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Presidental candidates

  • Thread starter Copper
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  • #21
I think Bush is in the group of the "Stupid Presidents" , I truely believe that he makes decisions that are the most stupidest and anyone can probably do a better job at it...
A note about the war- this war has baisically done nothing... for all I am concerned, now even more countries are against the US and terrorism is going to be not just Iraq now, but other Countries who hate us for the war. Instead why didn't bush say all of those Billions of dollars and focus it into supporting poorer countries, like make more schools, food, ect... and make more friends instead of foes.
We were standing strong before the war and would be if we didn't go into war... our country is now less respected by many middle eastern countries.
If only algore won...
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  • #22
#1 if Al Gore had won i may have had to turn in all my firearms by now. not a proposition i take lightly. it appears Kerry will be no better in this reguard. "Thoose who beat thier guns into plows will plow for those who dont" there is a reason the founding fathers put the right to bare arms right after the freedoms of speach and religion, the right to bare arms is needed to protect the first admendment. Hitler basically got rid of the right to individuals to own firearms in Germany not to long before he started "cleansing" his country of those he who deamed were unfit. realize this was only 60 years ago. it could happen again. "History is doomed to be repeated by those who refuse to learn from it"

#2 "terrorism" has NEVER just came from Iraq, you forget Bin Laudin is is a Saudi

#3 as to building schools in different poor countries. it sounds good in theory but doesnt seem to work in practice. look what missionairies have tried to do in Africa. sometimes they are welcomed, mostly they are run of or more common than most realize violently killed by the locals who think they have no buisiness there and who are interested only in whiping out their "enemies" so that they can be in sole control. case in point Somalia.

Personally i think the "billions of dollars" should be spent here at home. we need better health care, take care of the homeless, take care of the drug problem through TREATMENT not criminalization and prosicution.

Rattler
 
  • #23
missionairies are outposts that preach religion to the 'ungodfull' or whatever . their purpous is to convert the people of africa to a different religion than the one they currently beleive in, because the missionairies say that what they belive in is wrong.
They are not schools.
 
  • #24
yes i realize that flaw in my example, forgive me its sunday and i spent 3 days out in the sun and heat taking pics of the local rodeo for the paper. im a lil out of it. you find however in Africa that alot of it boils down to the tribal level. one tribe hates the other and this goes back centuries. one is dead set in wiping the other out and will take out anyone else who gets in their way. it is like this across Africa. some areas are relitivly peaceful others are and have been violent for a long time. unfortunatly its usually in the poorest areas that the violence is the worst. this makes it quite difficult to set up schools and hospitals where they would be needed most. in Somalia the UN was trying to bring food and aid into a drought and poverty stricken area where different tribes have been waring and wiping each other out for hundreds of years. we got sucked into a bloody mess and in alreality we were just there to help the famine.

i can even give you a less violent example here in the states. i live on the Fort Peck Indian Reservation. when this reservation was set up someone in the government got the bright idea to put the Lakota and the Assiniboine on the same land. HUGE mistake. these tribes have been out after each other since.......well since the memory of the tribes start. the two groups do not get along, have never gotten along and prolly will NEVER get along. the tribal council is made up of both tribes and one side is constantly trying to kick the other out of power and almost nothing gets accomplished. on the eastern side of the reservation there is LOTS of oil. both tribes could be rich but instead their fighting amongst themselves drove the oil companies out of here and none want anything to do with the reservation reguardless of how much oil is here.

Rattler
 
  • #25
Hi,

   The reason I am a Democrat is when I look at the last 100 years of US history I see the Democrats creating the conditions that took this country from a frontier town, farming and working class nation to a highly developed middle class country wealthier (if so often dumber and more selfish) than any nation before achieved. It was the Democratics' NEW DEAL that laid the interconnection between government and business that provided the deep pocket support for American business to explode after WWII. People love to scream about welfare for the poor but corporate WELFARE is never criticized. It is as if capitalists want capitalism for the middle class on down and socialism and aristocracy for the upper middle class on up! Business gets the real money it needs to do research and to cover its behind from the government. And, of course, taxes for those programs are blessed by  the fundamentalist, god fearing, tax cutting, short on smarts, President we suffer under now. How did a religion about the MORALITY of helping the least among us get co-opped as image by rich and powerful, fat cat, selfish, businessmen white guys?

Democrats also laid down the GI BILL after WWII over Republican attempts to kill it as Republicans love to wrap themselves in the flag, army and god but they have no desire to send their kids to serve or to raise their class' own taxes to give the poor working class kids who DO DIE for their "loving" god and country a better education or army paycheck. If this nation gave free college education like Europe and even Argentina does, we'd have no armed forces. Sad. Sad. Your life for an education. Jungle law in a Christian's thinking! It's all talk -- talk about the most profound and CORRUPT kind of innate flip flopping as a mindset. The GI BILL took that first generation of immigrant children and kids from earlier working class immigration and gave them a college education and made the "golden age" of America that the Republicans love to wrap themselves in. It's a Democratic outfit!

