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Thread: Post Presidential Debate 2 Discussion

  1. #9
    Two flies one pitcher. Minus the crap eating. obregon562's Avatar
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    BORING debate.
    "It's easy to rip on cops, when you aren't the one needing saving"

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  2. #10
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    you just noticed this tonight? this is why alot of republicans dont like him.....

    as far as putting someone elses twist on stuff....Obama's speech on how he will deal with "Pokistan" if they dont take care of the terrorists themselves is pure Bush....

    not sure if this keeps going over Obama's head though but he keeps preaching on bills McCain voted against and such that go against what he says he is for......well one major thing McCain is against is pork spending and he has voted against alot of bills he would have been for if they werent loaded down with pork.....

    BTW every fact check places i have seen ALL say McCain was crying out that Fannie Mae and company needed regulation far before Obama........so Obama is full of crap on that point consistently.....all say that while McCain is for deregulation in most things he has wanted more regulatory oversight on these programs for a looooooong time....
    Yep. In all fairness Bush was even for regulating Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac before Obama as well. I find it hilarious that Obama is trying to use deregulation, in the same context as a Federal Program. Conservatives are for deregulation, but not for deregulation of Federal programs...

    Did anyone else find it interesting that Obama is the 2nd highest receiver of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, yet he's only been in the Senate for 4 years (2 really)? This isn't just this year, this is in the history of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. It was also interesting that Obama had NO response to that fact either.

    Speaking on deregulation:

    BIDEN: Complained about "economic policies of the last eight years" that led to "excessive deregulation."

    THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are blaming for part of the financial crisis today. The law allowed Wall Street investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at the core of the problem now.

    Once again who oversees Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac? Democrat Barney Franks:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1UwIOqNxwc
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  3. #11
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsiders71 View Post
    Did anyone else find it interesting that Obama is the 2nd highest receiver of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, yet he's only been in the Senate for 4 years (2 really)? This isn't just this year, this is in the history of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. It was also interesting that Obama had NO response to that fact either.
    Misleading, at best. How shall we slice the Fannie and Freddie donations to the candidates?

    Based on employee donations to the campaigns: $126,349 for Obama vs. $21,550 for McCain.

    Based on contributions from directors, officers, and lobbyists: $16,000 for Obama and $169,000 for McCain.


    There have been no donations from the companies themselves, and by the first measure (employee contributions of $200 or more), yes, Obama is the second highest recipient. However, by the same token, by the second measure (directors, officers, and lobbyist contributions) show McCain with a significantly higher contribution number.

    Furthermore, if we really want to look at the political weight behind the combined contributions of employees, directors, officers, and lobbyists, lets look at the total combined contributions as a factor of overall donations to each campaign, shall we?

    All the contributions above for Obama combined make up 0.03% of Obama's total contributions.

    All the contributions above for McCain combined make up 0.08% of McCain's total contributions.


    So, I'll repeat, does Obama receive the highest amount of money from Freddie and Fannie employees of $200 or more (save one other politician who receives more)? Yes, this is true. But if we slice it another way, McCain has received significantly more contributions than Obama. It is up to the voters to decide which they think is more significant, employee contribution or lobbyist and the people that run the companies contribution?

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  4. #12
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xvart View Post
    Misleading, at best. How shall we slice the Fannie and Freddie donations to the candidates?

    Based on employee donations to the campaigns: $126,349 for Obama vs. $21,550 for McCain.

    Based on contributions from directors, officers, and lobbyists: $16,000 for Obama and $169,000 for McCain.


    There have been no donations from the companies themselves, and by the first measure (employee contributions of $200 or more), yes, Obama is the second highest recipient. However, by the same token, by the second measure (directors, officers, and lobbyist contributions) show McCain with a significantly higher contribution number.

    Furthermore, if we really want to look at the political weight behind the combined contributions of employees, directors, officers, and lobbyists, lets look at the total combined contributions as a factor of overall donations to each campaign, shall we?

    All the contributions above for Obama combined make up 0.03% of Obama's total contributions.

    All the contributions above for McCain combined make up 0.08% of McCain's total contributions.


    So, I'll repeat, does Obama receive the highest amount of money from Freddie and Fannie employees of $200 or more (save one other politician who receives more)? Yes, this is true. But if we slice it another way, McCain has received significantly more contributions than Obama. It is up to the voters to decide which they think is more significant, employee contribution or lobbyist and the people that run the companies contribution?

    xvart.
    http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008...d-freddie.html
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  5. #13
    rattler's Avatar
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    you do realize while Obama was a lawyer for Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland in Chicago he was suing banks for not giving out enough housing loans to underprivileged minorities.....the same types of loans that are now defaulting...........

