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A few weeks ago I noticed some very tiny bugs among one of my U. warburgii. Armed with a loupe & Google, it appears that they were the smallest aphids I've ever seen. Since I've heard that utrics are like dews in their sensitivity to pesticides, I planned on my 1st use of the relatively new (at least to me) uber-pesticide, fungicide, wonder-cure-all --> Neem oil. However, somewhere in my head a distant brain cell was struggling to recall more details regarding someone, somewhere in CP land using CO2 (carbon dioxide in the form of dry ice) to eliminate pests. I did some searches in the forums & found nothing. Back to Google & found this post over on the orchid forum. After endlessly searching for a CO2 supplier, I finally found one that was open past noon on a Saturday.

Bottom line, I mostly followed the instructions from the orchid forums* --> the aphids bit the dust** & the plants had a boost in growth.***

I'm interested to hear if anyone else has used this method, & if so, how things worked out - especially with other pests, like mealy bugs or thrips. Although it seems that this should work for any oxygen-breathing pest, some pests (specifically mites) appear to be unaffected.

Given the relative ease of application, low cost, lack of carcinogenic/mutagenic chemicals and possible side-benefit of enhanced growth - - - why isn't this approach more popular?

* - after starting with his methodology, I evolved to using something similar to his 'top-off' method. Basically, I placed CO2 in a double-wall, large plastic cup and then poured 1/8 cup of near-boiling water on the cubes of CO2. I then allowed the resulting vapor to pour down into the tank. Then repeat multiple times. Wait for an hour or 2 & repeat again... The hot water (as stated in the link), helps to reduce the impact from the temperature drop caused by dry ice. Just using dry ice might work but it might also freeze some plants (& kill them).

** - while I never noticed more than 3 or 4 of these tiny aphids at any 1 time - after the procedure, I sprayed the warburgii foliage with RO water and hundreds of tiny corpses formed a 'bathtub-ring' around the outer edges of the pot. Like roaches, there are always many more than you see. :0o:

*** - Some plants appeared to have a dramatic jump in growth, while others were unaffected. I'm planning to play around and 'pour' some CO2 into the tanks when the lights are on (when the plants can actually use the stuff) and see how they do... Maybe the boost was in my imagination ... :scratch:
 
I can't say I've ever tried it,but that sounds like a cool idea. Did you use dry ice? I can get that at any grocery store, at any hour.
 
So cool! And such common sense.. I love it!! What a great idea!

As to why some critters seemed unaffected, arthropods can close their spiracles - the holes through which oxygen enters their body. (they don't have lungs - no need for them with such a tiny body. they just have their respiratory system open to the environment, and the O2 goes right where it's needed.) Anyway, in times of stress, such as being dehydrated, or in a poisonous environment, they can shut them, and "hold their breath" so to speak for a surprisingly long time. The ticks I work with can survive underwater for days. So my guess is the mites just closed up and waited for the CO2 to disappear.

Also, a thought as to why more people don't use this method. It's very cool and practical for relatively small scale collections, like CPs or orchids. But much more commonly, plant growers have gardens and yards...difficult if not impossible to close off and infuse with CO2.

Still, this ranks up there with my favorite story of flea control. A family had zillions of fleas living in their house...carpets, etc. It was summer, so they chose a few hot days to stay at a hotel and leave the heat on full blast. It got hot enough that the fleas all dessicated and died...the heat melted the waxy layer of their exoskeletons. Killed 100% of them with zero pesticides.
 
The hobbyist called Greenthumbs has mentioned about light a flame over them and then covering it. The idea in mind is Oxygen deprivation. I haven't tried this out yet, but anything that deprives them of O2 should work.
 
Ron,

I dont remember the details, but i remember once hearing of a murder case involving death by dry ice.

The husband/wife sealed up the bedroom while the other was sleeping and placed blocks of dry ice in the room with them

and of course there is the Lake Nyos Disaster

Back in my Dupla style planted aquarium days I did the DIY C02 with yeast and sugar water...

as usual, welll played mate ;)
Av
 
dart frog keepers have been using dry ice to fumigate a terrarium for awhile....remove frogs, place dry ice in a dish to protect plants and place a piece of glass over the top......pretty soon the bugs are dead, other than a flush of mold for a bit afterwards no problems.....

with pests with most utrics you can submerge the pots for a few days and most pests will drown....
 
Did you use dry ice?
Yup.

The ticks I work with can survive underwater for days.
... and what is it that you do with ticks? (I've really grown to hate those things!)

