Circle of trust

[Acro]

1. Giveaways - most people are grateful but a lot of people give you grief about shipping around their schedule or the plant being smaller, bigger, roots being too big! You name it I have heard it. So my future giveaways will have strict guidelines.

2. Scams - I have gotten scammed from 3 people this year that I can remember. And I'm sure the names would shock you. Not going to admins because tried that and it didn't work. Not looking for someone else to resolve the issue. Simple fix for me is to only trade with the people I trust. Most likely if your not on a first name basis I will be weary.

Stricter Guidelines are the way to go with any sale, trade or give away. I've been buying, selling and trading live animals and plants online for about 15 years. I used to be loose with my terms but I've found that things just go smoother when all the details are covered. Type up some terms, save them and then paste them at the bottom of each sale/trade/giveaway. Once that's done, it's easy and everything goes smooth.

I've also had members forget to notify when they have received a giveaway from me. I do feel that it's polite to let someone know if you've received something for free. Also, I worry about the live plants I send out, and it's nice to know they arrived safe. I've found that if I ask a person to PM me when the package arrives in the last private message AND with a little note in the box, I normally get a "the package arrived" PM.

I do realize, that once I give something away, it's no longer mine. And the person who I give it to can do whatever they want with it. They might stomp on the box once it arrives, they might sell it, they might give it to a friend, they might love it and make it prosper and help spread it by having 100s of giveaways on this forum.

As for ungrateful people who complain about the size of a plant. I tell them that (1) the size was mentioned in the thread. (2) "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth". And (3) if they complain they won't receive anything free from me in the future. At that point, most will realize their mistake and then show their appreciation.

As for trade scams, I am very trusting but I look for a few things. I check how long the person has been on a forum. I check how many posts the person has. If they been on the forum for a shorter time than me, or if they have only a few posts, I make them send first (It's also worth checking what types of posts they make). Once their package arrives, then I'll ship out to them. After I know they are trustworthy, if we trade again, then I'll ship on the same day as they ship. (Do keep in mind, that if you are going to trade with someone else who has more post or years on you, and you haven't traded with them, you must be willing to ship first if they ask you to.)

But if something does go wrong, report it. Reports add up and can help identify a "bad egg".

the first post in the "trading" section be an offering, trade or giveaway before you can sign up to receive.

This is problematic because many new members don't have anything to trade. I was fortunate and I had some aquarium plants and fish to offer. Actually, Jcal, you were the first person to trade with me!

What I find on many animal/plant forums, but I do not find here, is a REVIEW SECTION. I think it would do the forum a great deal of good if we had one. That way, we could report the good experiences and the bad for each member we deal with. I have a huge list of positive reviews on other forums, but on here, no one knows it. Am I safe to trade with or not? On this forum, there is no way to tell.

But yes, this is my first and only Carnivorous Plant forum that I'm a member of. I'm still having fun and I hope to continue that!

 

[anramitaco]

This is an interesting thread. It's a shame that there are so many people who come here looking for free plants and have nothing to contribute in return.

Whenever I look over the trading post, I hardly recognize anyone in the comment section who has entered into various giveaways.

I'm a relatively new TF member and don't post very often in discussions, mostly because there is already so much information posted and I'd rather search through the forum than start a new thread asking a question that has been answered over and over again. So I guess that makes me more of a lurker. But when I feel I have something to contribute to the community, I do. Usually, that's some extra plant material that doesn't seem to be common in cultivation. I'm not interested in making money from cuttings or seedlings and would rather share what I have with other growers. I don't mind not hearing about the plant's safe arrival (if USPS says it was delivered and the recipient doesn't complain about not getting it, I just assume no news is good news), but sometimes I'll send a follow-up email, just to see how it's doing.

There's a lot of potential with giveaways and trades: building a network of growers, sharing cultivation techniques, spreading around plant material that is otherwise hard to come by. As Dexenthes said, a lot of people in the trade section are new, inexperienced, etc. That's not at all surprising. People who have already established relationships with other growers can pretty much bypass the trade section. So I know that there's a chance the plant may go to someone who will kill it, but that's a chance I'm willing to take.

 

[adnedarn]

I did contact you. For the first one that happened awhile ago.

The most current instances have not been reported.

Huh, sorry about that. I keep a download of all of my PMs since 2007-08-17 22:27 (that's my oldest one) and see none from you regarding a complaint. I have all my emails since 1/11/2007 and don't see anything in there from you either. Unless you've changed your name or something at some point, I don't remember. Or maybe you had contacted a mod, but I don't see anything about that in the moderator forum either (which would require them to post something).
Either way, sorry whatever issue you had was not given the attention it deserved. :`( this makes me sad.

