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Father/daughter Talk

  • #41
What this country was meant to be was a democracy.

Dictatorships are great if you are perfectly in line with everything they say. Shoot, instead of every opinion falling neatly into the convenient bins of liberal/conservative (not), think of how much more convenient it would be if everyones opinions fell into one monochromatic rainbow?

People are going to have differences in opinion, and a dictatorship that snubs other views that differ are not great for everyone else. But then again their opinions are not worth being listened to, ever, so guess it does not matter, right?

But it does matter.
 
  • #42
I think a benevolent dictatorship would be perfect.

Because so many of them end up that way, oh no wait its extremely rare if not non-existent for a dictator to be benevolent. In fact even with my history background I can not think of a single benevolent dictator. Kings yes, but they have rule through divine right and well you don't think highly of religion so those people individuals don't count. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

As for your "solutions" to the problems in the the third world you obviously don't understand their cultures at all. Period. thats all I have to say, do some cultural research then take a look at your proposed solutions and you will see why they wont work. If they put you in control of an African country I would say it would take about 2 weeks before wide spread riots, civil war, and a whole slew of other problems would arise. Plus you being American would just encourage the feelings of colonialism again and that isn't going to help your case.
 
  • #43
Just another note on the healthcare debate... nobody has said much about how much the pharmeceutical companies play into that. Personally, I find them to be pure evil, and think that reining them in would go a LONG way toward alleviating health care costs. Have a gander at the article below... makes my stomach turn. They hold peoples' lives for ransom and we all pay the price through insurance costs. My favorite quote from the article, about a 14x increase in the price of a drug that's necessary to treat epilepsy:

"Steve Cartt, a Questcor (manufacturer) executive vice president, said the new price was chosen by looking at the prices of other specialty drugs and estimating how much insurers and employers would be willing to bear."
The Middleman's Markup

Apparently insurers are "willing to bear" $23,000 a dose- it had been $1600. That's highway robbery... pure exploitation. Legal criminality.

I'll spare you my food rant for now ;) which is another HUGE health problem that could be solved fairly easily but the government refuses to do so.

I vote we bring Teddy Roosevelt back to office... our international affairs are already messed up, we just need somebody to bust up interest groups!!!!
 
  • #44
If they put you in control of an African country I would say it would take about 2 weeks before wide spread riots, civil war, and a whole slew of other problems would arise.

Doesn't that happen anyways under African rule? Coup d’état is unbelievably common. The fault of colonial mapmakers drawing arbitrary boundaries irrespective of what groups they may include together in part but that makes it no less true.
 
  • #45
I never said they actually existed, just that it would be nice (I think). A king is a dictator, and some of them have been pretty good (Karl der Große).

As for your "solutions" to the problems in the the third world you obviously don't understand their cultures at all. Period.
And you understand them perfectly? Are you from Ethiopia? No? Then fail.
I understand that they are the people that first started growing coffee, and they want to stick to tradition blah blah blah. However, tradition isn't going to work, and times change. What's more important, continuing to do the same thing for thousands of years and dying of starvation, or realizing you need to change your ways to survive and acting accordingly? Cultural identity ftw, but in this case, the way they feel is feeding their plight.

I agree that pharmaceutical companies need to be regulated hardcore. Things like Cipro that cost $12 a pill, and require 7 pills (usually) cost them about 20 cents a piece or less to make. They like to say that they need the money because of R&D...but let's get serious. If you spend 10 million on a drug total (and the researchers don't get paid much at all), you can recoup those costs quite quickly. A large hospital probably goes through 1000 Cipro a day...which is $12,000 worth of the drug...in ONE day, at ONE hospital....
Once they pay off the R&D money, its pure profit from then on out, and Cipro came out sometime before 2000.....
 
  • #46
What this country was meant to be was a democracy.


ahhhh no...........its set up as a Republic, not a Democracy......there is a very real difference....you can call it a Democratic Republic but it sure is not a Democracy.....dont they teach you kids anything in school?
 
