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very, very good news...............

  • #61
Sheridan:

For hunters it would be easy to set up a target shooting range. No need to use cans, trees, or squirrels.

71: The thing about these scenarios is that it is so unpredictible that anything could happen. If I had a gun that could go in a variety of ways. I could be a hero or I could be a victim. Some criminals get scared into backing down and some get scared into getting people shot, when they otherwise wouldn't, had they been unarmed. It could be a deterrent or it could end up in disaster. Both happens in real life.
 
  • #62
Like others have said, banning guns from law abiding, permit obtained citizens does nothing but hurt those who follow the law.


And by that same reasoning, you should also oppose drunk driving laws. According to your rationale, those laws hurt people who drive drunk but don't get into accidents.
 
  • #63
And by that same reasoning, you should also oppose drunk driving laws. According to your rationale, those laws hurt people who drive drunk but don't get into accidents.

I don't understand your logic.
 
  • #64
I have to agree with Outsider on this one. I do not follow the logic tropics.

The reality is that guns are pandora's box. They have been opened and the bad guys will always have access to them. When I delt with those kinds of people I had many chances to get a hot gun. By making it illegal to own a gun your taking the chance to defend ones self right away from the law abiding people who would not get a gun because it is illegal.

criminal types will always find a way to aquire a gun even when they are banned.

JimScott I understand your rationale too, but we should have the right to choose whether or not to own a gun. Not the government since it is a right given to us by the constitution.
 
  • #65
I don't understand your logic.


Just because a person gets a permit doesn't mean he/she is not going to break the law by, for example, unjustifiably injuring or killing someone by shooting them. It's impossible to know in advance if a person who gets a permit will injure someone. But gun advocates conclude that all people who get permits should be allowed to possess guns (at least until they have injured someone) even though it means that those who will injure someone will be allowed to possess guns.

Applying that same thought process to drunk drivers, it's impossible to know if a person who drives while drunk will cause an accident and injure or kill someone. So all people should be able to drive while drunk (at least until they injure someone) even though it means that those who will injure someone will be allowed to drive while drunk.
 
  • #66
Well, a gun operator possesses all the necessary cognitive faculties to safely operate the gun. A drunk driver does not. They aren't the same but I see the point your trying to make


PLUR people. Maybe one day we can all get along. Or maybe it's inherent to our species to have a predisposition for violence. In the mean time I'll me waiting for awesome plasma guns. Wouldn't that be cool. Like in Star Wars!
 
  • #67
The trouble is that people want to compare things that don't compare well in reality. There are a ot of gray areas and not as many absolutes. The government attempts to enact laws in our best interest because without providing boundaries it is believed that people won't govern themselves appropriately. Having laws is a good thing, but laws aren't perfect. They either don't go far enough or they become obsolete or people find ways around them. And yet, some people don't need the laws. They would choose to do right irregardless. By the same token, you will always have people who will do what they want, even if there is a law (black markets). There aren't pefect solutions, nor are there perfect people. But laws are intended to be helpful in guiding lives for the masses. It is plainly obvious that there are a lot of people that are horrible in governing themselves and that is why they need to be governed. Look at all the people addicted to cigarettes, crack, heroin, etc... Look at all the people who live in the bottle. Look at all the people who shoot others because they are mad or want to steal. Folks, we're not doing too well, collectively speaking!
 
  • #68
Look at all the people addicted to cigarettes, crack, heroin, etc... Look at all the people who live in the bottle. Look at all the people who shoot others because they are mad or want to steal. Folks, we're not doung too well, colletively speaking!

And that my friend is the best argument I've heard yet to why guns should be legal.
 
  • #69
And that my friend is the best argument I've heard yet to why guns should be legal.

LOL! Less is better! Let's go back to name-calling and sticks & stones. The fewer people with weapons, the fewer people will get shot! We're not gonna convince each other, anyway!
 
  • #70
The fewer people with weapons, the fewer people will get shot!


I have to disagree with this statement. Pandora's Box is open and your not going to get rid of illegal guns. So why make it a crime to defend yourself on a level playing field. Why would or should we be forced to be a victim?

The 2nd amendment was put in place for a reason. So that the people could defend themselves against the government or whoever else should they need it. Because the crown they broke away from didn't allow them to have weapons, and that was abused by the crown. I know these are different times, but you never know what might happen and you need to atleast be allowed to defend yourself on the same level. The only boundary keeping me from owning a gun right now is because the gun I want is rather pricey and I am broke.
 
  • #71
Ya know, I've lived in the country, city, suburbs, and small towns. I've never needed to "defend myself with a gun.

