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It's going to be Historic either way!!

  • #141
As for sex ed, studies show it helps reduce unintended pregnancy and STD transmission. Since society is better with less of those things, society is better off with sex ed.

why is it so ineffective than? it is taught in schools here in the 5th grade.....not abstinence programs, full blown sex ed classes like you and schoalty suggest yet we still have high teen birth rates here? it aint any more effective than any of the DARE type programs are on drug abuse amoung teenagers.......are they maybe, might be effective on some kids? sure but not enough that i view it to be mandatory.....if the school wants to pesent anastinace program, fine by me.....full out sex ed....fine by me.....no sex ed or abstinance class....fine by me...........i dont care if they do one, both or neither.....think its the parents job to teach the kids.......if the parents cant get through to them the school likely aint either....

as fare as ID cant see anything wrong with presenting the kids with both.......any of them with half a brain will figure out which is more likely.......and those that dont understand it likely have no real grasp on how evolution works when they graduate high school anyway.....dont see the harm in presenting both......the school drug abuse program i went through was so far off base as to be comical with the holes and half truths in its material.....
 
  • #142
Teaching creationism in a mythology class with all the other creation myths is fine I'm a connisour of religions and mythology they all interest me on an intellectual & psychological level. But creation myths are not science by any stretch of the imagination. Simply because more people worship the bible and it's version of events today doesn't make the christian creation myth any more viable than the thousands of others passed down through history. I'll be willing to bet most all of you are "athiests" when it comes to Zeus or Ahriman... There are no scientific experiments which can support any of the creation myths unlike evolution which can be explained in part with experimentation and will likely continue to advance further if scientific research is not hindered by religious zealots.

Sex ed is valuble in schools because many parents today simply aren't June and Ward Cleaver who have oodles of time to deal with their kids, or even want to. Like it or not many peole today are still embarrassed by sex and aren't able to discuss these things with their kids. I appalud any teacher that can teach sex ed infront of class of giggling kids. Add to that many parents are confused and uneducated themselves so having them teach their kids isn't any grand plan either.They should get some decent info somewhere. It might be like asking my ancient grandfather teach me quantum physics when he can barely get along balancing his checkbook. "Abstinence only" ideal is a pipe dream that simply needs to go away in a progressing modern society. Hiding sex in a fog of obscurity is simple suicide. Simply saying "Don't screw, don't screw it'll blow your legs off!" over and over isn't going to help anything at all. At least if they had a decent education perhaps STDs could go down.

Don't even let me get started on the misinformation campaign that is DARE...
 
  • #143
Teaching creationism in a mythology class with all the other creation myths is fine but creation myths are not science by any stretch of the imagination. Simply because more people worship the bible today doesn't make the christian creation myth any more viable than the thousands of others passed down through history. There are no scientific experiments which can support any creation myth unlike evolution which can be explained in part with experimentation and will likely continue to advance further if scientific research is not hindered by religious zealots.

It takes faith in God to accept the Bible as truth. Just as it takes faith in science to accept evolution as truth. Neither can be proved absolutely true without accepting it by faith. The problem with the way it's taught are the teachers attitudes. Instead of saying "this is what science thinks" they say "this is how it went down". There's a big difference.

Sex ed is valuble in schools because many parents today aren't June and Ward Cleaver who have oodles of time to deal with their kids. Many parents are confused and uneducated so having them teach their kids isn't any grand plan either. Like having my ancient hick grandfather teach me quantum physics... "Abstinence only" ideal is a pipe dream that needs to go away. Saying "Don't screw, don't screw it'll blow your legs off!" over and over isn't going to help anything at all. At least if they had a decent education perhaps STDs could go down.

Don't even let me get started on the misinformation campaign that is DARE...

Oodles of time to deal with their kids? On something as important as this? I think the problem is people rely on public education and government too much to do everything for them.

There is nothing wrong with abstinence or teaching it. What is wrong with encouraging people to wait until they are married before they have sex? Not only will STDs go down, but the number of unwanted births and abortions will go down as well. Sure not everyone may be able to heed to abstinence, but contraceptives doesn't fix anything. In fact contraceptives give people the wrong idea, such as they are invulnerable because they are using them, which is false. Condoms break, birth control pills have many facets such as taking it consistently each day at the same time, and last but not least contraceptives encourage sexual activity without guaranteeing there will be contraceptives left to use. When Johnny runs out of condoms and gets lucky what do you think he's gonna do?
 
