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Are you out there, Joe?!

  • Thread starter xvart
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  • #21
I didn't get to see the debate because I was working but...I heard a little while ago that Joe the Plumber was full of B.S. Apparently he does NOT have the money to buy that business. Joe the Plumber was a fraud. LOL
 
  • #22
He said this morning that what he said was supposedly taken out of context. He doesn't make 250k now. He was just inquiring for info when that times comes. LOL
 
  • #23
I didn't get to see the debate because I was working but...I heard a little while ago that Joe the Plumber was full of B.S. Apparently he does NOT have the money to buy that business. Joe the Plumber was a fraud. LOL

This is case and point an example of liberalism at its worst. Instead of dealing with Obama's tax plan and the FACT that it will hurt small business owners, you're going to crucify Joe the Plummer because he doesn't yet have the money to buy the business.

Do you think Joe the Plummer is the only American interested in starting up a small business? Do you not think small business owners care about this discussion? Instead of dealing with reality you'd rather bat it down and say he's a fraud. Wow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuSMS17shAc

Spread that wealth around baby!
 
  • #24
Say what you like, but I nearly had beer coming out of my nose when McCain explained about his education proposal that would have folks go straight from the military to teaching without needing to deal with any of the pesky qualification exams or certification processes.

I don't care who you are, that's a painful idea.

[The clincher: I wasn't even drinking beer.]

i read up on this program today, its appears to be inplace now.........you still have to take the required classes, you still have to pass any required state exam......what this program does is that the feds help former soldiers go through it easily and do so at a reduced cost to themselves if they teach in a "school in need" such as inner city schools......the government also has a similar program for doctors and dentists......the feds will pay on your student loans IF you spend "X" number of years practicing in a Indian Health Service Clinic which are federally funded and you get paid a reduced wage.......the longer you work for IHS the more of your student loans get paid off.....

the program McCain was talking about isnt putting soldiers straight from the battlefield and into the classroom........they have to pass everything any other prospective teacher has to.........
 
  • #25
I used to have a small business (no employees). It kept doing worse and worse for the past few yrs and had to close this spring. Still do it as a hobby, but I sure miss it as work. Would be nice if it could get going again at some point. I just don't see that happening with the way the economy is. The thought of the dictator health care system is scary. Not only for me if I ever get to the point of having a business with employees, but for those currently in that situation. It would force businesses to close, people would loose jobs, and it would break the economy down ever further.

I don't think Joe plumber is a fraud as claimed. Probably more likely he was misquoted as he stated on tv this morning.

>the program McCain was talking about isnt putting soldiers straight from the battlefield and into the classroom........they have to pass everything any other prospective teacher has to.........>

That's good! He's doing alright then. :) As for Obama, I am not at all convinced that a few yrs as a community organizer and such that he puts in his resume gives one the experience for the presidency. Even Palin went further faster in her political career, or so it seems. That either shows a great capacity to learn, or just very good at winning popularity. McCain has been through a war, he knows the costs, and the consequences. As far as I know, Obama has never served? We're in a war right now, we need someone who knows about the subject. The way I look at it is, we can send in someone who's heard about it, or someone who's been there. Just my opinion.
 
  • #26
If you think about it, there's no such thing as a "fact." Everything's just other people's strong opinions. So every time I hear the word "fact," I've learned to be skeptical... How can there be so many contradicting facts, anyway? Words and phrasing and the structure of our language can twist phrases completely against their original intention.
 
  • #27
the program McCain was talking about isnt putting soldiers straight from the battlefield and into the classroom........they have to pass everything any other prospective teacher has to.........

See 3:50 Straight from the horse's mouth. Regardless of what the program is, this is what the man advocates.
 
  • #28
the actual program:
http://www.dantes.doded.mil/dantes_Web/troopstoteachers/TTTStepByStep.asp

guessing he isnt completely familiar with it..........
Certification. You must fulfill the certification requirements of your desired state, often by participating in a teacher certification program.

