TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk
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Local LFS
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Don't know yet.. I just took it out of quarantine today. I did find this in one of my red pots this morning though.
we already played that game, remember?
No knowing you are commiting a crime is not a defense...if this is a crime that is. If collecting sundews is a crime and he did it unknowingly it is still illegal. I know the last few states I lived in this would be illegal with or without permission from the land owner. The issue is he is bothering wetlands, and that is covered in a lot of states under seperate laws.
I would hate to see this end badly.
Sig
Eats genetically engineered tomatoes
Except people are still sending me pms (Why me)? about how it was illegal for him to collect the sphagnum in the first place, especially the red.
A quick google search and here is a lot of info I don't care to read about wetlands in Michigan.
http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,1607,7-135-3313_3687---,00.html
http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,1607,7-135-3313_3687---,00.html
lol sphagnum is sphagnum, sig, the red might only be temporary anyhow, ive had green stuff turn red and red stuff turn green.
in my experience, sphagnum grows at an insane rate, so i dont think he did any harm to the sphagnum or ecosystem, im not sure about the sundews though, its strange that hes getting tons of sprouts of D. rotundifolia when there were seemingly no drosera there.
if the land is private land, the owner generally has final say IRC, there was a huge debate on this not too long ago....
if Ozzy can go out and take utrics and dews from the boiling springs lake or greenswamp, then why is he not being flamed, but suddenly a new member who comes along, and gets heavy into the hobby, has hawkeyes on him, personally, i dont think he did anything wrong.
if he had gone and taken a truck bed of sphagnum and mature dews, then this would be a different story.
in my experience, sphagnum grows at an insane rate, so i dont think he did any harm to the sphagnum or ecosystem, im not sure about the sundews though, its strange that hes getting tons of sprouts of D. rotundifolia when there were seemingly no drosera there.
if the land is private land, the owner generally has final say IRC, there was a huge debate on this not too long ago....
if Ozzy can go out and take utrics and dews from the boiling springs lake or greenswamp, then why is he not being flamed, but suddenly a new member who comes along, and gets heavy into the hobby, has hawkeyes on him, personally, i dont think he did anything wrong.
if he had gone and taken a truck bed of sphagnum and mature dews, then this would be a different story.
There are different species of sphagnum, they are not the same. From wikipedia "Sphagnum is a genus of between 151 and 350 species" Now I don't know if he has all the same species or many different ones.
The land owner in many states does not have any say. None at all. Some of the states have massive fines for bothering wetlands of any type others it is like a $50 fine. Others require you to get permits from the state, others have no regulations.
Exactly, not to worry though the MI DNR has been contacted and informed. Once again, just because you can, does not mean you should. These actions and anyone taking part stand exactly against what this community stands for.
I don't recall any thread of Ozzy harvesting any of the above. I do recall however some VFTs he collected (whether legal or not) in order to spare them a certain fate. On a moral point I agree with him 100%. If you know of a thread or instance where Ozzy has done such a thing I'm sure he would be more then willing to fill you and anyone else in on it as to why he would have done something like this.
OK, so I'm totally new to this forum. But really...
This whole topic (same guy and situation, same everything), has already been debated. AN CLOSED...are we trying to close another thread?
http://terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122697
Is there really a need to keep going? I'm sure he understands your warnings and concerns. The guy is going to do what is going to do, if you don't like it then PM him. If you don't think its moral or kosher then don't trade with him. You are not the Fish and Wildlife Service or Federal investigators armed with google.
Now, this whole situation just seems redundant.
This whole topic (same guy and situation, same everything), has already been debated. AN CLOSED...are we trying to close another thread?
http://terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122697
Is there really a need to keep going? I'm sure he understands your warnings and concerns. The guy is going to do what is going to do, if you don't like it then PM him. If you don't think its moral or kosher then don't trade with him. You are not the Fish and Wildlife Service or Federal investigators armed with google.
Now, this whole situation just seems redundant.
Interesting--i found this on www.michigan.gov/dnr
Part 17, Michigan Environmental Protection Act, of the Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act, 1994 PA 451, as amended, requires public and private organizations, as well as individuals, to prevent or minimize environmental degradation that is caused or is likely to be caused by certain activities. Its requirements are in addition to those provided by any other environmental law
Part 17, Michigan Environmental Protection Act, of the Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act, 1994 PA 451, as amended, requires public and private organizations, as well as individuals, to prevent or minimize environmental degradation that is caused or is likely to be caused by certain activities. Its requirements are in addition to those provided by any other environmental law
Talk about redundant..
"The state's laws differ considerably between collecting wild "native" plants and collecting native plants on private property."
The owner of private property has what they consider a "nuisance" and they told me to "take it all out of here, it just get's in the way". On the same not, how can our local nursery buy a peat bog in the Saginaw area, and harvest said peat to sell at their store? My "guess" would be because it has been purchased and has now become private property.
So really the only thing I may be doing wrong is using USPS to send "products" over state lines. They also no longer allow people to use their company to ship tarantulas. Which is why UPS and FedEx are the main source of shipping. But then again, when the USPS counter person asked what the contents of the package was and I said,"Live moss..". He replied with,"OH Okay.. it looked like a big bag of pot, so I had to ask." Guess they don't really have a problem with shipping said product over state lines.
NOW, onto the moral part of the discussion.. The property owner MOWS AS MUCH OF THIS STUFF DOWN AS HE CAN!! So, I am indeed saving this moss and it's contents from imminent destruction. And the trade and sale of these materials is strictly going to growers and cultivators. So, IMO.. I'm ensuring it's survival. Don't judge me if you don't know what the whole story is. Maybe you should've done more research..
Something else I just thought about.. according to you, the property owner isn't allowed to mow his property because that would be considered destruction and removal. So he could be arrested for mowing his lawn and removing the waste?
And we already covered the fact that, sphagnum moss and sundews are not on the Michigan endangered/protected list.
"The state's laws differ considerably between collecting wild "native" plants and collecting native plants on private property."
The owner of private property has what they consider a "nuisance" and they told me to "take it all out of here, it just get's in the way". On the same not, how can our local nursery buy a peat bog in the Saginaw area, and harvest said peat to sell at their store? My "guess" would be because it has been purchased and has now become private property.
So really the only thing I may be doing wrong is using USPS to send "products" over state lines. They also no longer allow people to use their company to ship tarantulas. Which is why UPS and FedEx are the main source of shipping. But then again, when the USPS counter person asked what the contents of the package was and I said,"Live moss..". He replied with,"OH Okay.. it looked like a big bag of pot, so I had to ask." Guess they don't really have a problem with shipping said product over state lines.
NOW, onto the moral part of the discussion.. The property owner MOWS AS MUCH OF THIS STUFF DOWN AS HE CAN!! So, I am indeed saving this moss and it's contents from imminent destruction. And the trade and sale of these materials is strictly going to growers and cultivators. So, IMO.. I'm ensuring it's survival. Don't judge me if you don't know what the whole story is. Maybe you should've done more research..
Something else I just thought about.. according to you, the property owner isn't allowed to mow his property because that would be considered destruction and removal. So he could be arrested for mowing his lawn and removing the waste?
And we already covered the fact that, sphagnum moss and sundews are not on the Michigan endangered/protected list.
Sig
Eats genetically engineered tomatoes
Buhwuh? He mows a QUAKING BOG? Did you know that's impossible?
http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122113&highlight=found+sphagnum
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