Then there is civil rights in the 60's which finally ended economic slavery for African Americans, latinos and women in America and that was a Democratic led movement.

Medicare and Social Security that lifted the abandoned old of America from poverty and early death was a Democratic idea.


You can go through the whole 20th century in America and every moment when the government was used to level the playing field and create a country where wealth is more fairly shared and where the government was used to insure the full promise of the founding IDEA that is AMERICA -- equality and freedom -- you see the Democrats fighting for it and the Republicans working to kill it. I hate the idea that business  philosophy is the answer for everything in life/fundamentalist theocracy the Repubs would oppress us with if they ever get more power.

Now they have saddled us with a business philosophy idea of education standards; a business idea of environmental controls; a religious idea of science; our own holy war led by only our Christian god, and a mind set defined by white kids raised in the 1960's who want to LOOK as if they live like an old movie version of the 1950's while consuming and partying with all the dumb wasteful STUFF of today inbetween prayers and hymns. And Republicans have the nerve to say that Democrats are hypocrits. Of course thinking people CHANGE THEIR MINDS AND POSITIONS as REALITY UNFOLDS. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's called thinking as opposed to mouthing ideology as Bush does. When one's mind has only beliefs and ideology and not ideas, facts and reality with which to think, then one is going to put on a great John Wayne, Clint Eastward, tough guy, holding the line performance like that snotty, smirking, condescending, judgmental. aristocratic, fratboy Bush does.

When you look at ALL of the soc/pol/eco history of the USA in the 20th century the Democrats have done the right thing by the majority of the people -- if not the popular thing with right wing, fundamentalist, anti-abortion, anti-gun control; creationism as sound science, business is all, me first and me only standards.

I only hope that this time the Nadar fools do not buy their own lunacy and chant that there is no difference between Demos and Repubs -- there is a universe of difference if you are middle class or below and just a smidge of difference if you are upper middle class on up. The rich side wins either way and always will. The lower class side ONLY wins with Demos! If you make less than 100,000 dollars a year and vote Republican you need suicide prevention care as you are self-destuctive. What really cracks me up is that Repubs are supposedly great business guys and gals and yet corporate America became a financial joke. Under Democratic leadership the economy for all always does better. If only Americans could get past their little "boutique" issues like religion, gun control and abortion and see the BIG picture. If they could a Repub couldn't get elected dogcatcher in Orange County, CA.

Bobby
 
  • #26
you believe there is actually a difference? there is a local politition in the state government, one of the few polititons i truely like. every election he runs as a democrat gets elected, and then votes mainly "republican". he runs democrate b/c he would never get elected as a republican. i fully support this man as he votes on the issue not the party lines. other than for a few key issues there is no difference. they run as what ever they think will get them elected in their district or as whatever their family is. there is a big difference between the Democrates of 50 years ago and those of today.

what is TRUELY hurting this country is the fact that the average Joe thinks he should get something for nothing. ppl are to "sue happy", everyone wants a raise for the same level of work they did last year, not because they have done a level of work that helped the company grow and prosper. the jobless rate is staying the same yet jobs are continually being created because a welfare check, as someone i know once stated, will make a Cadillac payment.

the difference between government today and it 50 years or more ago is less and less of the average Joe being in congress. its being filled up by career poloticians who are just interested in getting re-elected and not for doing good for the country.

freedom? we are not trying to free our selves of anything. we are seaking liberty as in "Give me liberty or give me death" liberty is the right to do as you wish as long as it does not interfere with the rights of your neighbor. it is distinctly lacking in this country anymore as more and more litigations make the lil stuff you enjoy doing harder and harder. gun control is not a trivial issue. our country is based on "trivial issues" like gun control and religion.

Rattler
 
  • #27
Im gonna go off topic for a moment,

But i for one am suprised by the price for the war in iraq. If its this expensive, for this intesety of mobilization, could america really afford another conflict on the scale of WWII, if one were ever to happen?
 
  • #28
All I know is this:
If I vote for Kerry, he'll probably tax away my parents' ability to keep me in college.
If I vote for Bush, I'm pretty sure my soul would dissolve.

I'll probably just vote for Kerry, not that it'll matter in VA.

All I want for christmas is a Giuliani/McCain ticket in 2008.
 
  • #29
Finch, honestly i dont know. i would highly doubt we could afford it but who knows.

Rattler
 
  • #30
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Capslock @ July 09 2004,6:08)]PS: No Creation in schools. That's an asinine idea. It's NOT an alternative scientific theory, it's NOT backed by the mountains of evidence and lab observation that evolution is, and is only ONE of many religious accounts of the creation of earth. It's totally inappropriate for the classrom, not to mention Unconstitutional on it's face.
Oviously you've confused creation with the evolutionary process. Creation is just what it is, what happened in the beginning? Even with in the realms of evolutionary debates between "secular" scholars no one can pinpoint the beginning point of the universe. Mathamaticly for it all to "just happen" the odds are beyond absurdity. Much akin to the odds of me winning the lotto 1,265 times in a row. Evolution is a point in fact it's ovious, but their are still many theorys on " how it all began" Thats what I'm talking about. You show me where every scientist agrees on how this world started and I'll digress. But guess what "Ain't gonna' happen'"
 
  • #31
Hey Zak,
Fair enough. However, there are two problems.

