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Father/daughter Talk
- Thread starter JB_OrchidGuy
- Start date
Fryster
--Freedom Czar--
hehe.............. I like the part about being "out of context"; now, THAT is funny!
JB_OrchidGuy
Cardiac Nurse
I agree. Those comments in any context mean the same thing in my opinion.
Moon Flower it is not the fact that it is what his pastor said. It is the fact he tried to claim he didn't know about it and didn't know what his pastor was about. I would not have a spiritual adviser who has those kind of drastic views. Who you associate with gives an impression of who you are. I used to hang out with thugs and hoodlums. I was labeled as one of them and for all practical purposes had that mindset that my friends had. I was just smart enough to not do anything to get myself in trouble and had a drive about myself to move on and gravitate away from those folks.
Max I agree with PK. Very well said. I know I am against socialism for all practical purposes, but I am also smart enough to realize that it is needed in cases like we are in. Greed is the root of all evil and when you have people not doing the right thing they need to be reined in. As I told Outsider, in a perfect world we could have unbridled the free market and let it regulate itself, but since we do not live in a perfect world and have CEOs who want to make 7 figure incomes and people just doing things out of greed or other reasons like pleasing the stockholder. When companies have reached their limit of growth without expanding the only way to increase the profits like expected in the market is to increase prices. So I do believe that the free market is a double edges sword and if your not careful you will cut yourself.
Moon Flower it is not the fact that it is what his pastor said. It is the fact he tried to claim he didn't know about it and didn't know what his pastor was about. I would not have a spiritual adviser who has those kind of drastic views. Who you associate with gives an impression of who you are. I used to hang out with thugs and hoodlums. I was labeled as one of them and for all practical purposes had that mindset that my friends had. I was just smart enough to not do anything to get myself in trouble and had a drive about myself to move on and gravitate away from those folks.
Max I agree with PK. Very well said. I know I am against socialism for all practical purposes, but I am also smart enough to realize that it is needed in cases like we are in. Greed is the root of all evil and when you have people not doing the right thing they need to be reined in. As I told Outsider, in a perfect world we could have unbridled the free market and let it regulate itself, but since we do not live in a perfect world and have CEOs who want to make 7 figure incomes and people just doing things out of greed or other reasons like pleasing the stockholder. When companies have reached their limit of growth without expanding the only way to increase the profits like expected in the market is to increase prices. So I do believe that the free market is a double edges sword and if your not careful you will cut yourself.
Is a 10% profit margin is ridiculous? The last time I checked, that's about what they make. I'm sorry but they have invested massive amounts of capital into their businesses. Nobody was complaining when they were making 10% profit when gas was only $1 a gallon or less. You are welcome to purchase stock in any of the openly traded oil companies and reap the benefits of their profits.
How much money should they be allowed to make? Since you are a small business owner, do you think it would be fair of the government or somebody else to tell you you can only make say a 5%-10% profit on the product you sell?
That's commie talk!
I'm not saying there shouldn't be any rules and regulations whatsoever, but it is simply insane to even hint at what you are suggesting.reminded me of yesterday's Non Sequitur:
just a thought
That is an incredibly simple minded view. If only we ran our country the way we try and distort reality through political cartoons. Wait we actually do in some ways.
Back the cartoon, it is not just something his pastor said 20 years ago and out of context. Belonging to a certain religion and even church shows your personal beliefs and ideals. Obama went to a church who's preacher for many years has openly taught and expressed racism, anti-US rhetoric, etc. You can tell who a person is by the people he/she surrounds himself with. Obama had that man not only as a preacher, but as a close personal friend. I don't want a person that willingly goes along with the pure tripe that was spewed at his place of worship in charge of the country making decisions that affect millions of Americans. There's really no comparison between choosing somebody for the office of president and the interview shown in that idiotic political cartoon.
JB_OrchidGuy
Cardiac Nurse
When they are making 4 billion a year in profit (Profit being that above and beyond operating cost and investment cost) I do not think that is only 10% more than they actuality invested. If folks would be good people and do the right thing this would not need to be talked about, but I do believe they are trying to make as much as they can as fast as they can. They have not built a new refinery since 76. Where is all their investments going?
