California supreme court overturns gay marriage ban

[Clint]

Then move to somewhere more progressive.. or crowded. The point IS that if you REALLY wanted to, you could go to one. Drive. You're splitting hairs over a hypothetical situation.

The problem is that civil unions and marriage are not synonymous. Straight people can have a civil union OR a marriage. Gay people can only have a civil union. That's not equality. Your argument would *sort* of be alright IF we made it illegal for straight people to have civil unions. That's not going to happen, and even if it was thinkable, I wouldn't want to limit the freedom of another person.

 

[ktulu]

Ok saying that a man walk into a womens bathroom is the same as making the legal definition to cover marriage to ignore the gender of the partners is asinine. If a man walks into a womens bathroom or the other way around they are forcing their way into a situation that may make some of those involved uncomfortable. Now allowing two consenting adults to marry each other regardless of the gender of the partners forces no one into a situation they are uncomfortable with, with the exception of people who feel its their job to dictate the actions of others because they think they know what is best.

The whole point of this is to make the legal definition equal so that partners of any genders have exactly the same rights and social standing. If the church and the religous people still want a special word for their partnership go back to the ancient Hebrew word for marriage, just please don't claim right to a common use word. If we can at this point I am claiming ownership of the word THE, no one else can use it from now on. Please go back and edit all your previous posts. Thanks.

 

[nepenthes_ak]

lol ktulu.

The first part I think jlap was talking about the choice to go into a coed bathroom. The bathroom would be marriage, the sexed bathrooms could be civil union.

OK, I have a question, In the christian religion, god DOES every thing for a reason.

you said god DOESN'T make people gay.

But doesn't he do things for a reason? Following your doctrine, god would then make gay people for you to try and convert them or w/e you feel you have to do to force your doctrine down other peoples throats.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

I'm just relaying stories I've personally heard. It's not a rarity and you can find them online as well.

And I am telling you they are doing it because they are tired of the riticule. Or never were really gay to begin with.

Where did I say I wanted to deny someone the right to be recognized as a family or deny them the right of the same protections under the law? Nowhere.

By the vary nature ofyour post thats where.

I think your logic is fallacy. There is no equivalence between the segregation of public schools and whether or not a gay couple is called a marriage or union. I also disagree with you that the definition of the institution of marriage should be changed.

Please do explain how gay couples given the term civil union, with the same EXACT word for word legal rights as the legal definition of marriage would be disadvantaged.

With your logic mens and womens bathrooms shouldn't be segregated. We should have only one bathroom for both sexes. Separate is not equal.

Sure there is your segragating them by a physical feature. How is that different from sexual orientation? Ohhh You also wouldn't try to deny a guy that had a sex change from a guy to a woman from marrying a guy. He may have been changed physicaly, but geneticly he is still a man. Yet there is no stink to keep them from marrying a guy.

Once again you don't know me, so quit pretending. Just because I believe it is wrong for the definition of marriage to be changed does not mean I hate gays. There is no need to change the definition. Heterosexual relationships are different than homosexual relationships, and that is just plain fact. Just like women are different than men. We don't call women men, or men women, or both ONE name. They are both uniquely different and equal. So why is it so gosh darn important to REDEFINE the term marriage if honestly the two institutions here are different? It's not about rights, it's about social acceptability.

I am not pretending and never once said I know you. I know your rhetoric and there is a word for it. Love is love man. The only aspect of a gay relationship your thinking about is the sex portion because that is the only part that is remotely different. I never thought the term marriage was being redefined. I have always seen it as someones interpretaion that it be between a man and a woman. This arguement is about rights. Right for equal protection. Social acceptance is already here with the select few still holding out protesting. Just like the few KKK member still hating on the Americans of color.

So I assume that you've never heard of drinking in moderation? Or the health benefits that occur from doing so? People can abuse lots of things, that doesn't mean the only option is to abuse it. I would be careful how you are interpreting scripture because God is very clear about any kind of drunkenness (not only from alcohol) and it seems like you've either misread or added in extra tid bits to appease yourself. Maybe you should talk to your church's pastor about verses in question.

Were you also aware that that was one study and there were other studies that say otherwise? It was never drinking in general either. It was refuring to one glass of red wine for the properties in the grape skin. Were you also aware that there is another study out there that says THC is a great anti-neurotoxin or it was being studied as one. I can find a study on anyting to prove my point. That same study has to be done several times with the same results to be really a valid study. And trust me this is coming from a guy who has used the whole one drink is good for you comment because of that study, but it was more of a joke to get what I wanted. Your right people can abuse alot of things and also do alot of things in moderation. I myself used to smoke in moderation too yet you still seem to think it is all or nothing there with pot, but ok with alcohol.

I will admit to never reading a bible, but I have been meaning to so I can provide better arguments to you the things your saying. Just like the claims of others that their words were being taken out of context so can a single verse in the bible.