1) If you are a young-earth creationist, you claim the earth is roughly 6 thousand years old. Can't really be a YEC and beleive in evolution simultaneously. Bush was quoted as saying that he beleives Adam and Eve were the first humans. He beleives in the LITERAL word of Genesis, and that means a 6000 year old earth.

2) Even if you're NOT a YEC, creation as taught in the bible is a CRHISTIAN idea. Should not be taught in pulic schools with federal funding. That would be a federal endorcement of Christianity, which is unconstitional. Leave the teaching of creation to Sunday school and private school.
 
  • #32
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Oviously you've confused creation with the evolutionary process

No he obviously has not.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You show me where every scientist agrees on how this world started and I'll digress

You must be mitaken. Sientists already KNOW how this world was created. The discovery of protoplanets in other solarsystems provides a snapshot on how the planet-forming process began.
 
  • #33
Zak,
The question of the origin of the universe is not related to evolution of life on earth. It's a much more difficult question, and I'm not aware of any ciriculum in schools that advances a particular notion about it. When they teach evolution, it's about the development of life on earth, billions of years after the beginning of the universe.

Creationism is the expressly Christian doctrine that the universe was created according to a literal reading of Genesis in the Bible. That is the basis for Creationism, and the religious nature, plus the dearth of scientific backing, are why it is inappropriate as an alternative theory to evolution in the public schools.

On questions where there aren't mountains of evidence like the origin of the universe, they shouldn't advance ANY particular notions until such evidence is apparent.

Capslock
 
  • #34
Ok, I am at work, so I havn't had time to read the full thread.

I would like say that God's Garden made an excellent post.

I do not stand behind ALL of W's views, but hey, I would be hard pressed to find anyone whome I agree with 100%. One thing I like about W. is that he is a butt-kicker. Its about time we had someone who doesn't take things lying down. We where attacked by terrorists and he brought the fight to THEM.

Iraq: Ok, lets face it, Sadam was a friggen mad man. IF he would have ever gotten his hand on a nuke, the world would have been held hostage by a maniac who just didn't care.

Some of W's stands I do not agree with, but at least I KNOW WHERE HE STANDS.

I can't tell you what in the world Kerry stands on darn near anything. First he was going to cut military spending (Which also is how he voted just about everytime in the Senate) Now he wants to increase the mil. by over a third??? He speaks to the crowds and the polls, not from his own views. That is scary to me.

Another question, how do you, with a clean conscience chose a running mate whome you spent the first half of your campaign slinging mud at? Heck, if I was the bush camp I would just re-run Kerry's first adds against Edwards.

Did anyone catch Kerry with Whoopie Goldberg? That is another thing I would air if I was the bush camp.
 
  • #35
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]He speaks to the crowds and the polls, not from his own views. That is scary to me.

Interestingly, this doesn't bother my. My feeling is that the pres should do what the masses want, not what he (or she, I guess, one day) wants. The will of the people, not the will of the Pres. So, in a way, I guess it could be looked at as GOOD that he speaks to the masses and the polls..

Just thought I'd play Devil's advocate for a moment!
smile_m_32.gif
 
  • #36
the deal with whoopie, well, that's her opinion and i completely agree. bush is a screwup imo.

i wish gore had won.
 
  • #37
schoalty, in a way you could be right HOWEVER what if he is just playing the polls to get elected? and after he is elected he goes on his own agenda? like Casper says, we know where Bush stands, do we really know what Kerry is going to do? is he going to keep doing the "will of the majority" or is he going to go off on his own tangent? im not sure if he even knows.

Rattler
 
  • #38
Rattler,
When you're right, you're right! We don't know if he will keep it up or try to advance his own agenda. I really WAS playing Devil's advocate. I wish he had more of a spine. Whatever. I also wish to HAVE and environment for my daughter to enjoy... I'm really stuck.... I say "Write in Tamlin Dawnstar!"

Oooo....can't WAIT for him to read that one....LOL.
 
  • #39
theres an idea! i wonder if he would go for it? i too share your enviromental concerns. but i know Kerry's stand on gun control. while alot figure it a "trivial issue" i dont, i rate it up there with the freedoms of speech, press and religion. i figure as long as the general populace has their inaliable rights we can always get back control over the enviroment. even if the unfortunate and unlikely happens and we are required to take back control by force.

Rattler
 
  • #40
One thing I guarantee is that Kerry will not take your guns away. That would be political suicide, and would cause ME, the ultimate pacifist, to go out and buy one. Ending gun ownership has never been part of the Kery platform.

Capslock
 
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