I think that EPA regs and government stipulations regarding refineries plays a huge role in the fact that you just stated. You left that out. Aside from that, oil does not magically appear at the refinery. Oil has to be located (exploration), extracted (drilling), and transported (tankers). Workers need to be paid.
Ever hear of Thunder Horse?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunder_Horse
That is a $1,000,000,000 US drilling rig. How many companies spend that much money on a single asset (and they nearly lost it!)? Now consider the fact while that is the largest in the world, many similar (but smaller) platforms have to be built elsewhere.
JB_OrchidGuy
Cardiac Nurse
But they don't spend that every year and also the profits they make is ABOVE and BEYOND that they spend on infrastructure like that. It is what they make AFTER expenses are paid and workers are paid and all that stuff you say they need to pay. Profit comes after that. It is total revenue minus operating costs and infrastructure costs. So 4,000,000,000 above all that is a little high don't you think for something so vital to the economy and life in general.
Quit complaining. Fuel here is cheaper than anywhere else compared to other western countries. The only places that have it cheaper are the big oil producers like Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. You seriously need to do a little more research rather than looking at 2 large #s and making your eyes open wide and jumping to conclusions about how things "ought to be." When nobody is there to sell you oil because the companies that used to sell it are out of business, you'll have something to complain about. 10% profit is crap in reality. ExxonMobil sold $404b in fuel and only made $40.6b profit all while keeping fuel prices in the US comparatively cheap.
By that logic, no politician should ever hold office... clearly, Hillary surrounds herself with saints. And I'm none too keen on having Bush Lite in office for another 4 years either. I have spiritual leaders who are friends as well, and you know what? I don't agree with everything they say. Being a member of a certain religion does NOT mean that you take every bit of nonsense they feed you... some do, certainly, but I think the majority of people (Christians in particular) are a lot more moderate than we're given credit for.
I also think this bozo of a pastor has a death grip on Obama's coattails, and is making as much noise as possible to get himself in the spotlight. It's not like you can control your friends; sometimes (oftentimes, actually) people get a little weird when they perceive the opportunity to be famous. Or infamous, as the case may be.
All told... I really can't make an election decision based on some loudmouth who Obama may or may not actually agree with.
JB_OrchidGuy
Cardiac Nurse
Standard excuse Alien. It really is sad. Instead of actually making an argument you tell me I don't know. and I need to do some more research. I just know that profits are above and beyond operational cost. So I will complain when this is something required for everything ATM and then it makes the price of everything go up. We pay less for gas here because our taxes are less on the gas than other countries. Many other factors there. I just know that when a company makes record profits at the cost of other people so desperately in need of the stuff at the moment it's sad.
I dunno what statement I do not like more. "Quit complaining" or "Because i said so". Without complianing many thing in thsi world would not have changed. Civil rights comes to mind right off the top, but many other thigns work along the same lines.
I would gladly love to stop giving the oil Sheiks and Oil company CEOs my money and choose an alternative method of transportation. Nothing is a viable option yet. Riding a bike would take me too long to get to work and school, and so far there is no Hydrogen stations for me to buy a Honda fuel cell vehicle yet.
So the oil companies really have everyone by the cahoneys and here you are defending their actions. Are you some eleitest or something? I mean really. I am a college student who had to go part time with work so I can achieve my goals of becoming a nurse. Now I have to worry about how I am going to pay for food that is going up. I have to worry about how I am going to get to work and school, and I am going to have to worry about all kinds of goods I need to buy.
I had to buy a nut, one single nut, for my motorcycle. that nut cost me 6.24. There was a sticker on it that said 4 something and when I asked about it he said that was an older nut and the prices have went up. I paid for it before i got the nut and he sited fuel prices going up for the increase. So Give me a break. Win fall profits on something this necessary for daily living is just wrong and bad for the country.
I dunno what statement I do not like more. "Quit complaining" or "Because i said so". Without complianing many thing in thsi world would not have changed. Civil rights comes to mind right off the top, but many other thigns work along the same lines.
