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Alternative to bush and kerry!

  • #41
Corruption is rampant in our government. We have congress members in there who are entrenched 25 years or more. C'mon people let's all start voting them out. Does it make you mad to see the biggest buisness in the world(our goverment) squandering our money and personal liberties? Remember the 60's ? Big brother is alive and well, but he wasn't watching 9/11. Why do we need a new department of homeland security when all of the other departments should have been doing their jobs prior to 9/11? Politics? Me thinks so. Why do drug enforcement officers allow small shipments to pass through and wait for that one "big bust" while people are dying and becoming addicted? You guessed it, it's a game too, played for money. We all need a healthy cynicism of politics. In Roman times, whenever the senate wanted to secretly pass legislation they would "entertain" the people (as a diversion) with a big sporting event(gladiators?). Now days we have all kinds of entertainment to keep us occupied and we are also dealt alot of misinformation regardless where you acquire your news. The two party system is broken.
 
  • #42
I wanna get into politics when i get older, but there's a lot more work that goes on behind the scenes then anyone can imagine unless they have been there.
 
  • #43
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]A successful country is because they have the Natural rescourses to keep the economy going, why else do you think that our countries so sucessful?  Would we be so well off if our country was in the middle of Africa or something?

Um, newsflash, the us imports over 70% of its oil and most other natural resources. That is why the prices are so expensive at the pump, because Opec quite litterally sets the price of oil. When it starts to drop, they cut production to artificially inflate the price. If some dumb lookin Caribeu in alaska has to move to a different freakin glacier so that I can get some cheaper oil, so be it.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]  I mainly hate him because of the war and what he has done to our economy.

That really is a mis-informed statement. Bush stepped in at the start of a recession. Then 9/11 occured and dug us much deeper. Then Bush is starting to catch all of these crooked CEO's that Clinton allowed to lie and artificially inflate there earnings. Those are the reasons the economy was doing bad, which if you havn't noticed, is getting much better.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Clinton know what's good for the country, and doesn't just start a war when a econmy is at it's worst

YOUR KIDDING ME RIGHT? He went into Bosnia to cover up a scandal. Which the then lied about and was impeached for. Its funny how you bash one guy for being a "liar" yet praise another who was proven to be a liar and a cheater. By the way, care to do the research and find out how many US soldiers died in Somallia, Bosnia and all the other conflicts under Clintons erra?
 
  • #44
"That really is a mis-informed statement. Bush stepped in at the start of a recession. Then 9/11 occured and dug us much deeper. Then Bush is starting to catch all of these crooked CEO's that Clinton allowed to lie and artificially inflate there earnings. Those are the reasons the economy was doing bad, which if you havn't noticed, is getting much better."

Then how come Bush cancelled the court case where they tried to break the Microsoft coporation because it was becoming a Monopoly?  Clinton was almost about to win, then Bush came in and cancelled the Court Case and Now Microsoft is still a type of Monopoly.
 
  • #45
Currently the federals are going to cut the endangerd species act's  funding by 7 milion (and make it so you can build on species last strongholds)  and there are bills in the works thet will prevent the EPA from prosecuting violators of the clean air and water acts.  Oh did i mention Industry hierd lawers are going to try and convince the supreme court that the clean air and water acts are unconstitutional?

ANYONE who would do that would have my intense dislike. It just haooens to be the bush administration

*edidt*

Happens not haoowns haoooooooo

haoooooooweeeennnnsssssssssss
 
  • #46
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Then how come Bush cancelled the court case where they tried to break the Microsoft coporation because it was becoming a Monopoly? Clinton was almost about to win, then Bush came in and cancelled the Court Case and Now Microsoft is still a type of Monopoly.

Exactly how are they a monopoly? There are other alternatives to every piece of software that microsoft offers. Because they bundle FREE media players with there OS they are a monopoly? Because they are very good at selling OS's they are a monopoly? I am sorry, but anyone who is savy enough to d/l a new media player or i-net browser does have to adhere to this "monopoly". On the other hand, I sure don't want my grandma to call me when she buys a new computer because saying she can't get on the net because Windows didn't come bundled with a browser. Do they have some un-ethical practices? Yes, but let me tell ya, thats business, plain and simple.
 