  • #47
Just another note on the healthcare debate... nobody has said much about how much the pharmeceutical companies play into that. Personally, I find them to be pure evil,

as some one who requires high dollar prescriptions on occasion.....other than the FDA part of the system i think its fine.....if there is no money to be made in drugs we have no pharmaceutical companies and then we really have minimal ppl looking at developing new drugs.......................the almighty dollar rules.............alot of you youngins seem to have alot of ideas but damn you have no clue how the real world works.......without someone willing to pay for a product there is no reason to put blood sweat and tears into something for nothing, or atleast very rarely.....you need alot of schooling to be able to develop these drugs.....alot of schooling means alot of money out of a persons pocket.......that means they want to develop drugs to sell them and make a profit so they can pay off their student loans........

other than the BS where the companies push drugs through the FDA to fast releasing them to the general public without proper study.....that part of the system is wrong......the rest of it works just fine..........
 
  • #48
Yeah Well Rattler, I don't mind them making a profit, but it is about like the oil companies. Do they need to make windfall profits? I am all about them selling for a profit, but they don't need to ravage the american people. They take those same drugs and sell them for reasonable profits to other countries. Why does the US have to fund the brunt of the R&D. Shouldn't the world who uses the drugs pay for it? Not just us? I dunno if it takes you ,hypotheticly speaking, 20 cents to make a pill, then why does it have to be sold for 10-15 bucks a pill?

I agree we need to be able to pay for the R&D of new drugs, but I think they are going above and beyond paying the R&D and making HUGE profits for the shareholders and 100K bonuses for the CEO and things.
 
  • #49
All I want from the elections and other events is that McCain doesn't win, so many things can go wrong, such as me probably having to move to Canada if he wins...
 
  • #50
Yeah Well Rattler, I don't mind them making a profit, but it is about like the oil companies. Do they need to make windfall profits?

I agree... I'm all for profit-making... in capitalism, money powers innovation, for better or for worse. However, situations like the one mentioned in the article amount to the company being a monopoly. Taking their customers for all they can get isn't profit-making, it's theft. Worse, peoples' lives are involved here. How do you put any price on that, much less a big fat one like Questcor did? (And they're just one example.)

There's a fine line between profit and greed, and pharmaceutical companies seem to have crossed that one, at our expense. I wonder if placing a limit on their profits- 200% markup from manufacturing costs, to cover R&D?- should be put in place, especially on "orphan drugs" whose makers have no competition. What else is stopping them from ripping us off? Some people need those drugs to survive!!!
 
  • #51
All I want from the elections and other events is that McCain doesn't win, so many things can go wrong, such as me probably having to move to Canada if he wins...

heheh i agree... i don't care if they put a gorilla in office, as long as it's not registered to the Republican party ;) hopefully the Dems can do a halfway decent job.

(disclaimer: I'm actually a non-party voter, I have zero party affiliation... I lean Democratic at the moment because the GOP has very much let us down, I only hope the Dems can start to clean up this mess)
 
  • #52
I never claimed to understand the cultures of Africa. I also didnt claim that I could waltz right in and make everything better. As for Ethiopia, they have one of the highest GDP's of any African nation, though only about 10% of the land is arable. I am not saying everything is great in Ethiopia but there are definitely worse places in Africa to live.

As for the drug companies I agree their profits need to be controlled. If nothing else if they are going to say they need the huge profits for R&D then they should have to show that at least 50% of their profits go back into R&D and not into some CEO or shareholders pocket.
 
  • #53
ahhhh no...........its set up as a Republic, not a Democracy......there is a very real difference....you can call it a Democratic Republic but it sure is not a Democracy.....dont they teach you kids anything in school?

Yes, they also set the representatives to be elected, so what is your point? It is not a direct democracy, true but very few countries are.
 