I would gladly love to stop giving the oil Sheiks and Oil company CEOs my money and choose an alternative method of transportation. Nothing is a viable option yet. Riding a bike would take me too long to get to work and school, and so far there is no Hydrogen stations for me to buy a Honda fuel cell vehicle yet.
So the oil companies really have everyone by the cahoneys and here you are defending their actions. Are you some eleitest or something? I mean really. I am a college student who had to go part time with work so I can achieve my goals of becoming a nurse. Now I have to worry about how I am going to pay for food that is going up. I have to worry about how I am going to get to work and school, and I am going to have to worry about all kinds of goods I need to buy.
I had to buy a nut, one single nut, for my motorcycle. that nut cost me 6.24. There was a sticker on it that said 4 something and when I asked about it he said that was an older nut and the prices have went up. I paid for it before i got the nut and he sited fuel prices going up for the increase. So Give me a break. Win fall profits on something this necessary for daily living is just wrong and bad for the country.
Clint
Stay chooned in for more!
I think you're over analyzing. If the pastor of your church is a Nazi, or a KKK member or something, and you heard these things said but chose to continue going to that church, it really says something about you. OK, extreme examples, but you get the idea. I believe if you tolerate racism, you're just as bad as a racist.
Putting up with a conservative pastor is one thing... putting up with "God DAMN America!" is really another, saying black and white children think differently, saying Euro-Americans are "deficient" , "America's chickens are coming home to roost", etc. I mean, I'm not offended. I've heard crazier people-and he is crazy- say crazier things, but I can see why some would be.
I never understood the concept of a "Black Church". Seems like a racist double standard to me..... I'd hate to see someone call their church a "White Church". Eek, grab some popcorn and watch [that fiasco.
Putting up with a conservative pastor is one thing... putting up with "God DAMN America!" is really another, saying black and white children think differently, saying Euro-Americans are "deficient" , "America's chickens are coming home to roost", etc. I mean, I'm not offended. I've heard crazier people-and he is crazy- say crazier things, but I can see why some would be.
I never understood the concept of a "Black Church". Seems like a racist double standard to me..... I'd hate to see someone call their church a "White Church". Eek, grab some popcorn and watch [that fiasco.
Lets do the math here. Gas is $3.30 a gallon right now or so here in Phoenix at the moment. Take away the 10% "windfall" profits that the oil company is gouging you with and what do you have? $2.97. Lets pretend your motorcycle holds 14 gallons of gas like your average car (mine for example) and you fill it up from near empty. That's $4.62 out of $46. Do you think paying $41 instead of $46 and keeping the oil company profitable is going to make or break your budget? If that is making or breaking somebody every time they fill up, they need to budget better because they have serious financial issues. Seeing as though you have a motorcycle that is most likely twice as fuel efficient as your average car, I doubt you have a financial crisis due to the profits of the oil company.
JB_OrchidGuy
Cardiac Nurse
The thing is I do not believe they are only making a 10% profit as you claim they are making. That 5 bucks a fill up is not going to break me, but the additions to the food and other goods I need to buy might. You may have enough money to eat healthy and fill up your car, but not everyone is so lucky. I am paying my bills and cutting where I need to. But not everyone is able to do that because of skyrocketing energy prices due to the greed of these companies.
May i ask. Are you one of those folks driving a hummer at 6 miles per gallon with enough money to not have this affect them like it does the lowly student like myself. The thing is when oil and gas go up then it makes everything go up. I am not just complaining about just companies like Exxon and other oil companies. My frustration is also focused on OPEC and those that use fuel inefficiently. Not everyone NEEDS to drive a 8 MPG truck or a Hummer or other things. I agree to having a nice car, so don't get me wrong, but why drive an Expedition when your the only one riding in it? If the need is there by all means, but I see too many single persons driving a HUGE SUV.
The oil companies are not the only thing to blame. I blame OPEC, Frivolous use of fuel and the lack of companies to develop the alternative fuels that have been around for a while, because the motor companies bought them up to sit on them. There are many factors to this problem and I still do not condone the types of profits the oil companies are making because I seriously think it is more than 10% as being claimed.
