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Beware when you buy RO systems or parts...

adnedarn

I'm growing CPs in the Desert of Tucson, Az
Admin
Hello everyone, today I wish to point out a problem I have ran into regarding reverse osmosis systems and or membranes. As most of you know, I have been using AND recommending www.wattspremier.com for years for their RO systems, filters, membranes etc. Today I wish to point out that they are not willing to stand behind their product for our use.

My original RO system was mounted under sink here at my house. It is used for drinking and for my plants back when they were all here. (watering as well as the 4+ gallons a day the humidifier took) I never had any problem. I decided to up the membrane to get a faster production. It worked great, production went up, etc. (50gpd)

After I bought the new g/h... I bought a new RO system locally... of course it was only 25gpd and I needed much more than that. So at $105.95 I purchased a 75gpd membrane to replace it. About 3 months later I added a 2 stage DI system at $100.

3 months after that, I was checking the DI monitor (there is an inline monitor so you know what the PPM is of the water coming out of stage 1 and stage 2 so you know when it's time to change the DI cartridges) and the first stage was showing 92ppm (remember it should be zero when working right.. when it goes bad, it should be no worse than the membrane's output which for me is generally 8-17ppm pending temp etc) so I clicked over to the second stage, same thing... I checked the water in the storage tanks... same thing. so I pulled the system apart, all the filters were in good condition and I found the rubber sleeve on the membrane had slid off. It was all the way at the bottom of the housing and the junk water had killed both my DI filters (supposed to filter 1200gallons! surely that much has not flowed through...)

I contacted wattspremier.com and they were willing to help me... 20% off the order of a new membrane. Not that great, but since this is the only problem I've had, I went with it. I placed my order... Now membrane-less 4 business days later, I still have not gotten a ship notice. So I called them. the 75gpd is out of stock. Great. I can't go down to a 50gpd... so I order the 100gpd membrane. $160.00. Finally it comes in, and there is no flow restrictor! So I call them and I'm told they do not come with flow restrictors (the others had....) So another $15 on that. Then, over the next month, I called approx 10-15 times to get my 20% credited to my account... leave a message, leave a message, I'll let her know.. I heard it all. But finally the credit came.

Fast forward 6 months later. I've got this awesome RO system. flowing at 100GPD... ending with 0 PPm PERFECT! I check the electronic monitor one day... Sure enough. 247PPM. Pull the membrane and here is what I see:
0115081938.jpg
(the black ring down in the bottom of the housing is a rubber gasket and is supposed to be attached to the membrane.. (the yellow round long thing)

So I send that picture in with my email explaining this is the second time it's happened (in under a year). At this point, I'm asking for a prorate of the membrane, and half the cost of the replacement filters... it's the least they could do IMHO. half the filter cost is $34.49. When the email reply comes in, it states that the housing is not theirs... Because it's not theirs they can not say that the membrane will work in it. Also, they see the RO system is not used for DRINKING WATER (since it's not under a sink) therefor any implied warranties are VOID. WHAT? When I was upgrading the membrane, I talked to them about what it was used for... That is how I got the 100gpd membrane not listed on their site) Now, before you go looking on their store site, and see that it says "This Membrane will fit any Watt's Premier Standard RO unit, models 4SV and 5SV.Will not fit our WP5, WP4 or our ZR04 units." I want you to look at the internet archive for their membrane page... You will see here it says "This Membrane will fit any Standard RO unit. but will not fit our WP5 or our ZR04 units." They updated this page because I fought with them for the credit. They finally gave the prorated value, but would not compensate for anything else.

Sorry this is so long, I just wanted to point out my experience and try to protect all of you. :)
Andrew
 
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Thanks for the advice. I have had a Whirlpool RO filter from Lowe's for over two years and probably use about 3 gallons a day from it and never had any problems. Lowe's stocks the replacement filters and it works very easy. That sucks you had problems.
 
Wow man, that's terrible, you really ought not to have had to paid anything for a replacement - what about "quality guarenteed?" I hate to say something like this but maybe they assume you're growing reefer since the unit isn't installed under s sink? A lotta people don't understand plant fanatics and are always suspicious that we're doing naughty things, but MAYBE that explains their attitude?

I've been using a 3 stage 75 GPD Captive Purity brand R/O from www.marinedepot.com for at least 5 years for my terrariums and have had no problems as long as I remember to replace the R/O membrane every March. 75 GPD is the highest they go though, I think Kent Marine's R/O's go higher but so do their prices.
 
Swords, during my email exchange with them, I mentioned that I was admin of this forum and have been recommending their product for the past years... So if they even bothered to look, they would know it's not illegal plants lol. I even sent links of examples showing me recommending their products. Amazing that didn't help them want to take care of me. I've spent alot of money there :-\ Also, I would think they'd know this topic would show up if they didn't treat me right...

As a side note, I purchased a replacement membrane from aquasafesystems on ebay... 100gpd for $35.00 +7.50 S&H and $10 for an adjustable flow restrictor. I always though "how could a "good" membrane be $35?" when I saw this on ebay and a few people here suggested them. but so far... it's giving me lower TDS than the ones I was getting from wattspremier. :-\
 
I have noticed the rubber ring when replacing my ro filter and the source I get mine from puts TAPE on one side of the rubber ring to keep it in place. Works great!!
 
