to read further down the article

Worst part is that they didn't mind the UN's advice about taking just a portion of the land, they took it all. Because they were 'entitled to it', because so many years ago they lived there.

 

[jimscott]

My understanding of Zionism was that its basic attempt was to provide a Jewish homeland in what used to be where Israel was, after the Romans defeated them in a war (70 AD), which led to a major dispersion of Jews. Ever since 70 AD they have been invited to one country and eventually kicked out, only to be allowed in another and kicked out again. This had been happening for almost 2 millenia, which explains why there are Jews all over Europe.

Anyways, the thinking was the result of centuries of persecution and dispersion. All they were looking for was a place to live, without being kicked out. Think of it as someone starting the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. It wasn't meant to be exclusive. It was just meant to provide a safe haven for the dispersed Jews.

 

[ktulu]

The movement of Jews from all over the world to modern day Israel started around 1900 or so and has continued to the present day. This movement was spend up greatly by the horrors of the Holocaust during WWII. Israel came into being in 1948 and was created from an internal struggle by the jews backed by western powers against the Palestinians because they believe the land belonged to the Jews and always had. This resulted in the displacement of many Palestinians who were forced onto marginal land and lost their livelihoods for the most part.

The US backs Israel not because there is a large Jewish population in this country, but instead is based on the support of Christians in this country who feel that Israel does belong to the Jews. Their main reason for supporting such a claim is that in the bible it states that Israel must come back into being before the Messiah will return. So essentially the US is supporting Israel to bring about the end of the world faster.

I just wish more people in this country realized the crimes against humanity that we fund with ridiculous amounts of our money. The US spends an average of $11,000 on every Israeli citizen. That in my opinion is a waste of American money. Let Israel take care of its own finical situation.

 

[celox]

My understanding of Zionism was that its basic attempt was to provide a Jewish homeland in what used to be where Israel was, after the Romans defeated them in a war (70 AD), which led to a major dispersion of Jews. Ever since 70 AD they have been invited to one country and eventually kicked out, only to be allowed in another and kicked out again. This had been happening for almost 2 millenia, which explains why there are Jews all over Europe.

Anyways, the thinking was the result of centuries of persecution and dispersion. All they were looking for was a place to live, without being kicked out. Think of it as someone starting the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. It wasn't meant to be exclusive. It was just meant to provide a safe haven for the dispersed Jews.

That does not give them the right to kick others out

The US backs Israel not because there is a large Jewish population in this country, but instead is based on the support of Christians in this country who feel that Israel does belong to the Jews. Their main reason for supporting such a claim is that in the bible it states that Israel must come back into being before the Messiah will return. So essentially the US is supporting Israel to bring about the end of the world faster.

It got recognized because of many different reason, the jewish community, especially after WWII when they didn't put enough pressure to make the gouvernment stop the insanity earlyer, really was pro-zionist. So making such a move as recognizing the state of Israel would make Truman popular among the Jewish community

2 quick facts:
it was an election year and truman needed votes, and the usa was seeking an ally in the middle east (a very important move in foreign politics)

http://zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2007/05/truman-and-birth-of-israel.html
Thats basicly the same as what my history book tells me

 

[phissionkorps]

Let Israel take care of its own finical situation.

Or, let israel take care of itself entirely. We give them so much money even though they have a lower child mortality rate. We keep giving them technological secrets that they keep selling to China and Russia. I can't think of one good thing Israel does for us....
I don't see why we support them militarily at all. IMO, the entire middle east is a (mostly) barren hellhole, clearly devoid of all rational thought, reason, and respect for human life. The only reason we need to get involved "over there" is if it spills out to any normal countries.

 

[Finch]

I heard too much about the Israel/Palestine thing long ago. I used to have a position, but now I cant think of another subject in which I feel so much indifference.

 

[Outsiders71]

The US backs Israel not because there is a large Jewish population in this country, but instead is based on the support of Christians in this country who feel that Israel does belong to the Jews. Their main reason for supporting such a claim is that in the bible it states that Israel must come back into being before the Messiah will return. So essentially the US is supporting Israel to bring about the end of the world faster.

*Shakes head*

Israel has nothing to do with the second coming of Christ, but everything to do with when the Messiah was first to come. It had to take place before 70 AD, before the temple was destroyed. What's the purpose of spreading lies?

