What's new
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Sigh, bumpy road ahead

nightsky

Lover of Mountains
It's a tough time to be in the airline industry, but the good times are normally very short lived anyway. The economy was already having a huge negative impact upon all of them, then the spike in oil just drove more nails into the coffins, with no end in sight. I'm a first officer (copilot is the hollywood term) on a 50 seat 'RJ', and just found out today I'm going to be laid off, AGAIN for the second time in 7 years in this darn industry. Timeline was just 'summer or fall'. It took me 3 years to get back into the industry after the last layoff as jobs were so scarce. Since this is a seniority based industry, that means I lose all those years spent working my way up from the bottom. It's not like other jobs where you can make lateral moves based on experience, here you start of the bottom no matter what, bottom pay, bottom schedules, etc. I nearly went bankrupt last time, and my wife and I are still pulling ourselves out of the debt incurred from that whole mess. Ugh!

This time though, I saw the writing on the wall, and my wife and I decided it was best to move back to our hometown of SLC asap, from where I'd just commute to work into Houston every week (ie I won't be home hardly ever). It's home though, that's where friends and family is, and we might need the support structure and job connections. Last time this happened it of course caught us by surprise, and we were in Portland where we didn't know a soul, and it nearly destroyed us. So at least this time I had a feeling and was able to plan a move just in the nick of time.

People have many misconceptions about it being a high paid and glamorous job. If you work for Fedex or UPS, it might be, but those are 1 in 1000 pilots that get those positions, and you have to know someone on the inside to 'sponsor' you. And here at the 'regional' level, we get paid peanuts. Seriously. But you have to put your years in here just to have a sliver of hope of moving up in the industry, hoping all the while to not get caught by a furlough. If so, you lose what you've built up.

I'm very seriously considering leaving this god-forsaken industry all-together. After working in it for 13 years, I'm going to have to start over at the bottom again after this. Back to wages I made 13 years ago, for the second time. This job really does destroy families and finances. Well, since my degree is in av, I may have to go back to school, in my 30's for crying out loud, with no idea what else I would do, as this is all I know. At this rate I'll never own a house of my own. My poor wife is in shambles. She's sick of being poor, of moving cross country, of lack of stability, never seeing me. Ugh. I have no clue where to go from here. Sorry for the rant guys, but thanks for listening. :-(
 
Military pilot??? What about flying helicopters for the news or police, or a hospital?

That sucks though. I'm not particularly a fan of the aviation part of the travel industry whatsoever. Like oil, it is not at all market based. No one buys tickets because they are ludicrously expensive, so then the airline gets mad no one is buying tickets, and raises the prices further, which causes even less people to buy tickets. Aviation has been around for over a hundred years, and despite an incredible amount of technological advances in the field which have made things hundreds of times more efficient, prices continue to go up. It shouldn't cost $1500 to get to S. America FROM HOUSTON. Or $500 to go to Belize, which is what...a 2 hour flight? Hell I'd be in Thailand tonight if it wasn't like $1600+ (and that's if you buy the ticket almost a year in advance).

I was going to go to Germany this summer, and the second I convinced myself to buy the ticket, I logged in, and it had arbitrarily increased in price by over $300 over the course of about 3 hours. I called and they said the flight with the good price had sold out, I told them no, because it was the SAME FLIGHT NUMBERS. They said the sale must've ended, and I said no, because the website said the sale was on for another 2 days. The response I got was, "Well, I have no idea then. But that fare is gone". :censor:
 
I'm sorry your going through such a tough time. I know what your talking about with the economy and having to work your way up from the bottom.
My Dad is a pilot for JetBlue and ever since I was very young I've watched him climb all the way from flying corporate jets, to what he's doing now. Granted, he is getting better pay, but still not a huge differance considering it took 14 years. Now he's relying on the company not to go out of business.
He only recently bought a house of his own.

I know it's a risky business, but don't give up, try again. You never know, you might do a lot better in a different company.
I hope things clear up and get better for you.
Good luck!
-Matt
 
Thanks guys. No military background. Fractional is where it's at. They are the most secure sector, and will be for a long time to come. Problem is it's nearly impossible to get hired by them in hard economic times - they hire about 10% of interviewees, and those who even get interviewed are jumping ship from the likes of Delta, Continental, etc, ie guys who already made it to the big time. Last I heard, one operator in particular had over 7500 resumes for 300 positions...