  • #54
my point is when it comes down to it Finch we have 545 ppl making the major decisions for 300 million people....that is a long way from a democracy............


as far as comparing the oil companies to the pharmaceutical companies your basically right and once again i see no issue with it .......christ i listen to the same ppl complain we need to get off of oil and on to alternative energies than you complain when oil hits $3 a gallon......without oil at $3 a gallon we will not have major moves to alternative energies cause what keeps us on oil over anything else is cause its CHEAP.......if you really want hydrogen cars and the like you should be happy oil is at $3+ a gallon............cause high oil prices is the ONLY way we are going to get them.........not government legislated BS....it will be the free market that gets them to us the fastest.....and BTW i have ZERO issue with any company making huge profits......thats what all businesses try and do.....every single one will do it if given the chance.....
 
  • #55
I love how because a company makes profits that it must be capped or it's profits redistributed. That's called communism. If people actually, truly cared about the oil companies profits they would actually do something about it instead of whine that we need to take their money away.

It's quite simple really. You attack one company at a time. For a month everyone refuses to buy X gas. After a month they'll have to drop their prices. Then we buy from X and boycott Y.

Another solution is for everyone to invest in stocks in the new technology that is out there. We need to put more continuing pressure on the American automobile industry. If there was a competing, renewable energy/new technology available at the pump, gasoline would phase out.

Health insurance has many issues. First off they should not be connected to employers. The individual should be able to shop around and make the health insurance companies compete. Right now health insurance is bought in bulk by employers, and you're stuck with whatever your employer supplies. Pharmaceutical companies should not be allowed to advertise their medications. They have essential cut out the middle man (the doctor) from prescribing medication. Instead they advertise to the general public (that lack medical knowledge) then those people go to their doctors asking for X. There's also an inappropriate relationship that pharmaceuticals have with doctors. They shouldn't be supplying them with free samples to give out like candy. Pharmaceuticals should only make profits for drugs that actually work and aren't recalled a year later.

Health care in general needs to evolve here in the States. We're all about quick fixes, miracle pills and band-aids. We treat the symptoms of secondary ailments that don't resolve the primary ailment. We need to shift away from prescribing pills and instead prescribing lifestyle/dietary changes. We treat disease/illness when it's too late. We should be providing preventive health care not end game health care. Obesity and type II diabetes are perfect examples, which cost Americans billions of dollars in health care treatment a year. Those diseases can both be prevented but we don't prevent them. We let them happen. You know why? They're a cash cow.

While our health care/insurance systems are broken, Universal Health Care does nothing to address these issues. It once again gives the individual no choice on their health insurance, and prevents market competition. Not only that but Universal Health Care will probably only cover basic medical care, and you'll have to pay yet again for additional services. I'm all for helping people out who our in legitimate need, but giving an additional handout isn't going to fix anything. We're going to have people on welfare and universal health care sitting around doing nothing. Why should those who work hard pay for those who refuse to do something to add to society? I'm sure there are extreme cases where people legitimately could use this service, but the majority don't and just abuse it like any monetary hand out given to a homeless man (booze).

Also anyone who is counting out McCain because of the last 8 years of Bush...please re-evaluate before you vote. You're doing your country a disservice. If you cannot comprehend the major events that have occurred in the last 8 years, then you won't understand why we are where we are now. The Clintons had a cake walk in the 90's, the only issue facing this country was what? The O.J. Simpson trial and the Oval office extra-curricular activities? I'm not suggesting that Bush didn't mishandle things or made mistakes (he did), but you can't soley blame the Republicans or Bush for what has happened in this country in the last 8 years. Nor would it be fair to suggest that everyone in the Republican party is like Bush (which is far from the truth). Nobody generalized the whole Democratic party as a caricature of Nancy Pelosi or Ted Kennedy.
 
  • #56
Outsider All I can say to the first part of your post is, Only in a perfect world. I agree with what your saying, but it will never happen that way. You are right. Follow the money for some things, but the other side of it is patient compliance. The docs don't want to have to deal with the diseases like type2 diabetes and obesity, but people do not want to do what it takes and get off their rump. So you have half of it down but the other half is variable and it is based on everyone being just like you and I in the thinking.