Becoming Certified
Contact state TTT office(s) for help with basic requirements and contacts to the teacher certification programs for each specific state.

Consider key factors in selecting a certification program: Program’s geographic location, cost, time-to-complete, acceptability in state where you plan to teach (i.e., reciprocity).

Apply and be accepted to a state approved teacher certification program. (Once accepted to a certification program, apply to TTT for stipend funding.)

Fulfill the requirements of the certification program, which may include coursework or training, classroom teaching and state teacher exams. Many programs will actually have you teaching in the classroom as a paid teacher while you are completing the rest of the requirements. Some programs are offered with resident instruction, while others may have on-line components.

so he f'ed up when he was speaking....if your going to hold him to that you really are going to have issues with Obama....the actual program he is talking about is a solid one....he is just confused as to what it requires.....
 
  • #30
the actual program:
http://www.dantes.doded.mil/dantes_W...StepByStep.asp

guessing he isnt completely familiar with it..........

Once again: Regardless of what the actual program is, the fact is that McCain advocates the idea of throwing vets that have no training or qualification in to the world of teaching as full-fledged teachers. That doesn't sit well with me.

The program may well be a wonderful one, I've made no comment on it. It don't care that McCain mis-repesented the program, I care that he thinks that the education system will improve if we inject untrained, unqualified individuals in to the role of teacher.

I figure that he'd find it equally objectionable if someone proposed the opposite- making teachers ranking military officials in charge of the lives and futures of others simply because they know how to teach. (Renaissance Man anyone? lol)
 
  • #31
well push comes to shove the education system in this country cant get much worse and i have been in a few classrooms that would have been better off with 9 months of a drill instructor instead of a teacher.......... :D
 
  • #32
well push comes to shove the education system in this country cant get much worse and i have been in a few classrooms that would have been better off with 9 months of a drill instructor instead of a teacher..........

I don't mean for this to turn in to an argument, so I'll avoid all of the potentially inflammatory analogies I'd like to make as to the whole "can't get much worse so why don't we just..." :p

However I can say this: There are programs by which people can teach while they undergo certification. There is no possible excuse for throwing someone in to a teaching position just because they've had basic training. Especially considering the continued relaxing of the standards for who gets in to the military. Proposing doing so has no basis in any logic, the rationale is merely "we need to give benefits to our veterans; they served their country!" I respectfully submit that a given person attempting this could better serve their country by never participating in any such program.

If you want to teach- learn how to do it and get certified.
 
  • #33
push comes to shove i do agree with you Est........but i do realize any legislation like that has to get through Congress so i feel its highly unlikely to come about even if that is how McCain feels........
 
  • #34
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by PlantAKiss
I didn't get to see the debate because I was working but...I heard a little while ago that Joe the Plumber was full of B.S. Apparently he does NOT have the money to buy that business. Joe the Plumber was a fraud. LOL
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
This is case and point an example of liberalism at its worst. Instead of dealing with Obama's tax plan and the FACT that it will hurt small business owners, you're going to crucify Joe the Plummer because he doesn't yet have the money to buy the business.


My comment was merely mentioning something I was told today by a coworker. She saw it on the news. How did that turn into crucifying??

Here are the facts:

At the debate Wednesday, John McCain kept bringing up the "fact" that Joe the Plumber would be taxed more under Obama's tax plan. The trouble with making Joe a national hero for conservatives is that the national media descended on Joe. They learned a couple of things, like (1) his name is Sam, not Joe, (2) he does not have a plumbing or contractor's license, items required by city ordinance, (3) the taxable income from his plumbing business would qualify him for a tax cut under the Obama plan, not an increase, and (4) he has an outstanding lien for over $1000 in backtaxes he owes. Maybe he wasn't such a great choice as role model for McCain after all.