  • #47
Back onto the track of USA politics...

I see two problems with the USA political system;
1, non compulsory voting
2, no preferential system

People are dishartened by polotics and the people it effects the worst are the most dishartened. When dishartened people don't go to the polls, you need to force them. If you do not make everybody get up and have a say you cannot have a truely representitive election. This also gives to much power to preasure groups who convince thier members to get out and vote (eg. NRA), this makes a mockery of the one person one vote idea. I read the statistics of the voter turnout in the US once and was horrified.

You must have a preferential* voting system where if the person you vote for does not get in your vote is not thrown away. This way people vote for who they believe in even if there is no chance of them getting into power. This gives even the minor parties some political weight.

*Voter ranks all cadidates from 1(prefered) down till all candidates are numbered. Candidates are then canceled one at a time by the least votes and the thier votes are redistributed according to the next candidate listed on the ballot paper, this means when it comes down to the last 2 candidates EVERYBODYS vote still counts.

As for Iraq, I like Fatboy's analogy of a husband and wife. I think this fits beter with the scenario...

Bloke (we will call him Bob for this senario) sees really hot woman (we will call her Mary) and thinks I can make some money out of her. Kidnaps Mary and rents her out to an abusive customer (who we will call Bill), who pays for the use of her to do what ever he wants. Bill stops paying for her use, so Bob gets anoyed and sends the heavies round and rough him up to remind him who's boss. He still doesn't cough up the dough so Bob goes round and kicks the stuffing out of him and says "How dare you treat this poor defenseless woman like that you evil person!".

Any ides who,
Bob is?
Mary is?
The customer is?
What do you think Mary thinks of Bob?

George
 
  • #48
*says something in a slightly shrill voice but decides not to repeat it*
 
  • #49
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]That really is a mis-informed statement. Bush stepped in at the start of a recession. Then 9/11 occured and dug us much deeper. Then Bush is starting to catch all of these crooked CEO's that Clinton allowed to lie and artificially inflate there earnings. Those are the reasons the economy was doing bad, which if you havn't noticed, is getting much better.


Now, this is funny. Yes, Bush is the savior of the economy. When it starts its cycle down because greedy Americans have tried to become millionaires on a stock bubble and the "new" products of the 90's have saturated the market, Shrub pushes and gets passed 2 tax givaways to take from the less well-off and to further enrich the very well-off. Wow, that is the way to create a fair and just society. Why didn't that fool Clinton ever think of that. Just let those least in need KEEP MORE! I mean they are the best, they believe in God, they take all the risk, they're the "right" kind of people, they have to pay so much more in taxes when they buy $20 million dollar homes, #10 million yachts, that 6th car, that 4th home, that rare wine, those 10 servants, those designer clothes and of course they need $5 million a month to live on when they retire. Yes, when a recession starts, when you decide to go it alone and fight a war you hyped, when you want to funnel money into the military industrial complex for Mars, the Moon and space weapons -- by all means cut taxes on the rich. He should have closed tax loopholes on corporations and raised the tax % on the wealthy. Wasn't that % like 90% on the very wealthiest back in the 1950's and early 1960's when the economy was booming!?
States are having to cut services. We are the laughing stock of the western industrialized world.
Saddem was no threat to us. He was contained. Besides, most of the "we must get Saddem" guys around Shrub were all toasting Saddem at his table when Saddem was at his worst in the early 80's under that other horrible President and truly a bad B movie actor -- Reagan. TALK ABOUT FLIP FLOPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you want to get dictators -- which is not really our business -- but if you do, try Iran, North Korea, China and Zimbabwe for starters. We might also look at the Saudi royal family but then they are in bed with the Bush family. No wonder Bush allowed all of bin Laden's family to fly out of the USA the day after 9/11. Ever notice that the Democrats fought the big wars -- WWI (Pres. Wilson), WWII (FDR), Korea (Truman) and Vietnam (LBJ). The Repubs fought Grenada (Reagan) Panama(Bush) Iraq Act I (Bush) Afganistan unfinished (Shrub) and now Iraq Act II unfinished (Shrub). Gee, I think I will trust the Democrats to fight the big wars and truly protect my security.
Absolute rear-end kicking is for fantasy filled video games and B movies. War is for adults who are not on a personal crusade and imagine they are chosen by God. Hopefully, God and certainly Jesus would only choose peace -- at least that's how I understand them. I missed the "war is ok" chapter and "giving to the rich is ok" chapter of the Good Book.