The last paragraph cannot be stressed enough! Bush may not have been the best, but I still think McCain is far better than the two bickering snakes the Dems want to elect. If many of you remember I liked Barok in the beginning, but after seeing what he was about and associated with I have changed my mind.
 
  • #57
Woo! Pharmaceuticals ARE expensive. My monthly pill bill is around $230 give or take. That's taking advantage of the $4 generics on three of them, and that's with insurance. I think my deductible is 2K per year. Take a lesson from me, kids, don't do stupid things and have the insurance company put you in the "High Risk" category :p BUT, as expensive as they are, I can't not take them or my hair will fall out, I'll break out in acne, I'll hibernate (bum thyroid), claw my eyes out, smoke, and won't breath. It's ridiculous. I'm a walking pharmacy. I actually forget all I take sometimes. I take.. let's see... two albuterol, two wellbutrin, two doxycycline, two levothyroxine, two hydroxyzine, and one propecia daily. That's ELEVEN pills every day, not including the eight horse pills I take as vitamins every day. I use those damned pill organizers old people, cancer and HIV patients take. I'm totally dependant on these pills to maintain my quality of life. To be fair, I only NEED to take the levothyroxine and albuterol, the rest are just lifestyle drugs.

Putting a limit on anyone's profits is totally un-American in my opinion. If they are doing something illegal or the money is going to the wrong place illegally, then crack down on them but do not put a limit on anyone's profits. Yeah, they totally make way more than they probably should, but this is capitalism and they can charge what they want, and that is fair. No one forces you do take their pills or buy their gas. You may NEED to, but you don't HAVE to. You can buy your drugs from foreign countries if you're the trusting type, and use bio-diesel. No one is holding a gun to your head.

I ALSO think saying they should not advertise or give doctors free samples is wrong. This is America. I support maximum freedom. I see no reason why drug or even cigarette (begrudingly) companies should not be allowed to advertise their product. Americans LOVE their pills. As long as you've got a nice little slip of paper, anti-drug soccer moms will gladly shovel down Xanax with their afternoon cocktail and Ambien (Now with TWO layers for maximum unconsciousness) with their cigarettes before bed, before waking up the next day and giving Little Billy amphetamines so he'll do well in school (give anyone amphetamines and they'll study.. c'mon). The pharmaceutical companies are so powerful because we're all drug addicts in one sense and are more than willing to throw our money at them for a magic little pill that will make our life just a little bit better.
 
  • #58
We do all kinds of things to limit profits on companies, and rightfully so. For example, we at least try to prevent them from colluding, which they do anyway to some extent. For services that are vital to a functioning society, it only makes sense to regulate the extent to which they can screw the public. California had the misguided idea to de-regulate the energy market recently, and suffered the repercussions immediately, as energy producers created artificial shortages and shutdowns in order to coerce the state into ridiculously high rates. Because they could.

Similarly, we prevent monopolies from forming, since a company without competition can jack prices through the roof - and it's not like we can just decide to stop using stuff like gas, as it's how EVERYTHING gets shipped. So, today, we see that the oil companies are soaking us for ridiculous profits. In an era when the base product, the barrel of oil, is costing much more than ever, they are ADDING on to that with extra costs to get them more profit than any company of any kind has ever made in the history of the world. While the country is hurting economically, they are pouring salt in the wounds out of pure greed.

I'm a small business owner, have always been one, and believe in capitalism. But the closer it gets to the vital things a society absolutely needs, the more you have to regulate and even add a touch of socialism. And it's a good thing we do, or we'd be paying stupid tolls for every time we leave the driveway. Or have a fire, or a robbery. Or send our kids to school. Or go to the grocery store for basic food supplies.

Capslock
 
  • #59
... I liked Barok in the beginning, but after seeing what he was about and associated with I have changed my mind.

reminded me of yesterday's Non Sequitur:

nq080512.gif


just a thought :)
 
  • #60
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