Post VP debate thread

[PlantAKiss]

Lame distortion of the facts..

using that logic, Biden has "been at this" for 6 weeks..

and McCain has "been at this" for 5 months, while Obama has "been at this" for only 4 months..

That gives McCain/Palin a combined 6 months and 1 week of experience,
while Obama/Biden only have 5 months and 2 weeks of experience..


therefore McCain/Palin are SO much more worthy to govern!!

I hate pointless distoritions like that..
you should know better than that PAK!

My point was that Palin herself is painfully aware that she is out of her league with this. I'll bet you my bottom dollar she has said to herself many times "What did I get myself into!"

I have nothing against her other than...she isn't qualified for THIS job.

The governor of VA was on Obama "list". I was pleased to hear this as Tim Kaine is from Richmond, was our Mayor (and a good one) and then became our Governor. Despite my liking for Tim Kaine, I did not want him to be Obama's choice for running for exactly the same reason I don't want Palin elected. HE doesn't have enough experience for the VP job. I am hoping Obama will give him some position where he can get some good executive experience and perhaps in the future Kaine will run for President. But he was no more ready than Palin is. McCain's choice of her was a last ditch political maneuver which I think has failed him miserably.

I too noticed the dodges (forgot to mention that). There were several occasions when she was asked a question, where she said "Can I just go back to the such-and-such an issue"...and then never got back to the original question.

And I agree with Capslock...if you see the transcripts of her words, a lot of what she is saying makes NO sense. She just...talks.

The fact is...neither candidate can follow through with their pre-bail-out platforms. They will both have to adjust to fit the ever-worsening outlook for our country.

I still hold Bush accountable for the USA losing its world standing. 8 years ago we were considered the greatest country in the world. Now we are just a continuing tragedy in world headlines...and not in a good way.

-----------
haha...I just saw where Google Ads inserted a Biden/Palin ad.

 

[PlantAKiss]

"Man, no matter what you say you are gonna get clobbered," Palin told Fox about her heavily-scrutinized performance. "You choose to answer you are going to get clobbered on the answer. If you choose to pivot and try to go onto another subject that you believe Americans want to hear about, you get clobbered for that too."

lol Ahhhhh...so I see Palin sees not answering a question she's been asked as "pivoting" to a better subject.

Yeah...it's called dodging...not answering a question you know you can't intelligently answer.

Palin speak: "We have trade missions back and forth, we do. It’s very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia. As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It’s Alaska. It’s just right over the border. It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there, they are right next to our state."

Well, I'll think about all this and...get back to ya!

 

[rattler]

I still hold Bush accountable for the USA losing its world standing. 8 years ago we were considered the greatest country in the world. Now we are just a continuing tragedy in world headlines...and not in a good way.

explain.......

Caps..................anyone with half a brain can see what Obama wants to do aint realistic......you cant tax the top 5% that CREATE the jobs, CREATE the goods and services we use.....cut taxes on everyone else and then add a form of socialized health care to the budget.......which is a money pit in every country that uses it.......Canada is going to be broke in a decade or two because of it unless they do some MAJOR reform to their system

to tax the top 5% means they are going to do what needs to be done to make money which means shipping more jobs over seas, shutting doors, cutting positions ect......want to do the best for the average joe? cut taxes on the top 5% and encourage them to expand their businesses and creat more jobs, give them more tax breaks so they pick up the tab for employee health insurance.....yep add a windfall tax to the oil companies just as the price of gas is falling......thats brilliant........

 

[Ant]

I watched the debate and all I can say is wow... both candidates suck. All they did was about nothing. When will our voting system be fixed so that popular vote wins or at least divide electoral colleges based on voting instead of winner take all? :-( I feel like next election when I can vote it wont matter.

 

[Capslock]

rattler, we see the results of the tax cuts for the ultra rich! Did it create jobs? No, we've lost hundreds of thousands of jobs! Did it spur the economy? No! It put us into a recession, and saddled us with massive deficits. Obama just wants to restore some sanity to the tax policies, give a break to the group that needs it and is struggling, and puts the burden back on those who have gotten richer in our declining economy! Under Obama's plan, those rich people will simply go back to paying what they did in the Reagan years.

Trickle-down economics is an abject failure. The rich have gotten richer and the poor are worse off than they were before. Giving money and breaks to the already-rich makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't trickle down - it gushes UP. The results speak for themselves. Just look at the last eight years of deficits and rising unemployment and inflation. Look at the Reagan years of massive deficits and recession. The people who create jobs are small businesses, 95% of which won't get any tax increases under Obama, and the majority of which will receive tax cuts. Prosperity has to start from the bottom and build upwards. Giant corporations, with their lobbyists and cronies, have failed us miserably. Their greed and corruption are deep. It's time the government starts representing us instead of them. You and I both run small businesses. We are the engine of the economy, not the Exxons and Wal-Marts and Enrons. Those are the parasites of the economy.