Bobby
 
  • #50
There's one thing I don't understand. How people can be so one sided. There is a song by the band Anthrax that says "I don't see in black and white, I see things in wrong and right" . How come most of the people here can only see one side of the argument? Either republican or democrat. If your party does something, no matter how wrong it is you will defend it and say it was the right thing to do. On the other hand the other party can do nothing right, and every bad thing is blamed on them. There are crooked politicans in both parties. Both parties are going to vote which ever way that will make their own pockets heavier.
Why can't we look beyond democrat/republican and vote for the best man for the job. I'm glad that I'm a independant and I'm free to vote for who ever I feel will do the best job.
 
  • #51
well I'm Republican b/c i believe in what Republicans do. Of course my party makes mistakes. I truly believe my party is not good with the economy but I do believe we have the best interest at hand. I do believe democrats and republicans have strengths and weaknesses. I must say this I will defend my party!!!!
 
  • #52
I can understand and respect your views. What you said makes alot of sense. But I'd like to know what are the beliefs and views that you agree with the rep. and disagree with dem. I'm a independent becuse I think that both dems. and reps. are bought out by special intrest groups and they will vote for anybody who will line their pockets.
One of the most important issues this year in my opinion is healthcare. It's a broke system and it needs fixed. Kerry has made that a priority.
 
  • #53
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Just let those least in need KEEP MORE! I mean they are the best, they believe in God, they take all the risk, they're the "right" kind of people, they have to pay so much more in taxes when they buy $20 million dollar homes, #10 million yachts, that 6th car, that 4th home, that rare wine, those 10 servants, those designer clothes and of course they need $5 million a month to live on when they retire.

Everyone got a tax cut. Not just the rich. If you don't like tax cuts then send you portion back to the gov't or better yet give it to someone in need. Oh and by the way the tax cuts did work.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Yes, when a recession starts, when you decide to go it alone and fight a war you hyped, when you want to funnel money into the military industrial complex for Mars, the Moon and space weapons -- by all means cut taxes on the rich.

What are you talking about?? Space weapons, a military complex on the moon? I didn't know we were going to start making things up in this discussion!

[b said:
Quote[/b] ] Ever notice that the Democrats fought the big wars -- WWI (Pres. Wilson), WWII (FDR), Korea (Truman) and Vietnam (LBJ). The Repubs fought Grenada (Reagan) Panama(Bush) Iraq Act I (Bush) Afganistan unfinished (Shrub) and now Iraq Act II unfinished (Shrub). Gee, I think I will trust the Democrats to fight the big wars and truly protect my security.

I didn't know Dems and Repubs were in a battle to see who could get us through the biggest wars? Just because one party got us through a tougher war than the other doesn't mean anything other than the wars happened to happen when that party happened to be in office.


-buckeye
 
  • #54
geesh i would write down the whole lil oath thing as to why I'm a republican but Im too tired too now.
 
  • #55
I don't feel like doing the quotes, but Ozzy, AMEN. I tend to sway towards the repubs, but I am sorry, I think for myself. I evaluate every view and then make my OWN decission on it. Thats why you see me argueing only certain points.

