George W bush...

[trashcan]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (<>-{VIRUS}-<>They @ Aug. 23 2002,6:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When will people learn, democracy doesnt work.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well along time ago America decided that democracy was not "working anymore" and changed to a republic democracy. This means that someone represents other people, and that every person votes to elect officials, but obviously the entire US population cannot sit on Capitol Hill and vote on every law. So we have representatives. And yes democracy does work quite well, as do many forms of government, but I think democracies and republic democracies do the best (in my opinion of course) of representing and attempting to be a manifestation of the people's will. So. What do you think besides "democracy sucks" ?

 

[<>-{VIRUS}-<>They]

I was just kidding. I believe that democracy is the best for of gavernment to keep a country stable with a fair rate of growth. I was just commenting on yall arguing over logging. Not everyone is going to be happy with another persons ideas. As for logging, it is a needed part of our economy and we cant just stop. Although it is greatly destroying our enviroment. For our economy to grow we need more logging. 180,000 acres isnt as much as you might think it is and I agree with Bush. If they are fire prone then I say cut them down. They might not burn this year or the next or the next, but while people are waiting to see whether they are going to burn then the trees can be put to use. Bush doesnt have to be to awful smart to do his job. He is given a couple options, all of which are ok to a certain extent and he picks one to support. I do feel that there is a better way, but I think for the momment logging is going to have to do.

 

[jack]

Unfortunitly bush is just blowing smoke

. There is not much he can do ( or even cares to do). There is so much litigation involving logging that nothing will be settled for a while. My opinion, some logging is beneficial, it opens up meadows where wildlife live. I just wish they would leave what old growth we have left alone. On a sad note, the biscuit fire in S.W. Oregon was Darlingtonia habitat, I have herd little on this subject but I'm sure many plants were destroyed as well.
Jack

 

[BigCarnivourKid]

Many CPs benefit from having their habitat burned periodically to keep the brush, trees, and grasses down so the can get more light.
The fire in S.W. Oregon could help CPs by burning back the brush, trees, and grasses that would otherwise shade them out.  While most of the plants will suffer damage to the leaves and parts above ground, the seeds, rhizomes and growth points that are close to or slightly beneath the surface usually come through unharmed.

 

[jack]

what im afraid of is this fire was so hot that they wont survive, but I'll cross my fingers.
Jack

 

[Plantdoctor]

Listen up, when people say bush isnt the smartest, and he acts strange, think of what hes been through. How do you think you would hold up? After 1 year of being president and terrorists come and invade and he has to make life threating decisions and stuff, and his army dies, people he knows die. THe trade center is bombed. I say hes been through tons of crud, and i agree with whatever he does. Poor guy. Think, he proably got no sleep during the first few weeks of the trade center incident.

 

[dfalkanger]

Sure he has been through some tough times, but why would you "promote" logging of ancient forests, or any forest for that reason. Of course their has to be some cutting for wood, but I don't think that promoting it is the best thing to do. I am not for or against Bush but I do think it is wrong to promote something like this.

 

[Guest]

despite the tragic events of 9/11....Bush has been blessed with this.

He would otherwise be messing up taxes, Social Security, the environment, other governments, role back R vs W, and turn the clock on our country back 400 years.

Now all he has to do is talk about blowing up someone who may or may not have been involved with crashing our planes and killing many innocent lives.

Anyone would have a 'high rating' for striking back at someone that hurt our country. That is a given.

But what about the other issues:

Like the logging. It isn't the trees. It is the growth beneath it that is the problem. That is what fuels the fires that are breaking out all over our country.

Here in Texas ( East Texas ) they have controled burns to help out the CP's and other bog plants. Without it, all CP's in Texas would probably not exist.

Think about it...

So you kill a few plants. But you have all that seed that will grow now that the land is clear and the sun is shinning through. What if there was no sun? And nothing but brush and dead sticks lie on the ground. No plants can grow.