Current thought is that cheap airline travel is going to gradually fade away, and that it's going to trend back to the way it was in the '30's and '40s: only the elite and rich flew on what small amount of planes that existed. Ticket prices are only going to rise higher and higher to cover fuel. Oil is killing this industry right now. And it's only going to get worse; and if it hits $200/barrel, many of the legacy carriers, let alone all the lesser airlines, will be gone forever. This is what many airline union reps, management, and industry analysts are saying. Here's the kicker, the rich already skip the airline hoe-down all together, and go fractional. Many are predicting that rail and bus use will rise, and that even high-speed rail lines will replace much of the domestic flying done today. Most airline flying will be in the international arena. Who knows, all I know I'm sick of starting over. I could kick myself for picking such a dead end career. I don't want to be 50 and barely be getting into my first house. <anger>
 
What do you mean by fractional? (Sorry if that's a dumb question lol)

Idk man, you're only in your 30s. I'd go the military route if I were you. The pay isn't fantastic, but you get so much stuff paid for, discounted, etc. Plus, you can live somewhere else. And you can live in almost any country you want. I'm telling all my military friends to put in international requests now. That way, if the worst happens and Billary wins, they'll already be out of the country ;).
 
That way, if the worst happens and Billary wins, they'll already be out of the country .
lol

Yeah, military does have nice advantages, my Dad was in the Air Force for a few years. It's by no means necessary, though.
 
That's too bad and I'm sorry you have to go through that. I went back to school in my upper 30s and started again a year ago, at 46. I've had a good job throughout that time, but wanted a chance to do something a little different. I was 31 and working in a Fotomat because things didn't turn out as I had hoped, but was there little more than a year before I landed the job that's been paying for my house & family ever since.

Few people are lucky enough to have everything happen the way they want. They usually think they're better, but what they mostly are is lucky. You won't be the first person to go back to school because a career path got rocky and you have an advantage over a lot of people because you've been through college before. You'll be amazed at how much easier it is when you have a few years on everyone else.

With the math and science you've had to master, you should be a natural for some of the higher-paying, more challenging fields that scare off a lot of 18-year olds. Or maybe even teaching, especially if Texas has one of those rapid certification programs designed for people switching careers.

I admit I'm no fan of the aviation industry, which is amazingly wasteful and polluting, but I hope things work out for you and that you find success in something, whether in that industry or elsewhere.
 
I'm really sorry to hear that. I can feel for you. I got laid off from a job many years ago, due to a corporate merger, in the height of a bad recession. It wiped out every penny I had trying to survive 'til I could get a job. I had to "start over" too. I've never recovered financially. Now I'm facing the possibility of it happening again. Times are really tough.

I wish you all the best. I wish there were something I could do to help.

BTW....love the avatar. :)
 
It must be an ominous time in the real estate business, PAK. I have a brother-in-law who's a carpenter and there are no big jobs lined up after the current one, which is a big change from recent years. I wish all of you the best. Alan Greenspan didn't take his foot off the accelerator when he ran the Federal Reserve and a lot of people will suffer for the sins of the past.
 
  • #10
man, I know how you feel..
Ive been at EK for 15 years...never felt stable.
basically ive been continuously waiting to get laid off for 15 years..its all I know.
its the culture of my entire adult working life...will this be the year I get laid off?
nope..not yet..but its coming..any day now..

the company has gone from 60,000 Rochester employees to 12,000 in 20 years..
3 out of 4 employees are gone..my wife is one of them..
she was laid off 4 times in 10 years.. kept finding a new job with the company each time, only to get the ax again..the last time it happened she said "screw it" and didnt bother to look for another job there..

if I get laid off, we will probably leave NY state for good..
we are both NY natives, lived here our entire lives, myself from south-central NY and her from Buffalo,
but the job situation, on top of insane property taxes..well..we dont
heart.gif
so much
anymore..

im 39 and my job is all I know..(im a digital imaging R&D tech..I was a photography major in college) If I do need to make a career change, im considering looking into CAD..
I could get into that..

Matt,
you say you are "only in your 30's"..thats YOUNG! :)
a freind of mine, mid-30's, just went back to school for a complete career change..
she went from human resources to being a X-ray technician..she loves her new choice..

the big problem is of course finding the time and money for more schooling once you have a family and a house and a "real life"...but its always possible!

note to you teenagers...go to college right out of highschool!!
its the best time to go, and its great..you wont regret it.

Scot
 
  • #11
on top of insane property taxes..well..we dont
heart.gif
so much
anymore..
Haha, I know what you're talking about. Taxes, on top of other problems, are the reason my family and I moved down south from NY and NJ.
I can't say it was easy leaving the place I lived my whole life, it was actually down right hard, but we're finally starting to settle in.
 
  • #12
If you do CAD it is not hard I've gotten to the level where I could do some architectural work and I'm 15. I know what you mean by horrific economy,my dad's friends in California who own flooring businesses most of them are bankrupt or their businesses are dead.
 