Do I think Bush is the best choice in the country for prez, probably not. Do I think he is better than Kerry, #### yes. At least I know where Bush stands on things.

As to the tax cuts, and the "rich". Take this little tid-bit. The top 5% of the earners in the country pay roughly 80% of the taxes collected. So, what you are saying is they should pay more? Maybe 50% of my paycheck isn't enough because you couldn't muster up the intel. to make more than 20 grand a year? Give me a break, Bush's tax cuts droped me from 42% to 41% (of my gross pay) That extra 1% was put into my 401K (which goes directly into the stock market via mutual funds and bonds) which in turn boosted the economy.

Economics 101: If people have more money in there pocket they will spend more.

I am sorry if the folks that make 20K a year and only saw a 3 dollar a week increase arn't happy, but at the end of the day, it did work.

I really wish that we could see things YOUR way and we could all pay equal taxes. I wish you could see things from MY side. You could give half of your check to the gov. What, because I made something of myself I should be punished? Because I don't work at micky D's for a living I can "afford" to give more? I earn every dime I work for, just like you, why shouldn't I be entitled to the same taxes as you?
 
  • #57
The two party system doesn't work any better than any other system. I have always felt it wrong to just vote party and not conscience. In recent years I have come to realize that neither party gives a darn about us or our countries needs, but work off political agendas. What is good for the party IS NOT good for us. We have let the government walk all over us, and we have lost control of that government. We have no one to blame for that but ourselves, and arguing about the next Party man to Own our country is B.S. I think we need a multiple party government where the power is distributed between all parties and no 2 parties should ever hold control over us again. These 2 parties have messed up this country, and no democrat any more than any republican. They both suck rocks, and we need to get rid of those who pander to the party, and not the people. The power was ours, we need to get it back. Vote independantly, crush the stranglehold of the D's and the R's. I despise them both.
 
  • #58
[b said:
Quote[/b] (biggun110 @ May 02 2004,10:41)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]That really is a mis-informed statement. Bush stepped in at the start of a recession. Then 9/11 occured and dug us much deeper. Then Bush is starting to catch all of these crooked CEO's that Clinton allowed to lie and artificially inflate there earnings. Those are the reasons the economy was doing bad, which if you havn't noticed, is getting much better.


Ever notice that the Democrats fought the big wars -- WWI (Pres. Wilson), WWII (FDR), Korea (Truman) and Vietnam (LBJ). The Repubs fought Grenada (Reagan) Panama(Bush) Iraq Act I (Bush) Afganistan unfinished (Shrub) and now Iraq Act II unfinished (Shrub). Gee, I think I will trust the Democrats to fight the big wars and truly protect my security.
   
Ever notice how we loose ALOT More soldiers when drmocrats fight the wars
 
  • #59
One soldier dead because of anyone is too many.
 
  • #60
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Exactly how are they a monopoly? There are other alternatives to every piece of software that microsoft offers. Because they bundle FREE media players with there OS they are a monopoly? Because they are very good at selling OS's they are a monopoly? I am sorry, but anyone who is savy enough to d/l a new media player or i-net browser does have to adhere to this "monopoly". On the other hand, I sure don't want my grandma to call me when she buys a new computer because saying she can't get on the net because Windows didn't come bundled with a browser. Do they have some un-ethical practices? Yes, but let me tell ya, thats business, plain and simple.

Sorry to jump on this one a little late... Been reading posts... Politics as usual, but the this... monstrosity forced me out of the shadows. Microsoft is NOT BUSINESS AS USUAL. Someone needs to spend a little time catching up with today, spend a little time catching up here: www.slashdot.org. I could go HOURS on how Microsoft is a monopoly -and the antichrist to boot-, but I'm afraid that I have deviated off topic too much as is, feel free to PM me, or email me if you really feel like debating it. Sorry once again that I -at this point- don't have anything to add to the discussion except that at the aforementioned site, (www.slashdot.org) you can find plenty of ways to escape the bonds of the oil companies which Bush holds so dearly
 
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