 

[zappafan]

Outsiders he may be talking about the temple mount being rebuilt (which will have to occur in Israel), when some believe the Messiah will return, who I believe is the abomination of desolation and the AntiChrist. What are your beliefs on eschatology?

 

[Outsiders71]

Outsiders he may be talking about the temple mount being rebuilt (which will have to occur in Israel), when some believe the Messiah will return,

The only relevance the Messiah has to the temple was the coming of Jesus Christ. There's plenty of scripture in the Old Testament that refer to this, and pretty defining time periods as well. There is NO scripture that gives details of the second coming of Christ besides that no one will see it coming.

who I believe is the abomination of desolation and the AntiChrist. What are your beliefs on eschatology?

I don't know what eschatology is, so can't help ya there.

 

[zappafan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology

How do you think Matthew 24 is to be interpreted? From a full - preterist view?

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple


Destruction of the Temple Foretold
R98 1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."


The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
R99 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
4And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, saying, "I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. 6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all F130 these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, F131 and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. 10And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.


The Great Tribulation
R100 15 "Therefore when you see the "abomination of desolation,' F132 spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16"then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
23"Then if anyone says to you, "Look, here is the Christ!' or "There!' do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand.
26"Therefore if they say to you, "Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or "Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.


The Coming of the Son of Man
R101 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


The Parable of the Fig Tree
R102 32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So you also, when you see all these things, know that it F133 is near--at the doors! 34Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.


No One Knows the Day or Hour
R103 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, F134 but My Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour F135 your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.


The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant
R104 45 "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48But if that evil servant says in his heart, "My master is delaying his coming,' F136 49and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Footnotes

1. F130: 24:6 NU-Text omits all.
2. F131: 24:7 NU-Text omits pestilences.
3. F132: 24:15 Daniel 11:31; 12:11
4. F133: 24:33 Or He
5. F134: 24:36 NU-Text adds nor the Son.
6. F135: 24:42 NU-Text reads day.
7. F136: 24:48 NU-Text omits his coming.


Show cross-references

1. R98: Mark 13:1, 2; Luke 21:5, 6
2. R99: Mark 13:3-13; Luke 21:17-19
3. R100: Mark 13:14-23; Luke 17:23, 24, 37; 21:20-24
4. R101: Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-28
5. R102: Mark 13:28-31; Luke 21:29-33
6. R103: Mark 13:32-37; Luke 17:26, 27, 34, 35; 21:34-36
7. R104: Luke 12:41-48

 

[Outsiders71]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology

How do you think Matthew 24 is to be interpreted? From a full - preterist view?

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple


Destruction of the Temple Foretold
R98 1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

This is the temple that was destroyed in 70AD, that the Messiah had to pass through.

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
R99 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
4And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, saying, "I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. 6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all F130 these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, F131 and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. 10And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

This really doesn't define anything, it's very vague. Like saying a symptom of cancer is a fever.

The Great Tribulation
R100 15 "Therefore when you see the "abomination of desolation,' F132 spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16"then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
23"Then if anyone says to you, "Look, here is the Christ!' or "There!' do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand.
26"Therefore if they say to you, "Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or "Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

http://www.the-highway.com/matt24_Woodrow3.html

The Coming of the Son of Man
R101 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Still doesn't give any kind of defining information.

The Parable of the Fig Tree
R102 32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So you also, when you see all these things, know that it F133 is near--at the doors! 34Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

The fig tree was never symbolic of Israel:

http://www.the-highway.com/matt24_Woodrow5.html

No One Knows the Day or Hour
R103 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, F134 but My Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour F135 your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Just a description of how clueless we are to knowing when Jesus is returning.

The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant
R104 45 "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48But if that evil servant says in his heart, "My master is delaying his coming,' F136 49and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Same as above. If scripture told us that there was going to be a new temple built and out of that came the Anti-Christ and then following that the 2nd coming of Jesus, we would know when the 2nd coming would occur then. This obviously contradicts these above 2 quoted scriptures which make it clear as day that we will have no knowledge of when it will occur, it will take us by surprise.

 

[zappafan]

Full Preterism is an empty doctrine, which offers no hope of a better life and a better future. It tears away at God's promise to the world of everlasting peace and tranquility that will be accomplished at Jesus' Second Coming. If Jesus came in 70 AD as the Full Preterists claim, He didn't do a very good job establishing world peace where nation would not lift up sword against nation (Isaiah 2:1-4, Isaiah 11:9-10, Ezekiel 37:24-26 and Micah 4:3).