  • #144
No creation myth of any religion can be proven with any form of scientific testing. Evolution while it still has a few unanswered questions has physical evidence you can visit a museum and touch. Experiments have been performed and are now being performed which can prove evolutionary theories. How Humans Evolved by R. Boyd and J. Silk is a large but easy to understand introductory text to start with if you are new to the study of genetics and evolution. We get closer each year to completing the picture as long as studies are allowed to continue. I welcome all advances in science, longevity research, evolution, genetic enhancement, cloning... Knowledge is power. Power to control how we evolve from here on out is in our very hands.

Teaching Abstinence is fine as a facet of sex ed but to start it and end it at that is plainly dangerous and that is what those kind of programs are about "Abstinence Only" no other mention of other safeguards, etc.. No sex ed class I was ever in told us that contraceptives were effective all the time. Infact, what was drilled into us was that abstinence was he only way to for sure not pick up anything. That did not stop very many kids from humping like rabbits. The class field trip to the STD clinic was much more of an eye opener for many however.
 
  • #145
why is it so ineffective than? it is taught in schools here in the 5th grade.....not abstinence programs, full blown sex ed classes like you and schoalty suggest yet we still have high teen birth rates here?

I beleive you hit the nail on the head unintentionally here. You just said 5th grade. I don't know about where YOU live, but here, those are 10 year olds. You need to have sex ed in middle school (grades 6,7,8) and high school. Maybe not every year, but every couple of years at least. I got it in 7th(health), 9th (biology) and 10 (health). If I got it in elementary school, you can be sure I don't remember!

It takes faith in God to accept the Bible as truth. Just as it takes faith in science to accept evolution as truth.

This is one of the greatest falsehoods perpetrated by the religious right.

Science can make predictions. EVOLUTION can make predictions. These predictions can be tested. Guess what? They're generally correct.

Religion can make no such claim.

Science has OBSERVABLE evidence and is testable.

Religion can make no such claim.

A very wise ferret once said that trying to understand the material world with religion is like trying to mow the grass with a screwdriver. Wrong tool for the job.
 
  • #146
But a 6 foot white rabbit from County Cork, Ireland once said:
"Don't try to teach a pig to sing, it'll just waste your time and annoy the pig."

;)
 
  • #147
Reasons why Palin is a bad choice:

1) She has virtually no experience. She has only a bachelors degree in journalism from the University of Idaho, and was a pageant queen, a sports reporter, and a fisherman before becoming mayor of a town of 9700. Prior to her recent election as governor, that's it. And yet she's a heartbeat away from the Presidency, a valid concern with the elderly cancer survivor, McCain.

2) She's staunchly anti-abortion.

3) She's favors teaching creationism in science class (yikes).

4) She's an oil person. For Anwar drilling and off-shore drilling. Her husband works for BP. We need a break from these oil people.

5) She's opposes equal rights for gay people.

That's a start, and I think this really undermines McCain's argument that Obama lacks the necessary experience for President. A VP must be ready to assume the Presidency just like the candidate themselves. How can they argue about Obama's youth and inexperience now without undermining themselves? To me, this reads like an insulting and cynical attempt to garner Hillary Clinton voters just because he picked a woman.

Capslock

There's nothing wrong with fishing in fact its a plus. Besides for me, I don't like either party. There positives and negatives about both. I wish it were GORE!! Then I would have someone to vote for.
 
  • #148
Gore?..........................wow..............uh...........im speechless..............
 
  • #149
Gore?..........................wow..............uh...........im speechless..............

I think (hope?) he meant Gore as in blood, guts and splatter.

You know, may the best politician win.....IN THE OCTAGON!!!!
 
  • #150
lol..........yah know i could see voting for gore 8 years ago cause yah didnt like Bush......but wanting him to actually be running in this election.........wow.........thats about all i can say...
 