 

[Clint]

No... that wasn't meant as an analogy. I was really talking about bathrooms

I don't believe God does everything for a reason. I think he does very little. He allows things to happen; he doesn't make them happen. Let's say you get cancer through no fault of your own (smoking, etc). God doesn't give you cancer, he allows you to develop it. I don't believe everything happens for a reason. Life can just suck sometimes and everything doesn't have a purpose. You can spin anything into something positive, though. There was a cartoon I remember where God said "You know you're doing things right when people can't tell you're doing anything at all" or something like that. I think it was Futurama.

I don't believe all of them do it because they're tired of ridicule. Most, if not all of the people who go to those camps to be brainwashed REALLY feel like their sinful. There are even support groups on line for people who survived that experience and realized how wrong it is (the camps).

I have read the Bible cover to cover, only skipping the parts that are like page after page of "so and so begot so and so who begot so and so who begot so and so". I never study it, and I take very, very little of it literally. Really just the parts about Jesus. As far as I'm concerned, the old testament is completely ignorable and most of the new testament. It may have been inspired by God, but a LOT of TERRIBLE things have been "inspired by God" so that doesn't mean very much to me. It wasn't written by God, it was written by man. Racist, murderous, homophobic, sexist man. Things have changed a lot over the last few thousand years.

And besides, all of the books of the Bible aren't even in the Bible.

 

[phissionkorps]

"Was Jesus gay?", by Pat Condell. That man is a genius....watch his other vids if you have the time.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ReYfDlIa-Z8&feature=related

 

[PlantAKiss]

we were put there at that exact time to meat each other.

lol

Do you disagree with having two different terms for sexual orientation? If you don't disagree with the two terms, homosexual and heterosexual, and accept that they are different orientations (not in negative terms), then it would only make logical sense to have two terms for the two different unions.

Make sense to whom?

 

[Clint]

The thought of Jesus having sex with anyone gives me the creeps. It's like thinking about your parents... oh.. oh here it comes... get out of the way...

 

[Captain Hamata]

ok..im not done yet..one more point.

in order for the Christian anti-gay position to make any sense and to be remotely valid, homosexuality has to be a CHOICE..you have to CHOOSE to be gay, and CHOOSE to therefore commit the sin of homosexuality..

because anti-gay christians certainty can never admit that gays are BORN gay..
that wont work..because if they were born Gay that would mean God MADE them gay..
and if God made them gay, then how can it possibly be a sin right?

so these Christians, amazingly, have to believe that gays CHOOSE to be gay..
that position is so amazingly laughable its pathetic..
and there is a very easy way to prove its wrong..
simply ASK any gay person who has ever lived!
ask them if they have a choice!

and if was a simple choice, like choosing to smoke or do drugs or commit adultry,
why have so many gay teenagers commited suicide?
why was it such a big deal that they had to kill themselves because their so-called "Christian" society told them they were evil?
why couldnt they just say "well..this gay expirement of mine isnt working out so well for me..I guess I should just "switch back" and be straight now.."

why cant they "switch back" to being straight?
because they were NEVER straight to begin with..

God creates babies with ambiguous sexual organs, neither totally male or female..I doubt anyone can sucessfully argue that the babies CHOSE to be that way while developing in the womb..
so God Himself creates ambiguous physical sexual traits all the time..
but yet we are to believe that its impossible to have male sexual organs yet not have male hetrosexual brain chemistry?? God cant do that? wow..I didnt know you had the authority to tell God what He can and cant do..arent you special.

and..if some people can choose to be gay..why cant ALL people choose to be gay?
I honestly cant CHOOSE to be gay..its impossible..
why?? because im NOT...its simply not an option for me.
in the same way, gays cant choose to be gay..or choose to not be gay,
they have no choice..they were CREATED gay..
if you believe in God, you have no choice but to believe that God created them gay..
therefore, homosexuality can not be a sin..its impossible.

ok..now im done!

Scot

These were some funny comedians with bits that support what scott was saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7xZ-PJ9sTM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grxnU-iGD8g&feature=related

 

[Clint]

I was talking to someone else and thought I'd post this. This is from Hedwig and the Angry Inch and really is what I think of when I think of this topic. It's LOVE. It's not just sex, it's two people IN LOVE. To me, two people in love is beautiful. That's a gift from God. There is no "Gay love" or "Straight love". There's just love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YO9FpWX57E&feature=related


Actually that movie/play is full of awesome, meaningful music. Of course the movie version sounds like crap with those lame backup singers compared to the album, but that's not the point.

LOVE!

 

[wmgorum]

Man, I'm gone for a week and I miss all the good discussions!

I wonder if my response is going to be inflammatory and I hope I don't get banned for this. I'm sure I'm going to repeat many of the arguments that have been made already but I want to have my say.

Marriage is no longer strictly an institution of the Church. From a legal perspective (which is what is being discussed here) marriage is a contract. Let's take a hypothetical situation: two straight athiests are married ouside the Church and it's a legal marriage. A marriage doesn't have to be condoned by the Church in order for it to be legal. Gays aren't asking for the Church to be forced to recognize their marriages; we're asking for our relationships to carry the same legal benefits as straight couples.

How is it fair that my partner can have access to my benefits because I work for a company who embraces ALL of their employees, but I can't access my partner's benefits because he doesn't have the same luxury? If we were straight, this would be a non-issue. This is just but one example.

