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Thread: water notes

  1. #9
    An orchid fancier with a CP problem chibae's Avatar
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    May 2010
    mid-Atlantic coast, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lechenaultia View Post
    Dear Andrew-san,
    Dear Jpappy789-san,


    Thank you very much for your reply.

    In many parts of Japan, tap water comes from rivers and is soft water and high quality. Unfortunately, in my area, tap water is a mixture of well water and river water. The water quality of the two wells on the farmland I can use is terribly bad, and the EC of the better one is EC (mS / cm) = 0.4. I once considered rainwater use, but inflexible laws have prevented me from making a decent pool to collect water on farmland. All I need is a 150 to 300 tons covered pool. In this country, water rates are considerably lower than in the United States (probably), so I considered using tap water. However, the mixed water from river supplied from K city and well water from K town pumping 400 meters below the ground was previously EC (mS / cm) = 0.4. After K town was merged into K city, the EC (mS / cm) dropped to 0.25. It is speculation that the mixing ratio has changed. I use this tap water now.

    EC (mS / cm) of the well in my farmland I mentioned earlier is of 0.4, the main problems with this water are bicarbonate ions and iron. Iron removal is a bit easier, but excess bicarbonate is troublesome. The pumped well water gradually becomes alkaline by contacting the atmosphere.
    However, with this well water, tropical Byblis grew without problems, although I put charcoal (made from rice seed husk) in the bottom of the pot.
    Please go to:

    Distilled water, RO water or extreme high quality river water, etc., can cause a bit of trouble in solution culture (nutriculture) or hydroponics. I think some members of this forum do Tissue Culture. I think many of them have the same experience. In Japan, this is a phenomenon often called "pH jump". When adjusting the pH of nutrient solution, at some point, the pH changes suddenly and dramatically, even though we are adding small amounts of acid or alkali substance. I use NaOH (or HCl) for TC and orthophosphoric acid for solution culture. Earlier I wrote that excess bicarbonate ion causes problems, but traces of bicarbonate ion act like a buffer and make pH adjustment easier.

    Reverence for your style.

    Kind regards from the Far East
    I read about the Ph jump years ago when I first started raising orchids. It was recommended that to avoid it, only use fertilizers in RO or distilled water that were made specifically for them.
    It's a tough life being a Sarracenia farmer
    My Grow List

  2. #10
    Lechenaultia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibae View Post
    I read about the Ph jump years ago when I first started raising orchids. It was recommended that to avoid it, only use fertilizers in RO or distilled water that were made specifically for them.
    Dear Chibae-san,


    I have little experience in orchid growing and do not know the fertilizer you use. So I can say nothing.

    I wrote, "Excess bicarbonate causes problems." The better well water that I can use contains 189PPM bicarbonate. This is the result of analysis by a decent water testing company. That's a terribly bad number. Normally, this is the number at which growers give up solution culture (nutriculture) or hydroponics. Some of the fertilizer components become insoluble precipitates, it causes physiological disorders such as nutrient deficiency symptoms in tomato plants. It is difficult to adjust the pH below 6.5 even with a large amount of orthophosphoric acid. Although not impossible.
    In general, as the amount of impurities (especially bicarbonate ion) increases, the fluctuations during pH adjustment become more moderate.

    I did TC for the first time 41 (or42) years ago. The purpose was to observe carrot dedifferentiation and regeneration (redifferentiation). I remember being excited because I was already very interested in TC at that time. At the same time, this was the very first time I experienced a pH jump. I reckon the medium was White (1963), not MS.

    Many years ago, when I was employed by a seed company, I visited a tomato farmer in Nagano Prefecture (he just started solution culture). In very mountainous place. The water he used was from a river and EC (mS / cm) = 0.03. The water quality was quite good for hydroponics. For the first time, I experienced a pH jump in solution culture. By the way, 80% of the broccoli consumed in the United States at the time was produced from F1 hybrids seeds made by that seed company.

    Kind regards from the Far East

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