The Error of Preterism http://therefinersfire.org/preterism.htm

The Temple must be rebuilt first http://www.geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/temple.htm

The above link concerning the temple is not necessairly my belief, but I am astounded that you have not heard the argument for the temple being rebuilt, the abomination of desolation (what it signifies), and the different forms of systematic theologies dealing with the end times (eschatology). I have heard some of the preterist arguments before. Have you heard the historicist argument of the great protestant martyrs? This is by no means an attack on you, I encourage you to study the history of the great men who died so we could even have the bible in English. They were/are much closer to God than many modern theologians or pastors.

http://www.historicist.com/protestant_history.htm

 

[jimscott]

The Jews didn't kick the Palestinians out. The British offered the land to both the Jews and the Palestinians. The offer wasn't accepted by the Palestinians. The British government at the time, mishandled the whole situation.

There are 3 basic theories or schools of thought about the predictive prophecy, mostly coming from Revelation, Daniel, and what Jesus spoke of.

One refers to the Scripture as something that took place in the immediate future (1st & 2nd century AD).

Another believes that this has been unfolding for the past 2 millenia, some of which has been fulfilled and some is to come.

The third theorizes that this is all in the future.

All have some things plausible about them and all have some things that don't fit nicely into the puzzle. I can't remember what was called what but I think the 2nd one is called Historicist. In my opinion, that one comes across as the most realistic.

Bottom line, though, God will triuph in the end, no matter what our understanding is.

 

[Outsiders71]

Full Preterism is an empty doctrine, which offers no hope of a better life and a better future. It tears away at God's promise to the world of everlasting peace and tranquility that will be accomplished at Jesus' Second Coming.

I don't know what full preterism is, all I know is that a Great Tribulation occurred in Israel in 70AD. From what I understand the prophecy of Daniel must have had a huge impact on Old Testament readers, which is why Jesus uses the same words. To top that off He goes on and on about how horrible it will be, which would make it seem that it goes over and beyond the great tribulation of 70AD. However I see no connection with the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple, this is the part that I don't agree with.

If Jesus came in 70 AD as the Full Preterists claim, He didn't do a very good job establishing world peace where nation would not lift up sword against nation (Isaiah 2:1-4, Isaiah 11:9-10, Ezekiel 37:24-26 and Micah 4:3).

Jesus didn't come to establish world peace, He came to give us atonement for our sins and re-establish our relationship with God.

The Temple must be rebuilt first http://www.geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/temple.htm

The above link concerning the temple is not necessairly my belief, but I am astounded that you have not heard the argument for the temple being rebuilt, the abomination of desolation (what it signifies), and the different forms of systematic theologies dealing with the end times (eschatology).

It's a misguided and stretched belief. First off it applies that WE can determine when the 2nd coming of Christ happens. Secondly it claims that we know where and when it's going to happen. Thirdly is claims that it has something to do with the rebuilding of a Jewish Temple, and not the temple of our bodies. The end of days will be a direct attack on believers' temples, not the Jewish temple.

I have heard some of the preterist arguments before. Have you heard the historicist argument of the great protestant martyrs? This is by no means an attack on you, I encourage you to study the history of the great men who died so we could even have the bible in English. They were/are much closer to God than many modern theologians or pastors.

http://www.historicist.com/protestant_history.htm

I don't read doctrines, I read scripture .

 

[Outsiders71]

Bottom line, though, God will triuph in the end, no matter what our understanding is.

Agreed. If Jesus tells us nobody will know when it will happen, I think it's safe to say it has nothing to do with the Jewish temple. The rebuilding of the Jewish temple would not be something that would go unnoticed especially by people who believe that symbolizes the end of the world.

 

[zappafan]

I think we all can agree as Jesus said of that day and hour no one knows..., however he prophetically gave signs to show what season we are in. By the way outsiders anytime you point to a website in effect you are not being scripture only (sola scriptura) but are looking at doctrine. Scripture is doctrine and the teaching of scripture can either be true or false doctrine. We are called to test all things 1 thess 5:22 and not to be so quick to write off things that do not agree with our theological belief systems. That is why I tried to show you competing thoughts on end time studies. May God continue to bless you all.