Capslock

 

[Tropics]

Generic Palin response:

There's a time when Americans are going to say, "Enough is enough with your ticket (Obama/Biden)," on constantly looking backwards, and pointing fingers, and doing the blame game. I've joined this team that is a team of mavericks with John McCain, also, with his track record of reform, where we're known for putting partisan politics aside to just get the job done for the people of America. Positive change is coming. Reform of government is coming. We'll learn from the past mistakes in this administration and other administrations. I want to assure all of the soccer moms and joe sixpacks out there that John McCain and I, we're going to fight for America. We're going to fight for the middle-class, average, everyday American families like mine. And we're going to forge ahead with putting government back on the side of the people and making sure that our country comes first, putting obsessive partisanship aside. That's why we need to send the maverick from the Senate and put him in the White House, and I'm happy to join him there. [Whew! Is that 90 seconds?]

 

[rattler]

yah know if Obama would just say......"I believe everyone in the US needs to have health insurance and it may require everyone pitching in a bit to do it for the betterment" i would have alot more faith in him on that, i wouldnt agree with him but i would have less issues with him on it. but what he is saying aint realistic to me.

i dont get where your issue is with giving tax breaks to help employers pitch in for health insurance........be it Exxon or you and me......if they give employees health insurance they get a tax break, if they dont they dont ........

actually push comes to shove i would MUCH prefer a flat nation wide sales tax and get rid of the IRS.....that would also take away most my complaining on illegal immigration cause they would be paying their fair share aswell.....

i aint interested in socialized medicine.....ive seen how OUR country handles it on a small scale, cant imagine how bad they would f'it up when 300 million ppl are concerned, or even half that number if the rest go with private.....

as far as the resession.....polititions like Obama and Biden have more blaim than Bush.......Bush has us in a war sure but we will likely be 90% out of there inside 10 years reguardless of who is president.....most of the at home stuff goes twords the housing bubble bursting which is a direct result of the democrates and was started by Clinton in 1995.......every time someone tried to reign in Fannie Mae and company the democrats cried racism and elitism, in that they were trying to keep low income families out of homes.....add that to the fact we cant get refineries built at home or punch more holes off the coast or the north slope because of those same democrates with the vast majority of our refineries being in hurricane prone areas what in the hell do you think was going to happen with the price of gas? if we had started drilling more at home and building more refineries at home 10 or 15 years ago we wouldnt be in this mess now.......

ill take trickle down economics over the highway robbery of wealth redistribution anyday.......

 

[Capslock]

Now come on, trickle down economics IS wealth redistribution. It's just the reverse of Robin Hood - stealing from the poor and giving to the rich. It doesn't work, it hasn't worked, and here we are.

Also, 8 years later, isn't it just a bit silly to blame the banking mess on Clinton? This crisis is due to the deregulation pushed by conservatives for decades (especially Keating Five member John McCain). It is NOT because Clinton et al tried to stop racist redlining based on neighborhoods. Rather, it is due to lax oversight and greedy lenders wildly over leveraging their investments. But apart from the banking mess, inflation is still WAY up (don't look at the cooked numbers, look at your real life), unemployment is up, the rich have gotten MUCH MUCH richer (and still haven't got around to creating jobs yet, LOL!), and the poor have gotten poorer. By design. Oil companies like Exxon have been fleecing us to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars in profits. It's not creating jobs, it's not trickling down. They just get richer and richer, laughing all the way to the bank.

Capitalism and competition work at the small business level. We're the ones who need less regulation and tax breaks. We're the ones taking risks and creating jobs. People with hundreds of millions of dollars coming to them in golden parachutes and executive bonuses don't give a crap about creating jobs or making sure their employees have health insurance or good salaries. And these bums have been calling the shots in this country for too long.

The number of uninsured and under-insured people in this country is a disgrace! The number one cause of personal bankruptcy in this country is medical bills people can't afford to pay. Other nations don't have this problem. They grew up and realized that EVERYONE needs medical care, and that it just doesn't make sense to have private insurance companies making billions in profits by getting between us and our doctors. Our health care system is a mess. I also wish Obama would just say that we need universal coverage. Because we do. We pay double what most countries do for medical care, and the statistics (mortality rates, etc.) show we aren't even getting the best care. It's time for Americans to realize we can learn a thing or two from other nations. Hell, even a poor country like Costa Rica pays for medical care for every person under 18 years old. If they can do it, why are we leaving so many people out? What's wrong with us?

