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Health insurance - why bother?

  • #41
I'm fine with universal healthcare... IF people making unhealthy choices pay for the excess costs they're forcing on everyone else (It's true with private insurance, why not public?). Stop doing whatever that is for a certain amount of time, and you're fine. If you drive a donorcycle without a helmet I don't see why I should have to pay for your million dollar surgery and transplant that you're taking from someone else. Same goes for tanaholics, alcoholics, smokers and whatever.

If it would reduce the stress to the system then I'd also support free nicotine patch programs and things like that... Those types of things, in the end, I think are very cost effective.

By the way, I've heard of a proposition for motorcycle drivers to have to fill out an organ donor card. I've also heard of minor tax cuts to those who fill them out. What do you think of that?
 
  • #42
Nothing is red or blue.

As far as I am concerned both the Republicans and Democrats have their hands in all of the same multi-national corporations.

The fact that we go from one side to the other just shows how broken our system is. A democracy is not two sides. A democracy is representation by all. As far as I am concerned I have not had representation since Clinton was in office, and I was too young to realize what a good job he was doing.

I'm all for universal health care.

Because if hospitals and doctors were ran by the government then they would feel the pressure to not have unhealthy citizens. As it stands now, unhealthy citizens create business for the insurance companies and business for doctors. If it were government run and the burden was bore upon the back of the government's finances and our taxes, then there would be a push to make more people healthier to cut costs.

As it stands we are fed garbage food that is full of pesticides, chemicals, GMO derivatives and things I can't even pronounce. We are taught that putting chemicals in every orifice of our bodies is healthy and good.

It is for these reasons that the United States has some of the most unhealthy, and obese people in the world.

It is for these reasons the cost of health care in the United States is higher than anywhere else.
 
  • #43
show me one thing the US government has run correctly without costing 10 times what it should if it was done by a private company......
 
  • #44
Dex it's true, the senators just put a laundry basket on the floor and tell the lobbyists to fill it up and then they'll talk business. Used to be that was kinda hidden but nowadays it's pretty obvious how much all of congress is in bed with big business. All this "trickledown economics" theory we've had since the 80s seemed to be the parting of the veil where they just blantantly put it all out there.

It's true that on average the poorer you are the less healthy you are, unhealthy food is very cheap and what most people can afford. Fruits and vegetables is a lot more expensive and organics are astronomical - who really knows if they are organic or not I always wonder. I can live for a week or more off a box of 16 Archer Farms Corny Dogs from Target for $5 but should I? LOL
 
  • #45
The price of organics is not truly "astronomical" and I'm saying that from living in a place where all food has to be imported and is therefore more expensive.

The truth is that the price of crap is "subterranean".

and Rattler, your request for an answer to your statement does not nullify the pertinence of my point.

I cannot come up with an example of something that our government can do cheaper or more quickly than a private company, but I suspect that has something to do with the fact that our legal system has been sculpted over the last several decades to benefit and keep the safe the leaders of a free-market enterprise.
 
  • #46
I bought groceries at Whole Foods one time, it was astronomical for me! I'd never spent so much in my life on food! LOL
 
  • #47
I believe you meant:

I bought groceries at Whole Foods one time, it was astronomical for me! I'd never spent so much on my life in food! LOL
 
  • #48
as far as congress, we started going down the toilet when you could make being a congressman a career......was set up to be a public service.....get rid of the premium health insurance and pension benefits to congress as well as the ability to give themselves a raise......they should not be exempt from what they force on the rest of us.....might make them think twice bout most the crap they do.....
 
  • #49
I agree with you there! The whole shinnanigan is busted, red, blue, white whatever, it's broken.
 
  • #50
I agree with you there! The whole shinnanigan is busted, red, blue, white whatever, it's broken.

That is something I think we can all agree on. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
 
  • #51
About the garbage food problem... you can blame most of that on the corn subsidies. Most of the US is actually poorly suited for growing corn with many much better alternatives... so the only reason that corn is the biggest cash crop is because of the massive incentives by the government. It started out necessary and just grew pointless and out of control. Only a couple percent of the corn grown in the US is directly used as human food. About 50% goes to animal feed, which is what fuels their unhealthy diet and therefore ours, 40% goes to ethanol, which is just plain stupid to do with a food crop versus cellulose and other inedible forms and is only ever bought because the US gives it a huge tax incentive plus a protection tarrif from sugarcane ethanol, and about 7-8% goes to corn oil, starch, and syrup.