  • #13
Thanks for the support all. Who's knows what will happen; the unknown in very frightening. Whatever the outcome, hopefully I make better choices this time around. I look back on 13 years of regrets and setbacks due to my career choice, with nothing to show for it to boot. What was once my passion and dream became my misery, which I unfortunately dragged my wife into. This furlough will be devastating, as I will have to start at the bottom of pay again, making less than I made working part time while in college for crying out loud (the pay really is that bad at the bottom) - if I decide to give it another go. But I'm pretty certain I'll say goodbye to the cockpit. Time to cut my losses and move on. If I only knew what direction to go in..

I realize that many folks out there are are facing uncertain futures, and I'm not meaning to have a pity party. I hope things work out well for those of you in similar situations. It's good to hear that some are able to change careers and make it out alright. Hey - at least we have CP's to divert our attention from the stresses of life. Thank God for hobbies. Plus, in my case, I'll be moving back to where my heart is, the Rockies, where I can get back to my favorite past time - hiking and backpacking. There, all my worries melt away. Oh, how I've missed this:

Timp1.jpg
 
  • #14
WOW. :0o:

It must be an ominous time in the real estate business, PAK.

It is. I'm just hoping my office can tough it out until things start to improve. But I never know when my pink slip is coming. I'm a "luxury"...but I'm also the recruiting bait to get new agents. Times are tough and getting tougher every day.

Quite frankly...I could be tempted to run away into that picture. :)
 
  • #15
I'm sorry to hear about all of you who are having problems right now. I'm definitely in the same boat. Well, not the same boat, but a similar one.

I graduated with my BA in psychology this past December and moved to San Diego to live with my girlfriend on February 1st. It's now May 12th and I've yet to find full-time employment. I'm seriously considering going back to school in the fall to pursue my Master's, just because the job market is so incredibly sucky right now, not to mention the fact that I've completely changed career directions and am considering a job in writing as opposed to a job in psychology.

Good luck to everyone. Times are definitely tough.
 
  • #16
LG,

I found 2 different articles yesterday that said that our generation has way more training and knowledge than our parent's generation, but crappier pay and lower standards of living.

And they always say we don't know what we're talking about :jester:
It does make me mad though that we're smarter and get much less. I've been shopping for a new country to move to for a few years, but you just can't make money as a doctor like you can in the US. If things get really bad though, I'll just move to Norway or something where the standard of living is astronomically higher than it is here.
 
  • #17
Interesting points you made there.

I was, without a doubt, one of the typical college graduates who got out of school and just expected the job market to open up and say, "Welcome! Here's a position, and that's just because you're educated!"

My eyes have opened tremendously over the past three and a half months. Now that I've gotten a bitter taste of reality, I'm desperately trying to cope with things on a day-to-day basis. At least I've decided on somewhat of a direction. I've discovered that I want to be a writer, although maybe "realized" is a better word, since I've always enjoyed writing and have been doing it for years and years. That was half the battle. Now comes the fun part of figuring out how to make this dream come true.

I'm thinking graduate school is part of the equation, and it's looking better and better the longer I spend looking for a job.
 
  • #18
University psychology departments have way too many students and, unfortunately, there aren't enough jobs or slots in grad school for all the good ones who want to work in that field. My daughter looked at the website for Arizona State's psychology department and it brags about their 1700 undergraduates. That's just one university in one state and they're churning out ~400 psychology graduates a year.
 
  • #19
University psychology departments have way too many students and, unfortunately, there aren't enough jobs or slots in grad school for all the good ones who want to work in that field. My daughter looked at the website for Arizona State's psychology department and it brags about their 1700 undergraduates. That's just one university in one state and they're churning out ~400 psychology graduates a year.

Yeah, we had around a billion psychology students in our department. So maybe I should consider myself fortunate to not be pursuing a career in psychology!

Some days I get down on myself for choosing a major that I'm not passionate about anymore, but I guess things change. I've grown up a lot since I declared my major, and if I could go back, I would have majored in creative writing or journalism, since that's where I'm headed now.

The good thing is that psychology can be applied to a lot of different fields, since dealing with people is a requirement in most jobs.

Well, that's what I tell myself at least :-))
 
  • #20
NS,
Bummer on your recent bad news. This type of message is getting more & more common as the manufacturing base in the US is sent to lower cost countries (China, India, Vietnam, etc).
Oil is killing this industry right now.
The cost of oil is definitely a big issue for the airlines but they were in deep trouble before oil went nuts. The airline industry cannot make money. With the exception of Southwest (& maybe JetBlue), the industry loses money hand over fist. For years, every time one carrier announced a price increase, another came in to match the old fare or lower fares to grab customers - even though it means operating at a bigger loss. This industry is just crazy ....
And it's only going to get worse; and if it hits $200/barrel, many of the legacy carriers, let alone all the lesser airlines, will be gone forever. This is what many airline union reps, management, and industry analysts are saying.
It will absolutely get worse before it gets better - the industry is in need of a major shakeup/shakeout. However, be leery of predictions by experts - they are notorious for being wrong....

Good luck with your situation...
 
Back
Top