But much more commonly, plant growers have gardens and yards...difficult if not impossible to close off and infuse with CO2.
They can solve their own issues... :jester:

...the heat melted the waxy layer of their exoskeletons. Killed 100% of them with zero pesticides.
... & then they had to repeat it in 2 weeks to kill all the babies that hatched from the eggs?
...as usual, welll played mate ;)
Wish it was my idea, but as we see, it wasn't me at all. I'm just surprised that it hasn't gotten more air time on the boards ....
dart frog keepers have been using dry ice to fumigate a terrarium for awhile....remove frogs, place dry ice in a dish to protect plants and place a piece of glass over the top......pretty soon the bugs are dead, other than a flush of mold for a bit afterwards no problems.....
I wonder if that is what caused the flush of gel-algae in my warburgii pot? The pot that had all the dead aphids is also the only one to have an explosion of this nasty blob-like crap. Some other pots have a little but that pot is all green gel. :thumbdown:

with pests with most utrics you can submerge the pots for a few days and most pests will drown....
Over the years, I've read about a lot of people doing this but not a lot with success ...
 
Did you do this in the dark? The O2 generated from photosynthesis might be enough for the mites to live on.
 
Did you do this in the dark? The O2 generated from photosynthesis might be enough for the mites to live on.

just make sure to use lots of CO2, if you can add it faster than the plants can convert it you can generally get by it....may have to do a couple rounds of it.....
 
  • #10
Did you do this in the dark? The O2 generated from photosynthesis might be enough for the mites to live on.
Yup - for this reason. However, it wasn't me that had the mites (I had tiny aphids). The original poster in the link tried to use it for mites (in his 2nd attempt) but they survived. I believe he even went for 2 days. At least one follow-up poster also stated the same issue w/ mites.

Although CO2 is heavier than air, I typically have some dense, waterlogged media in my tanks. After my original dosing, I try to follow up again with another dose and hour or 2 later & possibly another after that - specifically so the concentration of CO2 remains high, even after oxygen is slowly diffused out of other materials.

In addition to raising the visibility of this method/ approach, one of my reasons for posting was to get feedback on how it works as other people try it and how it does against other pests - mites, thrips, mealybugs, etc. I haven't seen any info on the last 2...
 
  • #11
I fogged some of my vivariums around the same time frame so I'll go over my results here also just to keep them all in the same place.

I have/had a few fruit fly like bugs, some garden worms (still don't know where they are coming from), and some small centipeds. The fogging killed most but not all of the centipeds, fruit fly's, but didn't really bother the worms. I had some spiders living in the hydroton also, they are all dead :-(. They were eating the other bugs and never moved up into the rest of the tank. The perfect house guests until I killed them.

I too would say my plants experienced a very rapid growth spurt, and none of them seem to have any ill effects from the fogging. I'm currently working on a trial system to "play around" with adding CO2 into a vivarium due to the results from the dry ice experience, it was that dramitic.

I might see 1 bug for every 20 I used to see, I have not done a 2nd fogging yet.
 
  • #13
Ron,
I, like Pyro, have read that on a dart forum somewhere in the past.... great idea to rid any unwanted pests.

Are you sure they where aphids and not springtails? Springtails typically do not bother plants at all.
 
  • #16
Are you sure they where aphids and not springtails? Springtails typically do not bother plants at all.
Initially I wasn't even certain they were bugs, they were so small and the 1st ones I noticed (on a flower stalk) didn't move for a few days. Then they moved. Then I got out my loupe. From what I could tell, they were aphids - the smallest I've ever seen. Definitely not springtails. I've got good populations of those in most of my tanks also. I suspect that the U. warburgii would have been dead in a few weeks had I not intervened. I'm very happy with this process & plan to use it again if I find any pests. I'm very curious to hear the results of others - especially on other types of pests - thrips, scale, mealybugs...
 
  • #17
A co-worker suggested ****'s Sporting Goods, in their gun shop, as one who would stock the CO2 kit. I went to ****'s, but they did not have what I was looking for. Spying a place called Bert's, along the way I went to them and they did have a CO2 kit.

Picture-5.jpg


Oddly enough, I don't have aphids at the moment, but I'm sure they will re-emerge as it warms up and trades get going again.
 
  • #18
I'll be curious to hear how this approach works. I believe I would still prefer the dry ice approach as I can see the mist coming off the dry ice - which I'm correlating with CO2 (incorrectly or not). I keep filling until the tank is pretty-much full with mist. Since it's a visual exercise, it's very intuitive & easy.

If you use a canister, how will you know whether the tank is 1/4 full or overflowing?
 
  • #19
take a candle, and lower it into the aquarium. since CO2 is heavier than air, it will sink to the botom of the aquarium. When the candle reaches a part that is submerged with CO2, it will simply go out.
 
  • #20
Reaper: A candle was also suggested by Indiana Gardener.

Ron: I have no idea.... but then again, at the moment, with flower scapes all over the place, I don't have any aphids. But I'm sure they will find my plants eventually! Let's see what Butch says.
 
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