What's new
By:
Filters
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

need help getting an RO unit

  • #41
from an old post of mine,

Av





I made this up for someone and thought it would be good to post, I know its kind of cheesey but oh well :p

rodisystem.jpg


Cheers'
Av

Edit: adding additional comments as I think of them LOL

* bladder tank must be isolated from system during brine ratio measurements
* hydraulically operated automatic shut off valves will typically shut off the inlet to the membrane when the outlet pressure reaches 60% of inlet pressure
* In a real world system getting 85% of rated flow is about the maximum attainable**
* at 85% a 100gpd system should produce about 7.5oz/minute (bladder isolated)
* In bladder tank systems, membrane efficiency drops proportionally as the bladder tank fills. This is due to backpressure on the membrane outlet.***

** inlet pressure, water temperature and TDS will have a major effect on membrane output
(TFC membranes are usually rated at 77 degrees Fahrenheit @60psig and for every 1 degree drop, production drops 1.4% (57f water would reduce efficiency by 28%))

*** This drop in efficiency can be prevented by the use of a permeate pump and 90% automatic shut off valve. The permeate pump isolates the membrane from this build up in back pressure. Since the pressure differential across the membrane now remains constant, membrane efficiency also remains constant resulting in greatly improved recovery rates. This isolation also allows us to replace the 60% ASO valve with a 90% ASO thereby utilizing more of the bladder capacity and increasing output pressure. These modifications will result in a 60-80% drop in water consumption and brine output. In addition, this drop in water consumption also results in a proportional increase in prefilter life. A nice, simple and fairly inexpensive mod for any system using a bladder accumulator tank.

is all that clear as mud? :scratch:
 
  • #42
Yes.

Good answers Av. Thank you very much for taking time to answer my questions.

The above graph works very well. In fact, it gives a whole new meaning to the term, "flow chart"......... ;)



***I hope PK is paying attention too. :)
 
  • #43
Oh I'm paying attention, just kind of lost lol.

I'll probably buy the last link I posted w/ a permeate pump at some point. I think that should be sufficient for my needs.
 
  • #44
YW Fry... hope it helps

PK, dont worry... when you own one and change filters a couple times it will all make sense.
Trying to understand one by reading threads would be difficult at best.

get the basic unit and get a decent one... and we'll go from there mate,

main thing... have good water pressure, get a TDS meter and a cheap 0-100 psi pressure gauge

then with minimal guidance you will be able to diagnose and deal with any problems you might encounter

I promise ;)
Av
 
  • #45
I know where to get the TDS meter now... but where should I get a cheap pressure gauge as you described AV? Also, if you were the one buying a new RO system, which would you choose for about 200-250$? Under 200 isn't a problem either lol ;).
 
  • #46
Daniel,

If it was me, I would prob still follow the same route I did originally... I went with the aqua-safe maximus system from ebay, then I got the permeate pump and 90% ASO from ebay (fixyourwater I think)... once the original filters need replaced I use the 3 pack replacement kit that is locally available at Lowe's for hmmm 20 something dollars. They seem to be of very good quality.

The flow restrrictor is not as user friendly (idiot proof) as their old models, basically it is adjustable now... just follow their directions or put it in half travel to begin with and Ill walk you through the adjustment process... it isnt hard and is a no brainer after the first time.

The gauge... once your kit arrive, simply go to any hardware store, lowes or Home depot. Northern tool has them for about 5 dollars. I use the one from aqua-safe, but it is more expensive at around 25$ IIRC

the aqua-safe system will run you about 140 to the door, the permeate pump and 90% ASO another 60 or so (guessing)

most have been very happy with the aqua safe product by far but a few have struggled with the flow restrictor... read the directions and have your TDS meter and gauge on hand before you begin.

Daniel, PK, Fry.... It has been several years since I purchased my stuff, ask around and make sure these are still good sources. A lot can change in 4 or 5 yrs... look at their feedback, do your homework.. Pleae use my recommendations as a starting point, not an end all k ;)

maybe start a "survey" LOL

HTH's
Av

warning...there is currently one system on ebay which includes the permeate pump and shipping for 125... buyer beware, something sure dont smell right
 
  • #47
Butch, My GF's house has a water softener. It is correct in thinking that if I connect a R/O unit to the softened water it would increase the life of all the filters whil giving me pure water as the membrains and other filters will remove the salt that originaly removed the minerals? I will definately be looking into getting a system when I move.