You can cut down all the tress you want. But if you continue to have all the grass and dead debris lying around....fires will burn the trees ( and everything else in its path ).
====

Democracy will work. You just have to vote the idiots off the island.

We all know what happened with the last election. It was only a few votes that made the new president. So if everyone voted, things could have changed.

I know that most people think it is a pick of the 'lesser of the 2 evils' THEN PICK ONE!

Don't sit at home and then complain about how crappy things have gone if you didn't vote.

We all know now that it is important to vote. YOUR VOTE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!

If all the people that felt the same way voted...we would be much better.

If you look at other countries, it is mandatory to vote. You can get fined if you don't. It is your right, yet many people just won't do it.

You can write in Mickey Mouse...but you voted

 

[Travis]

It stinks that we need to play the role of Mother Nature...Logging, controlled fires, helping endangered species, etc. You know every time humans play that role it seems like we screw up. I doubt this is Bushy’s fault, it is years and years of letting the forest grow without having forest fires do there job (Ok maybe a few controlled burns but they are soon put out by "humans").

In Australia it is required that you vote. In Canada they let the forest fires burn (from what I last knew). Voting is a privilege even if the entire runner ups stink for president. I also think the press needs to stay out of the Presidents personal life. I do not care.

travis

 

[RamPuppy]

You know... I have re-written my response to this thread about 3 or 4 times now... cause each time I think my replies have been to offensive.. (and about ten pages long.)

On Logging:

I like George, not just because he's a Texan, but because he's done stupid things like all of us, and still risen to a position of power. I like the fact that there is someone in office who probably understands that I think it's important for John Q. to have a job and a home. Forests are a repleneshible resource, and the logging companies do a pretty good job of taking care of the forests they own, GW is a opportunistic environmentalist, if he sees a way to save something, he will try, but he won't do it at the expense of jobs and livelyhood... in some cases that is bad, in some cases it's good. But one thing EVERYONE in the world needs to learn, is you can't be 100% of anything all the time, he's got quite an act to balance, and I for one, am pretty proud of the way he is doing it. (So in short, you can not like my president, but don't insult him.)

On 'The Bomb':

I would make the case we are lucky to have the bomb. I for one, am probably alive because of it. I would hate to think what would have happened if the bomb didn't exist, and my grandfather was called forth to storm Japan, he probably would have died along with another 2 million americans and japanese. The bomb actually saved a lot of people by being employed in WW2, and it is probably the last beneficial implementation we will ever see of it. (except maybe Orion Boosters) (And of course if Japan had surrendered, it would have been better.)

Furthermore... can you imagine what would have happened with Korea? Or Vietnam? Those were titanic struggles over the future of entire COUNTRIES, WW1 was started over the death of one man. The bomb kept those wars, from spilling over, it kept other wars from starting. Ask any Russian, or a military historian what would have happend to an allied coalition in eastern Europe making war on russia? (Can you say MEAT GRINDER) Was your father healthy? if he is/was, he probably would have gone into something like that... be grateful they exist, they probably prevented more wars than they were used in.

On Clinton/Gore:

HO hum... yes, I am a died in the wool conservative, though, I don't know that i would call myself a republican, even though I am registered as one... (I am not dumb enough to believe any other conservative party has a snowballs chance of winning an election). So straight away, I have issues with Clinton and Gore on their politics.. but that is not why I don't like them...

Under them, Our military reached all time lows in strength estimates... I know a tanker who was forced to get out and 'walk in formation' with his co-horts and other tankers because they couldn't afford the fuel to do exercises. Why? Because more is being asked of our military on less of a budget, hey, slash it, then make them do more simultaneous deployments all over the world than they have done since the last major war. (That takes smarts. Right up there with inventing the internet.)

Our intelligence branches were truncated, what would have happened last year if we had human assets out there working where before there were none? maybe this would have been caught, maybe we would have ended this back with the USS Cole bombing, or even before that... of course, we'll never know...