And don't talk to me about small businesses. I was supported by one all my childhood. My father owned and ran his own business...a small print shop. He did not make $250,000 a year. He worked his butt off to make sure we had everything we needed and a lot of what we wanted.

Facts are that the vast majority of small businesses do NOT make that kind of money. And those that do make a quarter of a million dollars, they can afford to pay a bit more in taxes.

If my salary increases and I move into another tax bracket...*I* will pay more taxes. And there won't be anybody crying for me over it. ???


And...all I've heard the Republicans talk about is "Joe Six-Pack" and "Joe the Plumber". What about ME?? Where am I in their their plans?? ??? McCain seems to be very oriented to the male population. Women don't seem very important.
 
  • #35
PAK today is very different from when you were growing up......if we pick up the next two papers that we want we will be over the $250,000 and this is small town weekly papers....3 out of 4 have circulations of about 1,000........i do know what its like growing up dirt poor.....my parents both worked and we were still living on food stamps and gov't commodities till i was in the 5th grade......yes in theory "free" health care to those in need would be greatbut what you dont seem to understand is those countries that have it do not have the bottom 1/3 of there populous not paying much of any taxes nor do they give much for tax breaks to the middle class and tax the hell out of the top 5%......if you guys want this stuff your taxes WILL go up......there is no way around it i dont care what Obama says....
 
  • #36
And...all I've heard the Republicans talk about is "Joe Six-Pack" and "Joe the Plumber". What about ME?? Where am I in their their plans?? McCain seems to be very oriented to the male population. Women don't seem very important.

I think its more of a mentality thing. Like men and women calling an animal of an unknown gender "him" more often than "it" or "her". Male descriptors seem to be more common in general.


But I agree with her point about "joe" - he was talking in hypothetical, and not of himself. He was talking as if he was one of those people who would impacted be to make a point. He was not who he says he was and he was not forthright about his facts. He is not a fraud, but he is not in the clear either... at best he was being manipulative and underhanded to make a point.


tax breaks to the middle class and tax the hell out of the top 5%......if you guys want this stuff your taxes WILL go up......there is no way around it i dont care what Obama says....

And you have said you wanted a flat tax [I think]. Your tax would go up with that also! And up by a lot, more than likely. And mine, and most people here's.
 
  • #37
>I think its more of a mentality thing. Like men and women calling an animal of an unknown gender "him" more often than "it" or "her". Male descriptors seem to be more common in general.>

That was my thought too. People always call my dog a "he" even though she wears a purple collar. I declare they still would even if it was pink. Sure, she's 135 Lbs and all muscle, but she's still a she.

One time my brother got a 'possum that had been causing problems around. Even though he knew it was female, every time he told the story that 'possum changed genders. I'll never forget it because I had so much fun kidding him about that. :-))
 
  • #38
yeah but it will be FAIR......i can deal with alot of crap if the playing field is equal.....as is those that pay the least use the most....plus it will get rid of the IRS for the most part....and as a small business person who has delt with the IRS i can tell you i want them to go bye-bye in a bad way.....we got the SOB's to admit they were in the wrong and we STILL got fined...........
 
  • #39
My family never had any run-ins with the IRS, but I've heard horror stories from others like yourself who did. The decision to close down this spring due to lack of profit was actually out of concern that they would try to do something even though there was nothing to do anything about.
 
  • #40
yeah but it will be FAIR......i can deal with alot of crap if the playing field is equal.....as is those that pay the least use the most....

In what reality is that fair?


Paying the same amount regardless to income is the very opposite of fair. In fact, I would be so bold to say that it is unfair!
If you have a low wage job, like say a teaching position, and say 70% of what you make goes into taxes with the flat tax while a big CEO would spend say .067% of their income on taxes (random numbers but you get the point) is so unfair its unbelievable. What would truly be fair is if everyone paid the same rate relative to their income. That way people on the top pay as much of their income as everyone and those at the bottom can still feed themsleves. A flat tax would push millions of those people who previously were just getting by into poverty.
 
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