May i ask. Are you one of those folks driving a hummer at 6 miles per gallon with enough money to not have this affect them like it does the lowly student like myself. The thing is when oil and gas go up then it makes everything go up. I am not just complaining about just companies like Exxon and other oil companies. My frustration is also focused on OPEC and those that use fuel inefficiently. Not everyone NEEDS to drive a 8 MPG truck or a Hummer or other things. I agree to having a nice car, so don't get me wrong, but why drive an Expedition when your the only one riding in it? If the need is there by all means, but I see too many single persons driving a HUGE SUV.
The oil companies are not the only thing to blame. I blame OPEC, Frivolous use of fuel and the lack of companies to develop the alternative fuels that have been around for a while, because the motor companies bought them up to sit on them. There are many factors to this problem and I still do not condone the types of profits the oil companies are making because I seriously think it is more than 10% as being claimed.
So alien, here's the problem - making gas now is the same as it was when gas was $1/gallon. So at that point, the gas companies made $.10 a gallon. So the raw product, the price of crude, has gone up in price four-fold. So now the gas folk make $.40/gallon, doing exactly the same service as when they made $.10/gallon. (And remember, this is PROFIT, after exorbitant salaries and bonuses.) Further, this is just at retail. The oil companies make bank refining oil as well. So the point is that a very few companies control a supply of vital energy to America - a national security issue if there ever was one. They have a responsibility to society to take their role seriously, and not gouge just "because they can."
Nobody is saying they can't make money. And all I'm suggesting is a windfall profits tax - nothing that will cripple them, and a tax that only applies to crazy, over-the-top profits. Believe me, they can take it. As it is, they're just laughing their way to the bank.
Max
Nobody is saying they can't make money. And all I'm suggesting is a windfall profits tax - nothing that will cripple them, and a tax that only applies to crazy, over-the-top profits. Believe me, they can take it. As it is, they're just laughing their way to the bank.
Max
I make under $30k a year. I drive a 2000 Ford Mustang that gets 17ish MPG in the city and 90% of my driving is in city driving. It sucks paying $45 to fill up every couple of weeks or so, but I don't get mad at the oil companies for their profits. If business wasn't profitable, they wouldn't be in business, and I wouldn't have any fuel then. You need to realize that the only reason that fuel prices are so high is because oil is so high. Oil prices are high because that's the way the market/trading is right now thanks to
A) Demand in China (that wasn't there before)
B) Demand in India (that wasn't there before)
C) Collusion of OPEC
D) Government regulations
A sure fire way to screw something up in a hurry is to come down on it hard by taxing the hell out of it or instituting ridiculous regulations like a cap on profits. I'm sorry but 10% profit even if it is greatly inflated through volume business is not unethical in my book and is MORE than reasonable. I suggest people direct their ire toward more deserving things.
JB_OrchidGuy
Cardiac Nurse
I am glad you only fill up once every couple of weeks, but I fill up every week roughly. My car gets about 20 MPG. 98 sable. I have to drive about 20-25 min to school and work each day. That is why I like to ride my bike when I can because it gets 50-51 mpg. I am contemplating a Prius to decrease my dependence on oil, but I would love a hydrogen powered car once hydrogen stations become available or I can produce my own for the car.
As I said it is a multi faceted problem, but the oil companies are part of the problem. Again I do not expect them not to make a profit, but I believe what they are making is exorbitant. If 4,000,000,000 is only a 10% above the operating cost then so be it. I just do not believe that is the case.
As I said it is a multi faceted problem, but the oil companies are part of the problem. Again I do not expect them not to make a profit, but I believe what they are making is exorbitant. If 4,000,000,000 is only a 10% above the operating cost then so be it. I just do not believe that is the case.
I think the biggest profits in the history of corporations is probably a time to take notice, thank you.
Nobody is suggesting they can't make money, nor capping profits. That's not the intent or effect of a windfall profits tax.