Finally, IMHO (And I am not trying to offend anyone here, so let me apologize in advance) Bill Clinton for sure, and AL Gore to a lesser degree, did not carry their public persona, or their oath of office with the honor and dignity that it deserved. Bill had his daliances, multiple scandals, so did hillary (travel Gate) Al has the internet, Occidental Petroleum (why has there not been an investigation into THEM&#33

I personally don't care that Bill did what he did, but not fessing up, and letting it end in a timely manner was just like a kid trying to get away with stealing from the cookie jar even with chocolate smeared all over his face. What Al Gore did with Occidental Petroleum was insider trading, and just plain illegal, and I have huge issues with that...

Not only that... I got to ask, where would we be right now with Al Gore in office... I would not have nearly as much faith in my security as I have with George...

Democrats are great in times of peace... there is a balance that exists... but as many have said in these times... in war, you need a republican.

That is the end of my rant...

 

[carnivorous23]

Rampuppy - What I really hate is that every discussion of the Republicans doing bad reverts to that the democrats are worse, and the same when the democrats are criticized.
Neither one is doing much of anything anymore, they just use different campaign promises.

Personally, I am for reducing military spending, but I only support it if it is done correctly (cutting what is useless, not what we need) but that won't happen.
The system does need updating, or maybe a decent third party.
Of course, so many people say the solution is to go out and vote, but who is there to vote for?

"I never vote, it only encourages them" - Kerry Thornley

 

[trashcan]

Does anyone else feel like they are not represented by the governement AT ALL? One bit? I guess its possibly mviews are so skewed too far from normal...

I believe in woman's choice for abortion. I'm not pro-life, or pro-choice, I'm pro-personal-rights.

I don't believe in the death sentence.

I believe that the government is excessive, and cannot do anything on a budget properly. There has to be a happy medium between underfunded and wasteful.

The pro-personal rights thing. My rights end where yours begin. That's it! If something doesn't negatively affect someone else, I can do WHATEVER I want. I think that's fair. If I want to risk my own life, I think that's a fair choice for me to make. If I want to skate around town without a helmet, that's my danger (and choice). Does that make sense? A better analogy, I can smoke all the cigarettes I want in my house, becaause it only harms me. But if smoke in a restauraunt, there is a proven possilbility that I will harm others (second hand smoke). So I'm for smoking, but not in public!

Seperation of church and state. Hallelujah! I couldn't wish it would happen any more. It is completely unfair to anyone to have church pushed on them in the state, or for either to wield influence over the other.

Hmm..
OK: So which party represents me best?

I don't fit too well in Rep, or Dem, so what's left? Green and Libertarians.. I think Libertarians have simliar view on pro-personal-rights..

Maybe I should just run for office myself..

I promise to protect the CPs! Will anyone on Petflytrap vote for me?

 

[CPSINC]

i wont write a long message il just state my simple thoughts on this.


tree's give us oxygen/without tree's there would be no oxygen.thus logging does not make sense to me.

also i love tree's

 

[Travis]

Here is an e-mail I recieved. This is way to much stuff to type - you may enjoy it if not O' well another bad post: hehehehe

This is your August history lesson. Please pay attention!!

What happens when a president gets elected in a year with a "0" (zero) at
the end? Also notice it goes in increments of 20 years. Where it lands!

1840: William Henry Harison (Died in Office)
1860: Abaraham Lincoln (Assassinated)
1880: James A. Garfield (Assassinated)
1900: William McKinley (Assassinated)
1920: Warren G. Harding (Died in Office)
1940: Franklin D. Roosevelt (Died in Office)
1960: John F. Kennedy (Assassinated)
1980: Ronald Reagan (Survived Assassination Attempt)
2000: (?

?)

And to think that we had 2 guys duking it out in the courts to be the one
elected in 2000.