The worst people I've ever encountered that I would have needed defending against were the school bullies, condescending co-workers & supervisors, people that decide my fate in jobs to let me go, and all those people who have ever mistreated my wife in churches she has worked for, putting our family out in the streets. Would you recommend a gun and bullets for them?


I have to disagree with this statement. Pandora's Box is open and your not going to get rid of illegal guns. So why make it a crime to defend yourself on a level playing field. Why would or should we be forced to be a victim?

You can get rid of most them by law. I've already said that you won't get rid of the idiots that go outof their way to choose to disobey the law. You might as well not have any laws because for every law out there, there will be those who choose to get around it. I will not resign myself / knuckle under for a few people (%) who just have to be jerks. And I certainly don't want a bunch of vigilante types running around, taking things in their own hands.
 
  • #72
The best example of what happens when you ban guns is easy to find. Look at all the university campus shootings, where guns are not allowed to be carried by legal means. I wonder how many lives could have been saved if guns were allowed to be carried by permit owning, law abiding citizens. Just because you have not been put in a situation where you believe a gun would be useful, doesn't mean you'll never be in that situation one day. The argument "the less weapons the better" is equivalent to suggesting that every law abiding citizen should be given a higher chance of becoming a victim.
 
  • #73
There was a school shooting where a guy shot two or three people, then took his gun and starting running towards an elementary school to shoot kids. One of the principals at the first school ran out to his car, grabbed a handgun, and shot the shooter before he could make it to the elementary school (don't think he killed him though). It doesn't take that much effort to know what would happen had the principal not had a gun in his car....
 
  • #74
The best example of what happens when you ban guns is easy to find. Look at all the university campus shootings, where guns are not allowed to be carried by legal means. I wonder how many lives could have been saved if guns were allowed to be carried by permit owning, law abiding citizens. Just because you have not been put in a situation where you believe a gun would be useful, doesn't mean you'll never be in that situation one day. The argument "the less weapons the better" is equivalent to suggesting that every law abiding citizen should be given a higher chance of becoming a victim.


as far as i am aware you can carry on campus in Utah and have been able to for years....have yet to hear about a campus shooting in Utah.......
 
  • #75
as far as i am aware you can carry on campus in Utah and have been able to for years....have yet to hear about a campus shooting in Utah.......

I'm not sure how that's decided if it's a State or University decision, but overwhelmingly I believe guns are not allowed to be carried on most campuses.
 
  • #76
The students who committed the Columbine High School Massacre acquired some guns that were purchased legally (by someone else) and others that they purchased illegally. A ban on the sale of guns would have prevented this tragedy.
 
  • #77
I'm sure the kid could have gotten a gun if he REALLY wanted one. And The kid being pretty serious, I'm sure he could have.

Its a persons Right to own a gun, if they have an astigmatism or 1 eye, or 3 fingers or what every its their right to own a gun regardless of their physical disabilities. Now if they are mentally unable to handle it, then they don't need a gun, but their will always be crime in humanity, at any level of society. People will always be able to locate illegal fire arms, so why not just make it legal to have one? Do we seriously want to ban every thing thats even a little dangerous for us like Australia?
 
  • #78
The students who committed the Columbine High School Massacre acquired some guns that were purchased legally (by someone else) and others that they purchased illegally. A ban on the sale of guns would have prevented this tragedy.

not really.....cause they could have used bombs......i can level a school for cheap.....prolly do it for free if i wanted to steal the ingredients which are easy to find and get ahold of, especially in the western US....fertilizer and diesel fuel hold alot of energy.

I'm not sure how that's decided if it's a State or University decision, but overwhelmingly I believe guns are not allowed to be carried on most campuses.

just looked it up....state law....a university has fought and lost in the Utah state supreme court a few years back.....students can carry a concealed handgun on campus in Utah and have been able to for years....yet there hasnt been a campus shooting in Utah.......weird huh?
 
  • #79
I'm sure the kid could have gotten a gun if he REALLY wanted one. And The kid being pretty serious, I'm sure he could have.

Its a persons Right to own a gun, if they have an astigmatism or 1 eye, or 3 fingers or what every its their right to own a gun regardless of their physical disabilities. Now if they are mentally unable to handle it, then they don't need a gun, but their will always be crime in humanity, at any level of society. People will always be able to locate illegal fire arms, so why not just make it legal to have one? Do we seriously want to ban every thing thats even a little dangerous for us like Australia?


Why should we make it easier?
 
  • #80
as far as i am aware you can carry on campus in Utah and have been able to for years....have yet to hear about a campus shooting in Utah.......

Correlation doesn't necessitate causality.
 
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