I feel a bit of the here for the free stuff crowd is a bit of our fault- but I won't say it is new. For as long as I've been on this forum (I joined it in 2001 only a couple months after it was created by luck and was member 27 IIRC) there has always been a wonderful group of people doing giveaways. And there has always been people joining the forum to get in on those giveaways. People have always either been fine with knowing their plants could be going to these types of people, or they put restrictions and limits on the giveaway, which as mentioned we have seen lots of really creative stuff. This forum will never limit your ability to decide what you do with your plants. If you want to give them away to anyone, go for it. If you want to put so many restrictions and stipulations on your giveaway that it takes 2 years for someone to finally fit them in order to accept your plant, that's fine by me too.

I do have methods to make it so people with only so many posts/registration time/activity on the forum can participate in the trading forum, but what I've seen on other (non-cp) forums is that people just spam the forum to get past these things. So then you end up with a lot of "nice plant" posts or whatever in order for them to get into the trading forum. I'm not willing to compromise the general forum with these types of posts in order to attempt to keep these people off of the forum. I'd rather people who are worried about it, to put restrictions on their posts. Heck, steal someone else's giveaway ideas if you want to

I appreciate all of you, and the differences we all bring to this community. The mods and myself are here if you need help, sure sometimes we need reminders or sometimes we may not get directly back to you... But feel free contact another mod if you don't think you're getting the attention you need on an issue. And remember this, if you use that "report" button.... It creates a post in the moderator forum, where all of us can work on an issue at once! That's the best way to do it, so we can all see the issue, and make sure it is being followed up on, as well as having a visual reminder right there when we log in.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[RSS]

I have a little different view than most out there so I'll try and share it. When I originally joined TF I traded some to get the basic plants I wanted, while doing this I added many people to my "circle of trust". Over the years I've sent and received many plants from people I developed a relationship with due to joining the TF community. Every year I received (mostly non-solicited, sometimes I just want something) more plants from these same people than I am able to "trade" back. I have almost completely stopped trading mostly due to this example. I get a random PM, they want to trade for X plant, I find a single item on there growlist I might want and agree to trade. Photo's are exchanged so we each know what we are getting and I get the following, your plant is only worth $20 and mine is worth $40 you need to add something else. This is were I generally say no thanks and now I just answer random PMs with I don't trade anymore.

The end result of these "extras" is the feeling that I should "give back" to the community as a whole and that is what I have been trying to due over the last several years. I've been adding more rules to my giveaways to make the process easier for my wife and me. Many of my requests, (hey I'm trying out a new medium, let me know what you think, or I'm trying a new shipping method give me some feedback) go unanswered which in turn makes me think they really don't appreciate the time and effort involved in running a giveaway. Spending a few minutes to type a PM is nothing compared to the time involved in just packing one of these boxes up, printing the shipping label, typing the giveaway thread, or the trip to the post office. I could go on, its a lot more work than most realize.

I understand the concern but I still have the same drive to keep running these giveaways, I have received and continue to receive more value from the TF community than I'm giving back.

I'm going to continue with as many giveaways as my health allows in the hopes that the "pay it forward" concept will keep going, more to preserve the unique clones and rare plants than to give something away. If only a handful of people are growing a clone that is a bad thing in my mind.

I know this is a bit all over the place but this is not one of my good days and medications do that. It took me over an hour to type this so ignore anything that does not make sense

 

[David F]

I thought as a relative noob I could chime in.

When you're just starting out it's hard to justify spending a ton of money on plants and killing them. I feel that beginners are the ones who benefit most from giveaways.

We've all killed plants, we've all been noobs at some point. I've only done 1 large giveaway, the rest were discrete and off the public record of forums.
It sucks that people have swindled you, and I know at least one person has felt swindled by me in our exchanges.
I've found that giveaways are a lot of work, as much as raising the darn plants sometimes, so I feel you.

However, I don't even know how to become a "green" member. I've briefly looked but I'm still not sure. I've taken advantages of giveaways, but only ones I'm really excited about. Even typical capensis excites me, so I found myself frequently participating in giveaways. The reason I stuck with this hobby is the passion and generosity of the members who make me feel at home.

Even if I feel my posts come off as critical or just straight up weird... People find themselves getting into conversations with me about really random and interesting stuff. I want to give back as much as possible, but for all the noobs out there, I know it's hard to do giveaways, when you yourself don't feel confident in these methods. I encourage you to take things slow if you can. I, like many went too much too fast and ending up loosing plants that would have been healthy and beautiful in some one else's care.

I encourage noobs to also not be too discouraged at failure, but rather inquisitive and be willing to listen to advice.