  • #151
when push comes to shove i doubt abortion, sex ed and creationism are even really going to raise their head in the next 4 years regardless of who gets into office.....while these are issues everyone talks about in all reality right now if yah sit and make a list of whats important to you(unless your a kid that hasnt been out in the real world) these three are unlikely to break the top ten as far as what ppl are truly concerned over and honestly i have seen nothing to show that they are flying high on any of the candidates radar so while fun to argue about they arent the real issues......

im big on states rights.....for this Barr is the best candidate, McCain to a lesser extent and Obama is way at the back........health insurance is another big issue, from all the research i have done its likely a wash in cost to the tax payer between Obama's and McCain's plans....however Obama's dumps in more federal buerocratic red tape and less options to the average Joe so ill go with McCain on this one........on taxes.......what Obamas preaching aint realistic......ill go with McCain..........ontop of everything else in his years in the senates(both Illinois and DC) the guy has never authored a bill or anything.....when he was the editor or whatever at the Harvard Law Review he hardly contributed anything which is odd........in the Illinois senate he voted "present" over 100 times instead of "yes" or "no" while i know this is common practice in the Illinois senate i view it as a load of cow manure.....add that to the fact he is using the fact he has run his own campaign for 18 months as proof he has more experience than Palin? christ looks more and more like he is a career politition that has got through life by doing as lil as possible to get by and hasnt held a real job........Palin and McCain on the other hand i can identify with.....Palin is a working class stiff from a working class family.....while i dont always believe in what McCain says i know he stands by his word better than Obama....he voted his convictions in the senate this last year knowing it may cost him the election....even if i dont always agree with him i know where he stands.......Obama sits and praises the lil guy while talking to his face than when he is infront of big city elites he refers to us as "clinging to our guns and religion".....tell me why i can trust him when he is worse than an old grey haired busy body down the street that says one thing while yah talk to her and another as soon as yah leave......cant like that........
 
  • #152
This is one of the greatest falsehoods perpetrated by the religious right.

Science can make predictions. EVOLUTION can make predictions. These predictions can be tested. Guess what? They're generally correct.

Bolded to emphasize. The point is no matter what generalization or prediction that science makes about the origin of life and existence, it is not absolute truth. There is doubt. To make the claim that science leaves no doubt and that the current theory of evolution is the way it happened is the BIGGEST falsehood of Biology. Which is why I said it requires the same amount of faith.

Science has OBSERVABLE evidence and is testable.

That is debatable in the relevance of Evolution and origin.

A very wise ferret once said that trying to understand the material world with religion is like trying to mow the grass with a screwdriver. Wrong tool for the job.

It never surprises me how egotistical man is, they think they know everything about everything. Wrong.
 
  • #153
It never surprises me how egotistical man is, they think they know everything about everything. Wrong.

HOLY HANNAH that was a logical catastrophe right there, thanks for the laffs- pot, meet kettle
 
  • #154
Obama sits and praises the lil guy while talking to his face than when he is infront of big city elites he refers to us as "clinging to our guns and religion

I have always lived in a small town and I don't see anything wrong with that characterization, it's quite spot on in the area I'm from. Perhaps people don't want to think that that's how they appear to an objective or outside observer but it is. :(

As far as Gore, I hate that guy because of his wife and her Washington Wives commitee to try and censor rock music with the PMRC. Ya'll will be shocked to know during that election I thought Bush might not be the worst of the two choices. I soon regretted that thought after all the problems and I considered the extent of the underground music scene, the religious right can't really touch us anymore. But it goes to show the fundamentalist christians aren't just a republican problem, Tipper and Al were democrats.

Tipper Gore's Book: Raising PG Kids in An X Rated Society
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-PG-Ki...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220634877&sr=1-1
 
  • #155
Again I just have a hard time with both parties. I don't want to vote for another Bush and Obama is sketchy. Go figure ??? Maybe I should just vote for Palin. She seems to have more brains than both despite wanting to drill ANWR.
 
  • #156
You can write in a candidate, Mickey Mouse can always use your vote! :)
 
  • #157
Sticking with the Bristol Palin pregnancy thing...

I was listening to talk radio while driving back home yesterday. The guys on the radio played a clip from a current The Daily Show with Jon Stewart episode (I think it aired on 9/3/08)where Bill O'Reilly uses the good ole' fallacious double standard on The O'Reilly Factor. Stewart plays a clip of O'Reilly stating that the Palin pregnancy issue is personal and as long as tax payers don't have to support the mom or baby, the issue should remain personal and out of the spotlight. Then, a clip of O'Reilly making comments on how Jamie Lynn Spears' parents are to blame and calling them pinheads is played.