You might be interested in this next part. Have a history teacher explain
this ---If they can.

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

Both were particularly concerned concerned with civil rights.
Both wives lost their children while living in the White House.

Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.
Both Presidents were shot in the head.

Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.

Both were assassinated by Southerners.
Both were succeeded by Southerners named Johnson.

Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.

Both assassins were known by their three names.
Both names are composed of fifteen letters.

Lincoln was shot at the theater named 'Ford'.
Kennedy was shot in a car called a 'Lincoln' made by Ford.

Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse.
Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.

Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials!
And here's the kicker:

A week before Lincoln was shot, he was in Monroe, Maryland.
A week before Kennedy was shot, he was with Marilyn Monroe.

Creepy, huh?

 

[RamPuppy]

cp23, that's politics for you.

Our system was never meant to be dominated by 2 parties, its just how it ended up, it's unfortunate, but it is where we are now. There is a continual shift however back in the 50's, democrats were more like republicans republicans were more like well... the Christian Coalition.

yiee...

well let me say this, I am a very modern conservative, I am big on personal rights, like your right to choose how and where you want to live your life, and I agree that your rights start where mine begin, but the problem with that mindset (and please understand I am not trying to insult or offend ANYONE) is that it's all about you. You know the famous saying "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" Americans are moving to far towards the mind set of what they can get out of government.

Our Federal Government was intended to be small, to police trade, control a unified military, and so on, it wasn't meant to 'rule the land' that is why we have state governments.

I think I am going to apologize in advance for offending anyone... and back off this subject... it's political, and in almost every forum on the net except polititical ones, politics is taboo, for good cause... while I think we are capable of not blowing up into an argument, I dont want you to think less of me for my views, and vice versa... this topic just has to much potential to get ugly... so I will check up on it, but I THINK this is my last contribution towards it.

 

[PlantAKiss]

My 2-cents: Logging isn't done for the benefit of the forests no matter what Bush says...its done for PROFITS. Nature's fires or controlled burns done properly can be beneficial to our lands. But logging? Clear cutting? Its all about making a buck and to H with the environment.

Just remember...you must have TREES to have RAIN. No trees...no rain. Deserts...few trees, little rain. Rain forests...dense vegetation, lots of rain. If we keep chopping down the trees and vegetation, we will change weather patterns and alter the environment.

Sadly, in many countries, it is poverty that drives the stripping of the land. To expect the people in poverty-stricken, jobless areas to put environmental causes before putting a meager meal on a table to feed their hungry family is not realistic. It is easy to be angered by the logging in the rain forests when we can drive to Applebees for a good steak dinner. Here in America, we log for money...in other countries the people log for basic survival.

It is hard to find a balance to satisfy both environmentalists and businesses that provide jobs. And as the population grows, its only going to get worse. I just hope people can look to the future and consider what will be left of Mother Nature and our earth for our children and their children. It isn't just about NOW...its about what will be around for the future.

Look around you...and be thankful for the gifts we have now from Mother Nature. And hope it will still be here for generations to come.

Suzanne

 

[alandallas]

I took a trip to the Big Thicket Reserve in S.E. Texas last May. I saw the results of controlled burns. The S. alatas, the D. capillarris, Pings and Bladderworts were growing like crazy because they didn't have to compete with so many weeds. Whenever I figure out how to attach a picture to a post I'll send a pic.

 

[Stefano1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Plantdoctor @ Aug. 25 2002,10:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Listen up, when people say bush isnt the smartest, and he acts strange, think of what hes been through. How do you think you would hold up? After 1 year of being president and terrorists come and invade and he has to make life threating decisions and stuff, and his army dies, people he knows die. THe trade center is bombed. I say hes been through tons of crud, and i agree with whatever he does. Poor guy. Think, he proably got no sleep during the first few weeks of the trade center incident.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
you know now i am starting to think that bin ladin did it cus he doisnt like bush