I'm tired of being treated like a second-class citizen in my own country. My tax money is good enough for you to take but I'm not good enough to be extended the same rights that are extended to heterosexuals? Please.

I'm tired of my relationship with my partner being marginalized and equated with such atrocities as bestiality and child molestation. The consent argument has already been expressed here. Dwayne and I have agreed that we both want to be in this relationship. Animals and children cannot consent to this concept. What do you call forced relations on someone who does not offer their consent? ****. Is that what I'm doing? I hardly believe so. The absurd point was made that since animals or children can't offer their consent, none is needed. If a straight man drugged a woman and had relations with her, consent was not there. It's still ****. My relationship is now equivalent to a criminal activity because someone who is not involved feels that consent is not needed?

I'm tired of hypocrites who deny gays equal protection under the law but then LOVE Queer Eye for the Straight Guy or Will and Grace or La Cage aux Folles (The Birdcage) or any other thing that has entertainment value. I'm tired of having a night out with friends and going to a gay establishment and having to be careful what I say or do for fear that I'm going to be beaten up by some drunk straight man who thinks he's been cool and urbane (but has something to prove) by going to a gay bar because gay bars have better music and they like to watch the drag shows. I'm tired of feeling like I'm in a petting zoo or on Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom and the straights have come to see the gays in their "natural habitat." I think Margaret Cho summed it up best when she said something along the lines of "You are not allowed to take what you like from our culture and leave behind the burden of inequality."

Read the Bible: What did Jesus himself have to say on homosexuality? Nothing.

Yes, I'm upset over the prejudice and discrimination that I've faced and still face.

-Will

 

[phissionkorps]

Lol natural habitat

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Well Said Will! Well Said!!

 

[Outsiders71]

Interesting article:

http://townhall.com/columnists/Denn...decision_will_radically_change_society?page=1

And public radio segment:

http://dennisprager.townhall.com/Ta...tentGuid=39fe351c-9741-41bd-b977-5b202b417648

 

[herenorthere]

Sorry, but that's just plain stupid. And that's being diplomatic.

 

[Clint]

Oh boy. I love the writer of that. Only a true bigot could write an article opposing something in this context, and then say "Another reason for this decision is arrogance. First, the arrogance of four individuals to impose their understanding of what is right and wrong on the rest of society."

 

[BuddhistAdam]

As a Conservative, a Republican and a Christian, I would like to say..

thank GOD more states are finally coming to their senses..
IMO, it is UNChristian in the worst way to deny gays the right to marry..

Women couldnt vote..what was used to support that position? the bible..
Black people are slaves..what was used to support the position that they SHOULD be slaves??
the bible..
Black Kids and White kids are finally allowed in the same schools (amazingly..this is the 1960's)..what is used to support the position that white kids and black kids should NOT be in the same classes together?? the bible..
"mixed race" (black & white) heterosexual marriage was illegal...yep, the bible again.

using the bible to support anti-gay marriage is our society's last great fling with bigotry..
women got equal rights finally..
blacks got equal rights finally..
a black man can marry a white woman finally..
black kids can be in the same classroom as white kids finally..

only one outpost of bigotry and ignorance remains..
keep up the fight.

Scot

p.s.
yes, there are lots of Christians who feel as I do..
im working to increase their ranks..

(dont bother to reply to me specifically..especially if you want to tell me why, as a Christian, im wrong..I wont believe you, and I already heard it all..I still wont believe you..so save your breath..thanks...)

Here's the problem with the gay mariage ban: it's illegal. period. here's why: Bush is a Christian not that that's a bad thing but he's bringing his religion into politics which is illegal. I think gays who havent seen this need to get lawyers involved big time.

 

[Outsiders71]

Oh boy. I love the writer of that. Only a true bigot could write an article opposing something in this context, and then say "Another reason for this decision is arrogance. First, the arrogance of four individuals to impose their understanding of what is right and wrong on the rest of society."

Isn't it arrogant for 4 people to decide for the rest of the state of California? If I'm not mistaken the citizens of California chose how they wanted to define marriage. 4 people denied the citizen's choice and told them how California was going to define marriage.

I predicted that everything that was said in that article was going to be written off as bigotry or hatred.

 

[JRFxtreme]

The "writer" of that article is a total doofus.

I was actually going to go through the whole thing and point out the flaws in his "arguments", but by the time I got to this

Outside of the privacy of their homes, young girls will be discouraged from imagining one day marrying their prince charming -- to do so would be declared "heterosexist," morally equivalent to racist. Rather, they will be told to imagine a prince or a princess.

it was too painfully obvious that this guy has jammed his head so far up his *** that his brain is actually functioning in an alternate universe.

 

[Clint]

The irony is that people like him try to decide what's best for everyone else. They try to regulate morality for people he'll never even meet. There is hatred... and then there's ignorance. I believe you can be ignorant (not necessarily stupid) and not really hate anyone.

People did elect the person who put those judges into power. That's really the way this country works. That's their job.

It's not illegal for bush to let his religion influence his politics, just unprofessional. The minute he said that God told him to do this or that, there should have been a hearing. I don't want my president acting on what an invisible being says, or at least what he thinks it says.