Without the corn subsidies it is more cost effective, and therefore people would do it, to grow GRASS for cattle. It's about ten times more efficient to grow hemp for ethanol WITHOUT the massive pesticides, fertilizer, and irrigation needed for corn (Though much of the reason we don't do this is because the government makes no distinction between it and marijuana.) Remove the corn subsidies and you might find vegetables cheaper than beef for once. It would put real sugar back. Growing organically with lots of variety would be worthwhile for big corporations. And considering that 70% of the amazon rainforest destruction is for growing cattle feed for the US, if growing locally is a cheaper alternative that would basically stop the rainforests annihlation.

/end rant. Now you know a big thing to blame, at least.

Happy thanksgiving.
 
  • #52
Couldn't have said it better SIG.

That is the truth of the matter.
 
  • #53
OH and I in now way endorse the current system. My health insurance sucks too. My employer has dropped HMO and PPO and now only offers high deductible which they self insure. So if they don't pay out, they make money. I'll let you decide if they pay out or not.

Our plan is self-funded also, and 'not for profit'. You'd think the not-for-profit thing is cool, but being self funded they try their hardest to not pay. They denied part of my wife's hospital claim, which we've appealed 3 times now (max allowed and final decision). That alone is over $10k we are on the hook for now. It's such a slow, tedious process, on purpose I'm sure. My only option is sue. I talked to the state insurance comm. but they are backed up big time and that's another tedious process to start.

I have a friend from Japan...he loved his health care system. I must admit it sounds good to me.

I agree with you there! The whole shinnanigan is busted, red, blue, white whatever, it's broken.

Yes. No matter who wins in a vote, we lose.

Both sides have their hands in corporate wallets. Most politicians are rich to begin with. They are supposed to serve the will of the people, yet spend millions on their campaigns. You know something is wrong when someone spends millions of their own money to get into a public service position. Because it's not about public service, it's about scratching the right backs and making the right deals to further their own interests, both financial and political. The two party system is broken, and further, our politicians are sailing this country out to sea. I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't uprisings in the future given the state our political system.

About the garbage food problem... you can blame most of that on the corn subsidies. Most of the US is actually poorly suited for growing corn with many much better alternatives... so the only reason that corn is the biggest cash crop is because of the massive incentives by the government. It started out necessary and just grew pointless and out of control. Only a couple percent of the corn grown in the US is directly used as human food. About 50% goes to animal feed, which is what fuels their unhealthy diet and therefore ours, 40% goes to ethanol, which is just plain stupid to do with a food crop versus cellulose and other inedible forms and is only ever bought because the US gives it a huge tax incentive plus a protection tarrif from sugarcane ethanol, and about 7-8% goes to corn oil, starch, and syrup.

Without the corn subsidies it is more cost effective, and therefore people would do it, to grow GRASS for cattle. It's about ten times more efficient to grow hemp for ethanol WITHOUT the massive pesticides, fertilizer, and irrigation needed for corn (Though much of the reason we don't do this is because the government makes no distinction between it and marijuana.) Remove the corn subsidies and you might find vegetables cheaper than beef for once. It would put real sugar back. Growing organically with lots of variety would be worthwhile for big corporations. And considering that 70% of the amazon rainforest destruction is for growing cattle feed for the US, if growing locally is a cheaper alternative that would basically stop the rainforests annihlation.

/end rant. Now you know a big thing to blame, at least.

Happy thanksgiving.

Agreed. The corn industry is one big corrupt mess that we all are paying for in one form or another. But there are many examples of that going on as we speak.
 
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  • #54
Since it sort of fits the topic I'll add what death is like for poor people. I found my dad dead this Thanksgiving and with his bad heart (due to cigarettes) and history of heart surgeries no company would cover him with life insurance, even those "no medical checkup" ones from TV. So when they came to collect the body I told them to take him to wherever they were going to do the cremation because there is no money for a funeral ($4500 base fee) and I cant afford to claim the body to some private funeral home (extra $3000). And these are the CHEAPEST prices from the state run funeral home and doesn't include anything just transportation and space rental every other thing is an extra $500+ each step of the way. A standard "nice" cremation funeral will run about $8000-10,000. I have the menu of services they give you if anyone wants to know each price for each thing. If you want a coffin funeral and burial plot those prices are even higher.

So your basic cremation is a $1500 flat fee for collection & burning, no urn, no returned ashes, just scattered to the four winds. I signed up for county assistance to pay for it cos I'm already working on $10K debt and my dad never had much of anything unless I bought it for him, so there's no estate to take it out of. The cremation place said they think the county will pay all or most of it but I won't know for some weeks yet. Social Security gives a death benefit of UP TO $255 to "cover funeral costs"! If my dad were a ranchers sheep killed by a wolf I'd get $350 from the feds! LOL
 
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  • #57
I got a call from the Cremation Society today, they said the county has agreed to pay for the cremation of the remains. However, my dad had nothing, if you have cars or property or money or a house they probably will not cover it. But anyway, if you're poor and find a relative dead at least you're not doubly screwed.
 
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