And a tidbit of my own advice that may or may not be helpful:

Never give up on a CP that is dying. Even if it appears completely dead, there is always a chance (and often a good one) that the plant will restore with new growth in time. I can't emphasize this enough, that plants can die almost completely off and make miraculous recoveries. Don't give up on the noobs you pros, as they are trying not to give up on themselves.

 

[ps3isawesome]

Having giveaways is one of the ways that helps the carnivores plant and terra community grow. After receiving several giveaways I hosted one myself. I also became a green member. I'm new and really appreciate Andrew for building this forum and the members who literally make up this community. I'd do anything to support and help this place grow.

 

[dozer1028]

Finding this thread has really disappointed me. I'm newer to TF. And have done some give away's and won one or two and I really thought our group of plant people were better than that.. . .. I really enjoy doing give aways. And I enjoy winning something new. I really hope people don't ruin this for all of us. On terraforums and on other forums ...

 

[bluemax]

Don't give up on the noobs you pros, as they are trying not to give up on themselves.

I think this is nicely said.

I've come to a point where I wonder if being a newbie grower ever ceases. There are numerous species/genera that I would be as green as anyone attempting to grow and in my past I have killed some of almost everything that I could get my hands on. But I learn and I will likely cause the death of other rare and wonderful plants, though with regret. So in some ways I am always the newbie. It's alright with me.

I am a big fan of Terra Forums and I have found the people here to be some of the most knowledgeable and generous I have ever known. That being said I would urge caution in dealings with others you don't know well. There are certainly some deadbeats out there. We are a world-wide forum open to anyone - something I wouldn't ever want to see change. I can't say I have seen much of an overall change in the make-up of people in the 3 years (has it been only 3 years?) I have been coming here. Trades, conversations, giveaways, even sales are a good way to keep opening the door to new people who have things to offer even if they have never kept a venus flytrap alive successfully. And we all have our quirks and are needing of patience.

'Nuff said.

 

[Dexenthes]

And we all have our quirks and are needing of patience.

'Nuff said.

This, exactly. The carnivorous plant crowd so far as I can tell is one of the most bizarre, diverse and giving/intellectual groups of people I can think of.

 

[Sashoke]

This, exactly. The carnivorous plant crowd so far as I can tell is one of the most bizarre, diverse and giving/intellectual groups of people I can think of.

Well said.

 

[NemJones]

I hate to say it, but when I entered TerraForums it was because of an interest in giveaways. However, after actually searching around the forum
and getting to know people, I feel that this place is a remarkable base of knowledge with many interesting personalities to match.
I found it to be a much more valuable community and information network, and I really like it here. Its a very unique site that nobody will replicate.
I intend to be here for a while and giving away unusual and exotic plants in the future for the community to experience as well, however growing takes
a bit of time and I do feel that Im overdue for a giveaway myself. Many members here have shown me great generosity from an early point, and I would greatly like to
return the same some day. Like many other members said, giveaways do attract other people. Some good, some bad. Generally, most members that take time and actually
stick around here have a great deal of value in the community, no matter who they are. Not all noobs are bad people..

Initially Joining TF, I could tell this site has been around for a good amount of time, and it was apparent that activity has begun to dwindle. Searching
through posts from a year or two ago, it seems that many more members were around, very friendly and helpful to all. Warm and welcoming.
However.. now it seems the community is quite a bit smaller and is more divided. Its extremely petty to have arguments over the internet and hold a grudge. I think we should embrace each others input and thought, as there is not only one way to do everything. An array of info is what leads to new discoveries and processes. We're all here to learn and help each other in a wonderful hobby. Not to make it more difficult and unfriendly.

Internet sites have their depressions and their peaks. I have wandered the internet for many years, and I enjoy talking with members, hence why I sit in the chatbox. Ive watched many a great site become corrupt and shut down because of communities
falling apart in activity depressions. The important thing is to embrace each other and try your best to get through it, because it can come back but it depends on the current members ..like seeds to a new generation. Given proper care and good choices, Terraforums will bloom again.

 

[pearldiver]

I too have no plans to stop giveaways. I enjoy the feeling of giving without condition and receiving someone's else's gratitude and enthusiasm. From time to time, I enjoy having that same feeling in reverse. And I greatly appreciate all of those folks here who have given me plants to get started, and those who have traded with me (and continue to do so) along the way. You know who you are, take a virtual bow or give yourself a figurative pat on the back. I really appreciate it. If there is a hiccup or two now and again, so be it.