    you know it blows my mind that some here have said they are surprised to learn about McCains views from last nights debate to find alot of them are the same as moderate democrats......ive been saying that since he was nominated......blows my mind that some ppl who i consider intelligent sit and listen to what a POLITICIAN tells you and refuse to go by their actual record, if yah did you would find half the stuff Obama is telling you is at odds with what he has done in the past and his story changed once he was running for president.....McCain, weither you like him or not is atleast telling you something that he can back up with his past practices ..........Obama was all for gun bans in Chicago and only changed his tune once running for president cause the SC said they were unconstitutional.....given Obama TAUGHT constitutional law for 12 years i find his actions in the Illinois senate very troubling.....every Supreme court justice said owning firearms was a constitutional right yet someone who taught constitutional law for 12 years said it wasnt and supported bans while he was in the state legislature........if you cant see something F'ed up in that you have blinders on

    personally im not big on McCain, never was, i really liked Fred Thompson and Ron Paul.....ive got alot of respect for McCain as a man.....dont care for half his policies as a politician but atleast the SOB aint looking me in the face and trying to feed me a bunch of rose smelling BS and in my book that counts for alot
    cervid serial killer
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    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  6. #14
    Capslock's Avatar
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    First, totally agreed on the worthless debate. Bad format, bad moderation, bad performances by both candidates. They phoned this one in. It was a wasted 90 minutes for both sides.

    There is, however, no question that there are stark differences in the policies of McCain and Obama. McCain is a war-monger through and through. He cheer-led the Iraq war from before the invasion, accepted the lies about WMDs, made bad predictions about how it would go, said we'd be greeted as liberators, and has banged the war drums on Iran as well. No surprise since he's surrounded himself with the PNAC people whose fevered imaginations led us to attack Iraq when Afghanistan let terrorists train for the 9/11 attacks. McCain is similarly off-base with health care and Social Security (good thing we didn't turn that over to the financial community, the least trustable people on the planet!) McCain is now trying to run to the center on things like alternative energies, but that is not his voting record, just empty campaign rhetoric. His position is not that of the moderate Democrat at all, and his voting record is pure Bush.

    And rattler, I'm not a gun control guy - hell I own guns. But I should point out that every Supreme Court justice also acknowledged a limit on gun ownership rights. You can't own a nuclear weapon, for example. So it's just a matter of where the line is drawn, and many people of high intellect differ on where that line is, whether it's assault weapons bans or registration requirements. It's fully understandable that people in violence-marred inner cities would favor more controls, and people out in the wilderness would favor fewer controls. This isn't the problem facing our country right now, however. I wish we had the luxury of voting for the candidate we agree with on where that line on gun control is drawn. But sadly, we have far more important things to worry about. Neither of these guys is going to take your guns away - not in a million years. But they do have to navigate us out of the worst economic crisis of our lifetimes. And that person is Obama - McCain agrees he doesn't know much about the economy, and historically Democratic administrations perform better on the economy.
    http://www.eriposte.com/economy/other/demovsrep.htm

    McCain is a trickle-down adherent, a failed economic ideology that is based in greed, magic, and the narrow self-interests of those dreaming up the idea. Every prosperous society on this planet has a healthy middle class. Under GOP economic theories, the middle class is declining and hurting, while the ultra-wealthy have become vastly richer. You can find many two-bit countries around this world with a tiny cadre of rich people and a vast underclass. That's the result of "trickle-down" economics. And it's the last thing we need here. We need to build from the bottom up, through encouraging small businesses, creating jobs, and building our future through education and training. We need to stop exporting jobs, stop buying slave-labor products at Wal-Mart, and basically change how we do things. Obama is our best shot at that - McCain will just bring us four more years of failed Bush economics.

    Capslock
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  7. #15
    rattler's Avatar
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    well given that Obama was for that line being drown on not allowing handguns in the home as a weapon specifically for self defense which is where the majority of the SC justices said it was BS

    unlike Bush, McCain has showed no inkling of basing his presidency on war......the one thing he seems to want above all else is to cut pork barrel spending and the like in DC....he comes off far more concerned bout fixing the problems in DC than warmongering........if yah listened to Obama last night he is all for going in and stopping countries from doing genocide.......means he is interested in more peace keeping situations like Bosnia and Somalia......crap that gets US soldiers killed just as dead as in Iraq....he said he was also in favor of going into Pakistan if they dont do what we want them to with the Taliban.....

    christ Clinton and most of the congress went with Bush lock step for a long time......after that the only thing McCain apposed was a time line........

    and as for McCain not knowing that much about the economy........when asked last night who you would get to advise you on it he rattled off several solid names off the top of his head....Obama didnt........so McCain is interested in surrounding himself with ppl who do know what the heck is going on........

    as for stopping the selling of slave labor products from Walmart.....the American public has gotten exactly what they asked for on that, being able to buy things at the lowest prices to hell with American jobs......we asked for it and we got it........you know how much chit the local stores here get cause they price something 2 or 3 bucks over Walmart? lots of locals, even with high gas prices would rather drive the 200 mile round trip to Walmart than pay an extra buck for a pan and keep a local store open.......that has nothing to do with who is president and everything to do with an idiotic public.........
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  8. #16
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    I don't understand? Is there some commentary to go along with this link?

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

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