Now here is a question. If your just filling holding tanks to use with a pump then do you need the bladder tank to give you pressurized R/O water? Or would you still get one of those to have on demand water if your drain your holding tanks?
 
  • #48
Thanks again Av,

Yeah, like PK, I'm searching online for an RO system and still learning about the technology and such.

I hope to order one in the next six weeks or so.........
 
  • #49
Josh,

Bladder tanks, permeate pumps and ASO valves are typically not used with holding tanks. You will simply use some type of float valve to stop inlet flow to the RO unit when the holding tank is full.

Now as far as the effects of a softener on membrane life... I just dont know mate. Im no chemist but as far as I know the softener is replacing the calcium and magnesium ions with sodium ions. So if this is a one to one replacement (assuming all else being equal) will the membrane live longer?... I dont know but on the surface I wouldnt think so. However, I have no experience in this application. But the advantage to the sodium ions is they dont precipitate out and cause scale build up in pipes or react with soaps to form scum.

so the inlet TDS may be equal, but just a different ion...

good question, maybe a RKI can chime in, I have no idea of how the molecular mass compares... or even if that would be a factor

now my brain hurts LOL

Av
 
  • #50
I read on a R/O website that sodium was easer to filter out than the minerals and extending the life of the membranes. I was just wondering if you had experience with that. Just making sure the site was accurate.

Also could a bladder tank, premate pump and ASO valve be used with holding tanks to make sure there is always water on demand if my holding tanks are full of fertilizer or empty? I only have 2-15 gallon containers ATM. I have to try to get a couple more then maybe I will not need the bladder tank and such. Thanks for the info Butch.
 
  • #51
josh,

I dont see why you coulnt tee the output and run it to both holding tank and bladder/permeate/ASO

of course when the holding tank is filling the flow will naturally be diverted from the bladder tank (path of least resistance), you could use ball valves to prevent this but other then that I see no caveats

oh and of course the float valve would have to be used on the outlet, downstream of the tee... which might be better anyways

would love pics and operational feedback when you get it all up and running k

HTH's
 
  • #52
Has anyone seen this contraption? http://www.zerowater.com/technology_business.php

I saw a demo in Home Depot last year and couldn't remember what it was called until just seeing a commerical on TV. They're claiming 0 ppm and " the water in terms of having little else in it but hydrogen and oxygen"

It's supposedly about $100 at HD. I'm going to look a bit further into this, but I wanted to see if anyone had any experiences on it or not?
 
  • #54
ilbasso,

It is a nice idea, IIRC what makes it zero waste is the fact they pump the brine into your homes hot water system instead of down the drain. A simpler way would be to capture the brine in a big plastic garbage can and water your non Cp plants with it. Another option would be to run the brine outlet directly to a soaker hose for your outside plants

Av
 
  • #55
How about that Zero Water gizmo? ( http://www.zerowater.com/technology_business.php )

I was looking at it at HD this afternoon and it is nice an compact, affordable, and seemingly effective.

Let's say I were to try it out-what would be the most effective way to thoroughly test the water for CP friendliness? I wouldn't just take the meter that is enclosed as the gospel truth so is the PetSmart fish desk's test enough or would I be better off taking it elsewhere?

I remember in the demo in the store last year, the woman had some water with a little bit of bleach in it, dumped it into the system and drank the results. Come to think of it, I never did see her again after that....

I can't find reviews on it yet so I may just have to try one and see. But not just yet.
 
  • #56
just go to the store and check the TDS & PH of the water it produces :D

~b
 
  • #57
ilbasso said:
I remember in the demo in the store last year, the woman had some water with a little bit of bleach in it, dumped it into the system and drank the results. Come to think of it, I never did see her again after that....
Click to expand...

ROFLMAO...
 
  • #58
Well bleach is little more than chlorine so as long as the concentration is not high enough its not going to hurt you. I made a mistake and drank from a pitcher my mother was bleaching out one day and had no ill effects.
 
  • #59
Chlorine = Cl2
Bleach = NaOCl + H2O2 (or NaBO3.nH2O or 2Na2CO3·3(H2O2))

Back to chemistry class ;)
 
  • #60
That ZeroWater Z-pitcher for $40 looks intriguing.

That'd be good for work. Our water is terrible here...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top