Hand guns

[rattler]

i also fully support CCW's however i wish more classes on it were availible to ppl like me out in the boondocks. as stated before i am thinking about getting one because of how i carry my HUNTING revolver in my VEHICLE is concidered concealed by the local law enforcement, its in a "grey area" of the law. i have no reason to carry it in public and its really not possible to carry concealed except in the dead of winter when i wear heavy coats. its a Ruger super blackhawk with a 10.5 inch and scope. kinda big for a concealed carry weapon granted i live just down the road from the "city" a few years ago had the "honor" of having the highest murder rate per capita in the USA. i have no reason to carry a firearm for anything other than hunting or target shooting. i dont deal in large amounts of money or any of that.

i live in one of those places that are getting rarer and rarer these days where ppl dont look twice when you carry a "high powered sniper rifle" down the street. heck we kept our vehicles parked across the street from the high school loaded up with our shotguns rifles and 22's with enough ammo to take over a small country and never thought twice about it as long as we werent parked on school property. this was only 5 years ago, well after the Columbine tragity. the teachers that knew didnt care. sometimes they joined us on a hunting trip or just to blow of steam and shoot some pop bottles and cans after a long day of classes out on the edge of town.

Rattler

[Copper]

No, There is a law that allows one to carry a handgun and there is a law of concealed carry. They are two different things. In Nebraska we allow for the carrying of a handgun, but we do not allow concealed (or hidden) carry. I have spoken with our local expert (who is in favor of concealed carry) and he tells me that there are only three states that does not allow visible carry. You can have a holster and carry a gun as long as you have a permit for that gun (in this state). There are, however, lots of places you can not take a gun in with you, and lots of places you can.

Yes, crime happens and you have the right to be prepared. You take me wrong. I do not like the idea of concealed, that's my opinion, but I do believe in your right to bare arms. In Nebraska we do allow a person to carry a gun, visible. We do not allow brandishing which would be more of a waving around and threatening display. Do they not allow a normal carry of a gun in your state? Here you could have a gun right next to you on your car seat and be in no trouble if it is not concealed. So, here at least, I see no reason to have a concealed carry. One thing though, for safety reasons, the gun needs to be unloaded while in the car. If you are not allowed visible carry, but only concealed carry, then you have no choice and I would not dispute your concealed carry.

Also I should add that my opinion could be swayed with very strict rules to the concealed carry. The reason I could be swayed is that you are totally correct about the drop in crime. I will not get into some of the rules I would like to see due to the debate it may cause. I do like the forced education, a very good idea.

My experience (and some studies) show that you are wrong about where criminals get their guns. I take many reports every year involving stolen weapons. In almost everyone of these reports, but not all, the owners have left the guns in unsafe locations, ie bedroom draws, and did not have the serial numbers recorded. Many times we retrieve the guns. Once we retrieved guns that had not even been reported stolen yet, because they were used in a driveby shooting witnessed by myself and several other officers that happened to be working under cover in the area. That was one incident, there were many. We are constantly taking guns off of the criminal and sending them to the ATF for tracking to eventual find out they were stolen. The process is long. (In my last department) We even had an ex-officer have over 20 firearms stolen. He did not lock them up, but he did have serial numbers. I also know that specific homes have been hit because they housed guns. Come on, it's cheaper than buying. Criminal want guns they go were they can get them. Houses are cased. They get information about the owners and when they are expected to be gone. It is not that difficult to obtain information. Guns are going for two eight-balls on the streets here right now. An addict will do almost anything to get his next hit. Also guns are bought on the 'black market', but where do you think they come from. Arms manufactures are not selling to street punks. Now dangerous Goverments, that's a different story. That does not mean that people should not own or carry guns though.

You do take me wrong. I see no reason for a person not to have a gun (or carry it), but they must take responsibility for the gun. The gun must be secured when not in use. Also, I do not carry when off duty, but I have no problem with those that do. I should correct that there have been times when I did carry off duty. Those were times I knew I was going into a bad area, but had to.

My main idea in my last post is to point out that if choose to carry you must take the responsibility of your choice and you must be ready to face the consequences.

Nothing changes the fact that if you choose to carry a gun
1. You must be ready to use it.
2. You must be ready to take responsibilty for your actions.
3. You must keep others (but those you allow) from using your weapon (don't get it stolen)

Simple. I hope this does not offend. That is not my purpose and as I said I can be swayed about concealed carry. One thing I would like to see is that people can not carry while intoxicated. That may sound odd, but we did just have that college girl killed at a party by being shot in the throat accidentally. He meant to shoot someone else.

[Lauderdale]

This is a website that will give you general info about carry laws in each state.

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Default.aspx

[Casper]

I have to agree with Copper here. First of all, most guns on the street are stolen from peoples homes. They are one of the first things a burgler looks for when he breaks into a house. They are the easiest thing to sell on the street, and the fastest, hands down.