By the way, the reason that they don't spend much of this huge profit on research or alternative energy is that doing so will interrupt their gravy train. As soon as something takes the pressure off the demand for oil, the price will plummet. And they have no intention of having that happen. In fact, they will move to block any such research through lobbying, buying of patents, etc. For better or worse, we elected oil men to run the government. That suddenly oil people are making unprecedented profits should come as no surprise. The struggle for control of oil in the middle east is NOT to ensure a low-cost supply - it's to make sure that prices and profits can be maximized. That's how business works, and why it needs to be regulated.
Capslock
Nobody is suggesting they can't make money, nor capping profits. That's not the intent or effect of a windfall profits tax.
By the way, the reason that they don't spend much of this huge profit on research or alternative energy is that doing so will interrupt their gravy train. As soon as something takes the pressure off the demand for oil, the price will plummet. And they have no intention of having that happen. In fact, they will move to block any such research through lobbying, buying of patents, etc. For better or worse, we elected oil men to run the government. That suddenly oil people are making unprecedented profits should come as no surprise. The struggle for control of oil in the middle east is NOT to ensure a low-cost supply - it's to make sure that prices and profits can be maximized. That's how business works, and why it needs to be regulated.
Capslock
Everyone is also forgetting that they keep prices artificially high. Oil companies side with the right, and blame the left for not being able to drill in Alaska, which has one of the largest reserves on the planet. In reality, its the oil companies' lobbyists who are pushing to not drill, not the "crazy environmentalists". Oil companies keep prices artificially high and supply artificially low to make more money. That way, when all the Middle Eastern oil dries up, they'll open up Alaska with an, "oh! look what we found here!" attitude, and the prices will continue to climb, because then they'll say there is no where else to drill.
There are also a ridiculous amount of oil reserves in many S. American countries that are yet untapped. N. and W. Africa also have some of the world's largest reserves, and nothing has been done about it. The oil companies also refuse to build new refineries. PERIOD. You cannot argue with the fact that they are purposely doing as little as they can to make as much as they can, because it's fact. If you don't agree, fine, but that doesn't make you right.
So...having price controls on oil isn't ok to keep it low, but a coalition of Saudi sheiks using price controls to keep price artificially astronomically high IS ok? You've got to be $*)@*$ kidding me. They can raise prices on a whim, because one of them wants to build his 7th billion dollar gold plated palace, at the expense of some people having to start skipping meals because they don't make enough money to pay for rising gas and food (among other things).....and that's alright? You've got to be living on another planet.
There are also a ridiculous amount of oil reserves in many S. American countries that are yet untapped. N. and W. Africa also have some of the world's largest reserves, and nothing has been done about it. The oil companies also refuse to build new refineries. PERIOD. You cannot argue with the fact that they are purposely doing as little as they can to make as much as they can, because it's fact. If you don't agree, fine, but that doesn't make you right.
So...having price controls on oil isn't ok to keep it low, but a coalition of Saudi sheiks using price controls to keep price artificially astronomically high IS ok? You've got to be $*)@*$ kidding me. They can raise prices on a whim, because one of them wants to build his 7th billion dollar gold plated palace, at the expense of some people having to start skipping meals because they don't make enough money to pay for rising gas and food (among other things).....and that's alright? You've got to be living on another planet.
JB_OrchidGuy
Cardiac Nurse
Thank you PK that is another factor. OPEC keeps the production low to keep prices high. Well maybe it is not low, but they do not increase output or they are at max production already. Either case the market is creating some of the "shortage" for profit seeking. Before the supply "dries up". So again there are many different factors, but I still hold oil companies partialy to blame.
It must be one huge giant... CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand this mentality about punishing the oil companies for being successful at their business. They made considerable financial investment/risks to get to where they are today. The only reason they have this nonsense "windfall" profit that keeps being mentioned is because of the current trading price of oil. They get their fair cut (10%) on fuel. What is wrong with them making the largest sum of money in profit compared to other companies right now? Should we always punish those companies that achieve a higher level of success? Maybe they should operate like the airline companies, GM, Ford, etc.
The United States as a nation continues to operate as it did when gas was less than $1.00 a gallon. And again, nothing is stopping anybody from purchasing stock in these companies and reaping the rewards of their profits.
"We" cannot control OPEC.