Capslock

 

[rattler]

if you think im stretching for bringing in Clinton you really have no clue about what is going on and how we got here....Clinton is the one that dropped the oversite and allowed the idiotic lending cause he gave impression the government was going to guarantee them......this is one mess you CAN NOT blaim on the conservatives......this one rest completely on the shoulders of the Democrats from 95 on in both the presidency and congress....the senate committee that was supposed to over see it was completely in the control of the Democrats even while the republicans were in the majority....McCain tried to get it out of committee while there was a republican majority but it got stalled in committee until 2007........

tax breaks aint stealing from the poor if your also cutting government spending........only stealing from the poor if you refuse to cut the crap......

as far as the health care........for example, i have 3 employees that are enrolled tribal members on this reservation......they receive free health care via the local IHS clinic......free medical, free eye, free dental.......all would be considered low income by anyone(hell im borderline low income).....all three choose to take money out of their check each week so they can participate in our health insurance that the wife and i have cause they dont want to deal with the free care they can get through our tax dollars......our government cant handle doing socialized health care on a small scale what makes you think they can on a large scale?

 

[Ant]

If I remember correctly (I have no clue if I do, I was like 6 or 7 at the time) bush got ride of the bill that closes the stock market for the day if the stock prices dropped to much and locks prices into place so they can't drop any more, only rise.

 

[rattler]

some history shall we............

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[Ant]

ok, I'm worried now, rattler's youtube videos never play for me.

 

[Finch]

tax breaks aint stealing from the poor if your also cutting government spending........only stealing from the poor if you refuse to cut the crap......

Explain, that makes no logic.

 

[rattler]

ever think it might be your computer cause they work fine for every one else i show them too.......

 

[Ant]

idk, some youtube videos work for me, and some don't I guess. Its random, it will play like the first 30 seconds then crashes.

 

[rattler]

Explain.

ahhhhh simple concept..........tax breaks only mean more taxes for the "poor" IF the feds keep their budget the way it is at which point they have to get the money from somewhere.....hence they raise your taxes and mine........however offer the tax breaks to the employers to help them cover the cost of insurance AND cut government spending on unnessisary pork projects and you dont have to make up the loss anywhere so you dont have to raise the taxes on anyone........

 

[Finch]

But employers do not = CEO's, they would not be dipping into their personal finances to cover the cost of their company's insurance expenses, they would be using company coffers. If constant lowering of taxes is the platform, it is only natural to cut government spending. The less income you have, the less money you can spend on expenses. Budget balancing 101.

As it stands now pork will never go away. Voters love pork... for their area. Its the pork going to everyone else that people hate.

 

[rattler]

As it stands now pork will never go away. Voters love pork... for their area. Its the pork going to everyone else that people hate.

which is why its only a matter of time before the whole thing collapses on itself......see the $700 billion bail out bill that passed even though most of the voters were saying dont do it......surprised the hell out of me that they actually voted for it this close to the election.....interested to see if it makes a difference.....i know i aint voting to send Baucus back to DC this November

 

[Tropics]

if you think im stretching for bringing in Clinton you really have no clue about what is going on and how we got here...

Soon after Bush got elected for the first time and was having problems with the economy, Republicans blamed Clinton. The blame strategy seemed to work, so since then they have continued to blame Clinton for a variety of problems. Now it’s a habit. Republicans may be blaming Clinton for the next 100 years.

Republicans held a majority in Congress from 1994-2006, and have held the presidency for nearly 8 years. They said they would fix America’s problems. Now they say they didn’t. They indict themselves. Recently Republicans have been busy trying to find someone/something to blame for the financial crisis, as long as it not themselves. (Blaming Clinton didn’t stick, for obvious reasons.) They don’t want to admit that the Republican principle of de-regulation is to blame. Up until 2 weeks ago, there wasn’t a regulation that McCain didn’t like. The regulations eliminated by the Bush administration and the Republican Congress allowed Wall Street to go wild. Now we know that the “invisible hand” will take money from lots of ordinary people and put it in the pockets of the rich and influential.

as far as the health care........for example, i have 3 employees that are enrolled tribal members on this reservation......they receive free health care via the local IHS clinic......free medical, free eye, free dental.......all would be considered low income by anyone(hell im borderline low income).....all three choose to take money out of their check each week so they can participate in our health insurance that the wife and i have cause they dont want to deal with the free care they can get through our tax dollars......our government cant handle doing socialized health care on a small scale what makes you think they can on a large scale?

Obama’s plan recognizes that America’s health care system is broken and tries to fix what is not working while leaving what is working alone. His plan creates a government agency that will enable people without health insurance to enroll in either public or private health care plans and make premiums affordable for them. Obama’s plan will also give small businesses a 50% tax credit for providing health care insurance to their employees. People who already have health care insurance can keep exactly what they have. It will provide health care to most of the estimated 46 million Americans who don’t have health care insurance. There are a lot of misconceptions about Obama’s health care plans, and if you’re interested in learning more about it, here it is:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

 

[rattler]

yep i give you info stating which INDIVIDUALS that are the cause of the problem.....you say im full of crap and its an entire parties fault.......whos got there head stuck firmly up their rear in this case? i mean really.....i would expect a better argument out of my 13 year old daughter