Secondly, most people that own guns do not live up to the responsibility of owning that weapon. They MUST be kept in a secure manner so that some crack-head breaking into your home can not easily steal it. My pistol is kept in a double re-inforced gun safe under my bed. The safe is secured through the carpet directly into the foundation of my home. It basically has a handprint on it, you slide your hand in, push the "fingers" in the correct order and the front opens giving me direct access to my gun. I can roll out of bed and have my weapon in my hand in under 20 seconds if needed.

I do carry on the streets alot as well (concealed). In my business, and un-fortunatly my city, I must go into some pretty rough areas. I actually find that I am MUCH less confrontational when I am carrying. I will walk away from ANY arguement. I actually lose my "macho-ness" because I know that I have a deadly weapon on me. I won't use it unless I am in a life or death situation, but even if I get into a fist fight, what if I lose? Some idiot could be walking around with my gun. I couldn't live with the fact that an innocent person could lose there life due to my inability to keep my weapon secure. So I simply walk away.

During my CCW course, I saw a lot of people that probably should not own a hand gun. If you own a gun for protection (lets face it, except in very rare circumstances a hand gun is not used for hunting, you must be prepared to actually use that weapon. A hand gun is NOT a deterant, it is a last resort. The only reason you should EVER pull your gun is when you are absolutly going to use it, and you must be prepared to pull the trigger. As copper said, many people get shot with there own gun. They may still be alive today if they simply did not own one because they where not able to actually use it when the time arose.

[rattler]

ah i think i didnt explain my situation well enough, my bad. the revolver is not sitting on the seat next to me in plain sight. i usually have it covered. leaving it in plain sight would give someone a reason to bust the window and steal it. a real possibility up here and being that its just around my insurance deductable it wouldnt be worth turning in so i would be out what i paid for it. but by keeping it covered should i be pulled over for a busted tail light or such if the officer is having a bad day he/she could bust me for having a concealed weapon w/o a permit. granted most cops in the area know me and would prolly just bring it to my attention but who knows. it was recommended to me by a couple of the officers around here that i should just apply for the CCW licence because they understood my intentions and would rather not have me busted for something like this.

like i said i have no use for the original intended purpose for the CCW permit but i land in a grey area and that is the reason ill prolly end up getting one. for personal protection, well the only place i really worry about that is at my home. for that i have one of the original Ruger 44 carbines loaded with good ammo. and if all else fails i have a Marlin 1895G in 45/70 which can put an end to any fight i pick with most anything be it man, beast, or pick-up truck

Rattler

[Travis]

Were is the source that you are getting information that criminals get guns from honest citizins? What book? Have there been studies on this?

[Copper]

Rattler, you made no bad and I think I understand what you are talking about, it has just become more of an open discussion. I do want to ask though, are you not allowed to transport hunting weapons? As I said, in Nebraskee we are relaxed on the visible carry. Most pickups you see have hunting weapons in racks on the back window. The handgun on the seat is an extreme. It was just to point out that could and has happened. According to safety rules the gun needs to be unloaded and should be in a case. All firearms transported in vehicles are to be unloaded in Nebraska, for safety.

Again, if you are in one of the states that does not allow for visible carry I do not see that you are given any choice in the matter and I would also suggest you apply for a ccw. My main point in both of the posts is responsibility for the weapon and that is an overall statement. I am more worried about handguns than long guns. It is hard to conceal a rifle in your pocket. Your a hunter and wish to be able to transport weapons for that purpose. I find hunting a very relaxing pastime. I like sitting in the woods, quietly and I love the hunt so I am with you on this one.

I believe the discussion started with Ozzy asking about a firearm. The decision is his. He just needs to think of all the angles and responsibilities. More over I would just like him to be prepared to defend his decision and use. If he does use the gun, even in defense of his life or the life of a loved one, it could go badly for him. This is not fair, but civil process has a lot of power and anyone can be sued for anything. Be prepared to fight a legal battle.

Also, at least in Nebraska, property is not a good enough reason to kill someone. Your life, or the life of another, must be at risk (at least you must be able to articulate that it was and that is the chase).

I actually teach courses on defense and explain many legal issues. My belief is that if someone is trying to kill you (or another) or cause SERIOUS BODILY INJURY, you have the right to take any means to defend yourself (including deadly force), but be able to ARTICULATE why you felt your action was necessary.

[Copper]

Travis, I will have to get in touch with others to get the specific information on the studies, but you miss that I have experienced this directly (a lot). I do have to point out here that we do not have concealed carry and perhaps if we did I would not see so much of it. I can not say for sure because we have not experienced it. Also, I think you still may be misunderstanding me. I am not against honest citizens owning guns. I am for it. All I state is to keep the weapons secured and safe (and know the SS number). I can not see why that would be a bad statement. Do you not agree? Also my opinion on concealed carry is just that, my opinion, and has very little baring. I will be getting with our department expert and will have him go over the word use of the new proposed concealed carry law for Nebraska. He tells me that the verbage has become more specific and I may find that it is exceptable to me.