[b said:
Quote[/b] (rubrarubra @ April 02 2004,3:50)]
That's my point. Your church has decided for itself what is right and what isn't. Not everybody agrees that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.
Sigh...
Peter, I think that is your worst argument yet. You must be getting frustrated. I apologize if I have seemed rude or offensive. Frankly, that last point to your argument which I quoted above is unquestionably ridiculous.
No, not everyone agrees with the Book of Mormon. My church does. Of course we decided that for OURSELVES. haha,
Who IS supposed to decide that for us?
I think everyone on this forum has decided for themselves what is right what isn't and they are not one bit wrong for it! Everyone has their own idea of what is right and what isn't. Don't know why my Church is any different.
Now about Acts 3: 19-21. Here is the King James Version of the text:
19 ¶ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive
until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
(New Testament | Acts 3:19 - 21)
I am not sure what you want me to debate about. You quoted a different scripture from Paul not Acts in your last point and I didn't know what about Acts you found odd. From the text I have
bolded, you will see parts in that scripture where it discusses a "refreshing" or a "restitution." It isn't the only scripture discussing the matter of a time of restitution but Mormon.org only used that one apparently to support our belief in a need for a restoration of the Church the Apostles began.
My Church firmly believes alot had been lost from the time of Christ to the time of Nicaea. Mainly the Authority to lead The Church. Unlike you, Peter, I believe the church began by the Apostles had MUCH more organization than you think. It was a REAL organization with Leaders and Pastors and Bishops, etc. whom all reported to the Head of the Church Peter, the Apostle whom Christ chose:
13 ¶ And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,
15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphæus, and Simon called Zelotes,
16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
(New Testament | Luke 6:13 - 16)
Christ chose twelve of His
disciples who followed Him, and ordained them to the calling of an
Apostle by the end of Christ's mortal ministry. After Judas Iscariot fell to suicide, the Apostles felt it IMPORTANT to fill his spot and choose another so that the Apostle's would remain the number of twelve:
24 And
they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this
ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and
the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
(New Testament | Acts 1:24 - 26)
This act of the Apostle's was VERY organized and was done through revelation given through prayer. Matthias was numbered among the 11 and became part of the Ministry and Apostleship. This was a very important detail, which the orginal 12 Apostles respected. No doubt Christ Himself taught them that if one of the Twelve was to die, they needed to pray and find out who Christ had appointed as a successor. Not to a powerful position, no, simply a position of Divine duty to preach the resurrection and Gospel of Jesus Christ. It wasn't decided upon using politics. But, the decision was made through prayer.
The Apostles had the authority given of them to preach the Gospel. But, that was the same mission of the seventy Christ had chosen. Also was it a commandment of all the Saints, to spread the word of Christ. However, the Apostles had a SPECIAL AUTHORITY. This authority was to bless in the name of Christ. Work miracles. These blessings was also the manner in which one received the Holy Ghost after baptism. In these following versus, Phillip teaches and baptizes a group in Samaria. However, he must not have the authority to give the Holy Ghost only to Baptize. The Apostles heard of these new converts in Samaria and sent Peter and John to "lay their hands upon them" and bestow upon them the Gift of the Holy Ghost:
But
when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14 Now
when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who,
when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that
through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
(New Testament | Acts 8:12 - 18)
Their calling was given MORE authority to act in the name of God than other calling in the Church. Paul speaks of this calling that he was also later on called and ordained to by Christ himself:
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are
built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
(New Testament | Ephesians 2:19 - 20)
Jesus Christ was and IS the Chief cornerstone. By the time of the Nicaean Creed there was no foundation of Apostles and Prophets. Only Bishops of the many branches of the Church on part of the world. Constantine called together those Bishops for the decision on the Creed.
Had there been Apostles or Prophets he would have called on them to gather to Nicaea. But there weren't. Because the Apostles were gone many simple truths were lost. It is sad. But, thanks be to God. Because in our day He has
begun the "refreshing" and "restoring" of these truths to us."
As prophecied the foundation of Christ's Church has been rebuilt and is now in existence. I don't expect any of you to believe my firm conviction, but there are men who are the 12 Apostles today and there are Prophets in our day!
The foundation has been rebuilt! I testify of that! It began one spring morning in 1820 when God, The Father, and Jesus Christ both in body and person condescended to a young humble boy in Palmyra, New York. Christ Himself prepared men, began, founded, and rebuilt the foundation of His Church in our days! Upon Apostles and Prophets it was founded with He Himself as the Chief Cornerstone. That is my witness, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.