Definately if they know you run an online plant forum you wouldn't think they'd take the chance of getting a bad reputation. This incident would likely stop most of us here from considering their brand - how many definate non-buyers is that - a thousand? Even if you aren't using it for drinking water it reallly doesn't matter where the unit is installed on the water line, it either works or it doesn't.

Wow, $35 for a 100 GPD membrane is awesome! When I buy replacement parts all at once for my 3 stage, I'd only need to spend about $30-40 more to get a whole new R/O setup, housing and new filters. Sort of like the replacement printer cartridges, replacements is where they get ya.

I'll have to start looking on ebay for my R/O's bits and pieces! I never thought of looking there and I usually spend 1/2 my paychecks on Evilbay - thanks for the idea! :-))
 
I have noticed the rubber ring when replacing my ro filter and the source I get mine from puts TAPE on one side of the rubber ring to keep it in place. Works great!!

Ditto.. it's usually a white, waterproof (and I assume food grade) tape

I get my membranes from ebay as well, but I have started getting my prefilters from lowes, I get their whirpool brand 3 filter replacement kit... I have noticed a big diff with them, evidently they are of excellent quality (high beta rating?)


Av
 
These ARE taped on!! lol Well, supposed to anyway. In the above picture, you see the black gasket, and in the very bottom the white of the housing. In between those two is the yellow tape.

swords- yeah, parts are fairly cheap.. but there are some nice priced whole setups on ebay too. lol surely a better price to buy just the filters though.

I've seen a prefilter "kit" from Sams club.. I should look at the specs... that could end up being a good deal too :)
 
adnedarn,

I remember you saying you used a permeate pump and I noticed in your pic a booster pump, so yours would require a higer level of attachment quality then most of the rest of us (larger pressure differential then most), Im running 50psi on average with the rare 60psi.. (with permeate pump as well)

just curious... what inlet pressure are you running... Im guessing 80psig if you are trying to get all the performance you can... but if you are around 80, maybe lower to 60 or 50 if this problem continues with a diff membrane source

just an idea...
Av
 
  • #10
the premate pump is on my home system under the sink (which is my watts premier system). The booster pump in the g/h is because the g/h supply line is 1/4" (x 40ft) polly and the swamp cooler draws from that also. without the pump i have approx 20lbs pressure. with it, I'm closer to 45-50. so, that's not it :D
 
  • #11
nope... thats not it ;)
 
  • #12
I wouldn't be so angry about it if I thought there was even a possiblity of it being my fault. Everything is monitored so i pretty much know all the details of the system. here it is with the booster, (without the new DI) showing about 35 PSI in coming pressure. (so a little higher than i remembered but still in the range of needing a booster)

rosystem.JPG


and this booster is made for RO systems... 55-120gpd membranes.

It would be great if we could find a different cause... But, it's not going to happen I fear.
Andrew
 
  • #14
nepg- that's where i bought the DI and my last set of prefilters after watt's bull crap... They seem to ship pretty quick too. But make sure you buy enough to make up for shipping.. shipping one thing can be expensive.
 
  • #15
I remember saying in the chat box yesterday that there is a HUGE markup on these things. That is why you can buy a 100gpd filter on fleabay for 35 bucks. There really isn't much to the things for them to be so pricey. I will be looking for one soon so this topic is a good thing for me. Stay away from watts LOL.

BTW Andrew what is DI you keep talking about? Drip irrigation?

Ok I see it is de-ionizer, but why would you want to de-ionize it??
 
  • #16
Well, as I read it, there are only 2 manufactures of membrane material anyway.. so no matter where you go, you get one or the other... that whole story is on the ebay page of the $35 membrane, check that out.

the DI system takes the low tds that the membrane creates... (currently i'm getting 9ppm) and removes the rest of it. So, my out water is 0ppm tds. It just like "finishes" cleaning the water the rest of the way. You could run un RO'd water through a DI and get 0 water also.. but then the DI runs out FAST. so you use them after RO and they last a long time.
Andrew
 
  • #17
I'm so nervous about when I go to buy a RO. It for me would be a big investment since work been a bit slow. But regardless I need to do homework on them and hopefully get some of you guys to help me get a decent one and probably need help getting it all setup right.

The RO is going to be good though for so much more. All these years we used bottled water for my daughter bottles and stuff. Now everything can be RO and fresh :) Nice oatmeal in the morning without screwing around with a gallon jug of water.
 
  • #18
That sucks to hear about your bad experience with this manufacturer. I have been recently looking for a good, cheap, small RO system, and now I know to avoid Watts :). I should probably go look at Costco... they have the best return policies ever. You can probably return an item that is a couple years old without having to go through manufacturer warranties.
 
  • #19
Sounds about like walmart nepenthes.
 
  • #20
I use tap water, it is 25PPM or something, people on TF warned me not to use it since it would get dirty in the pipes (the water is always going through the pipes so I dunno how it would have much of a chance) but I think the water is great and my plants have been using it for over 6 months and like it a lot so... I guess it works out. RO is a waste of money to me :D
 
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