It was such a perfect example... I always watch The O'Reilly Factor, and I remember watching the two segments mentioned above, but never made the connection myself. I can't seem to find the clip online. YouTube seems to have taken it down... This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Viacom International Inc. If anyone finds it, let me now. I'd like to hear it again.
 
  • #158
:boogie: :boogie: off topic. Love your avatar. Can't wait for the new Office episodes!!!
 
  • #159
Interesting read. So as not to be redundant, I'll just say that Capslock speaks for me beautifully. Totally agree with his viewpoint.

Palin was an abysmal choice. While I applaud her accomplishments, I can NOT imagine having her running this country. The facts of John McCain's age and health history make him a much higher risk for not finishing a term...and that would put her at the helm of this country. So she squelched "the Bridge to nowhere." Big deal. Any idiot knew that was stupid. That's not enough to qualify for VP in my opinion.

The choice for Palin was purely to get female and conservative votes. An obvious ploy. It wasn't based on who would be best to replace McCain if it comes down to that.

Although I don't personally care for Sen. Clinton, comparing the two, in terms of "women in government", is laughable. If I had to choose between the two as to who could skin a caribou, I'd go with Palin.

She wants to talk about breaking glass ceilings and yet she is against Roe v. Wade. How is THAT being senstive to women's issues? One aspect of empowerment for women is getting the GOVERNMENT out of what is a moral and very personal reproductive decision.

<TABLE class=tborder id=post895128 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_895128 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d1d1e1 1px solid">At the risk of sparking debate, I don't necessarily see allowing a mass of cells to develop into a human being afflicted with down syndrome as a positive.
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Down's syndrome children have a lot to offer! They are not just "damaged cells." While some aspects of raising a DS child can be burdomsome and difficult, you probably won't find too many families who would say they wish they hadn't had their DS child.

The most salient point of that is...that Gov. Palin had a CHOICE as whether she carried to term or not. She made her choice based on her beliefs, her family, her doctors and perhaps clergy. She made a choice that was right for her. It wasn't the government making the decision FOR her. Same with Andrew. He and his wife, along with doctors and any other advisors, were able to make the decision on carrying to term or not. That is a deeply personal decision and, either way, it's not for a (*coug*predominately male*cough*) government to decide.

Teaching creationism in school?? 1) There is a law separating Church and State which is a very very WISE law; 2) Creationism is a religous view and most often taught as a Christian view ignoring other religions 3) Schools educate in math, science, English, history and biology 4) Schools couldn't possibly cover teaching about ALL religions 4) Churches ARE schools for teaching a wide variety of religious views and values. You want creationism...go to a church school.

I have never understood why people want religion taught in schools when you have CHURCHES. ??? Schools...basic education. Churches...religious education. What is hard about that? There is no way you can mix religion into government and not have disaster.

And teaching abstinence? Her own daughter a poster child for how that doesn't work in preventing teen pregnancies. Teach abstinence...but be realistic and offer birth control if a teen makes the choice to have sex. In the case of Palin's daughter...the obvious "fix" to make it all ok...a shotgun in the back of another teen. Teen marriage...wipes the slate clean doesn't it?

It will be interesting to see how the investigation of Palin goes. I think somebody goofed in her vetting. Obviously they were focusing on two issues...female and conservative vote...and not her personal history.

I'll still go for the guy who opted to work for disadvantaged people instead of choosing a fancy law firm. There is no perfect candidate...but Obama offers far more hope that this country can recover its economy and its reputation which has been ruined by Bush.
 
  • #160
t the risk of sparking debate, I don't necessarily see allowing a mass of cells to develop into a human being afflicted with down syndrome as a positive

I find that most human beings, more-or-less, could be considered a 'positive'. Just because a person has a disaibity, that doesnt make their life worthless or forfeit.



As for sex ed, I had my first 'sex ed' in elementary school also. I remember it too... they taught the boys and girls basic gender anatomy separately but most were sharp enough to put 2 and 2 together anyways, and that where I found out what it really was. In retrospect, elementary school is too early. But highschool is too late.

As I see it, sex ed is VERY important because the urge to reproduce is a basic human instinct. Like it or not people are GOING to do it, some earlier than others. If they DO do it, they should know there are ways to be fairly certain that a pregnancy does not result. Parents may not teach it, mine did not. Pregnancy and birth in higschool can be very hard
on young women. No matter what a parents job should be too often they dont flikin do their job.
 
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