 

[Whimgrinder]

It seems this discussion is somewhat falling prey to generalizations and a tendency to shift stated examples towards a less granular state. To that end I would like to refine some things I have said and think:

- I have not approached plant/seed donations with grand expectations - I give away spare materials with the hope that people will use the donation to learn from, and many recipients will make mistakes and not all donated materials will survive to become prime specimens, I realize that and that is acceptable. My goal is to share what I can and give people an opportunity to learn how to care for specific plants without feeling any pressure and without the outlay of outrageous sums of money.

- If I have decided over time to place conditions on my giveaways - restricting donations more to friends and people I have evaluated as "more likely to succeed" and/or requiring the recipient give something back to the community (pay-it-forward), its because I have all too often had a recipient show an attitude of entitlement - or worse - express ingratitude for a plant I have given completely free of charge. Thats right - I have actually had TF members contact me after receiving a gift plant solely to complain to me about how I packaged the plant, how small it was, how I didn't ship it with soil, etc, etc. To be specific: I've received a number of messages from recipients which in one form or another express how the gift did not meet their expectations!

- If I had to cite a reason for my dissatisfaction with the giveaway process, it is for this kind of rudeness alone. Its not because I expect every recipient to instantly become a masterful horticulturist or some other outrageous expectations, its because of the occasional display of grotesque entitlement and rudeness. Its the One Bad Apple Syndrome. If you cannot at least say "thank you", then you will never, ever receive a gift plant from me again. Its that simple.

If I have any expectations of this community at all, it is simply this: learn how to be appreciative when someone gives you something for free, and express that gratitude. Nobody is entitled to anything here - its only going to succeed as a community if participants play nice, respect each other, and learn how to apply basic good manners to their interactions with others. There is no slight or offense I have ever been exposed to that could not be salved by the simplest expression of appreciation in the form of these two words: "thank you".

 

[Jcal]

100% agree with the post above. and this thread is taking a weird twist. my intentions were not to cast a cloud over the community or to swear off supporting the community. For those that have traded with me already know, I am very generous with my plants. I will give almost anything away that I have extra. I have sent plants to people even if they hint at wanting it in their colletion, without looking for anything in return. I dont understand the concept of a fair trade. If I have a box going out it make it worth the trip to the post office.

its not "giving" that has because the issue. Its the "receiving" party....

If your grateful and dont steal from me I have no issues. I dont see a problem with that kind of thinking.

Alas, my rant is over and I am sure I will be hosting another giveaway, and many more in the future. If this thread does anything at all I hope it makes people aware that simple respectable gestures goes a long way.

 

[Dexenthes]

I totally hear your guys' points.

For whatever reason I am lucky enough to have never been confronted with such rudeness! Maybe its because my collection and the plants I have given away have always been kind of modest.

Either way, I think this thread is a great discussion. It's one of the better humanistic conversations about this forum/hobby that I have seen in a long time. I am confident that a certain segment of the "receivers" will see this thread, hear everyone's points and we can hope that they will change their behavior for the better.

 

[David F]

I see where you guys are coming from. If you are not ecstatic to receive or care for plants mentioned in a giveaway, you should probably not participate. Give someone who cares a chance lol.

When I receive a giveaway I usually post the arrival in the original thread and let everyone know how awesome the person who gave it to me is! Pay forward the forwarded.

 

[jwalker]

As a mostly now member to this form and hobby I seen this coming and have stopped signing Up for give a ways my collection is small with nothing to give back so I started to feel like a mooch so I'm just buying plants now that way everyone gets something. And as far as not contribute it's a little intimidating to newbies to post are small sometimes sick plants but some of us do try. I've learned more from this site then any other that's y I read more then post that's my 2 cents

 

[RSS]

As a mostly now member to this form and hobby I seen this coming and have stopped signing Up for give a ways my collection is small with nothing to give back so I started to feel like a mooch so I'm just buying plants now that way everyone gets something. And as far as not contribute it's a little intimidating to newbies to post are small sometimes sick plants but some of us do try. I've learned more from this site then any other that's y I read more then post that's my 2 cents

Completely off topic but something the newer people may not be aware of, if you simply left click the username on the left of a post and click the "View Forums Post" option it is really easy to sort of the moochers from the newbies. Do they have an introduction thread? (I never made one ) There are lots of threads about how you are growing your plants, a great place to showcase your small collection or ask a few questions. Contributing can be as simple as asking a question, you have to remember all those lurkers out there reading these forums and not posting they also benifit from questions. Just please do a search before asking, answering the same question 4-5 times a month gets old.

Sign up for the newbie type giveaways, that is why they are there. It is expected for the newer people to have nothing to give back for a few years.

 

[Carnivoregon]

I'm new to the forum, but really enjoy it so far. I just won a beginner giveaway from Cthulhu138 and am stoked. Looking forward to when my plants get big enough to cut up and pay it forward.