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The federal marriage ammendent

  • Thread starter Wesley
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  • #221
Zak, that makes the wild assumuption that Gay couple cannot be good parrents. Horsefeathers!

I know PLENTY of straight couple that have ROYALLY messed up their children. I just got finished teaching a kickboxing class to a group of women who had to FLEE THEIR STRAIGHT, CHURCH-SANCTIONED marriage because their husbands reapeatedly beat the crud out of them. Do you have any idea how messed up their children are?

This is not a gay-straight problem, this is a PARENTING problem.
 
  • #222
That paper, by "Focus on the Family", an ultraconservative group, simply states that the study by the American Academy of Pediatrics shouldn't be considered definitive. It offered no counter data, nor posited any counter-conclusions, except by innuendo. The AAP study showed that children in gay/lesbian households are perfectly normal and healthy.

So, who's the more objective commentator on the issue: The American Association of Pediatrics, who actually did a study, or the "Focus on the Family", a rabidly right-wing group feverishly pusing the anti-gay ammendment?

Capslock
 
  • #223
This whole thread to me---YAWN!!!!!!! More important, how do you deal with the trouble the government started in Iraq? How do you get out of it, where are the nasty weapons?? If gays want to get married, more power to them. God will tell them what HE thinks of it when they get there, so it's HIS call. If they want the headaches of the taxes, responsibilities, divorce, etc., have at it!! More money for the Governmental coffers, so why shoot themselves in the foot, like they did in Iraq?? WHO CARES IF THEY MARRY?
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? Marriage is more difficult than being single, so let them find that out. I am more concerned about the terrorist cells already in this country. This issue is unimportant next to that.
 
  • #224
JLAP,
While it is true that God grants us love and peace, repentance, mercy, and forgiveness are also important.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]hey! check it out..I found some Bible verses that totally support homosexuality!
and since its in the bible, it must be true that God supports gay marriage.

S.Matthew 19.12: for there are eunuchs ( dis-men-ed ), which were born so from their mother's womb...

Matthew 19:12.
For there are eunuchs who are born thus from their mothers womb, and there are eunuchs who are made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who are eunuchs for the kingdom of heavens sake. Let those who can accept it, accept it.


New English Bible conception: For there are some incapable of marriage, because they were born so

All right, firstly, find out what a eunuch is (not in the harem sense). What Jesus was saying is that if anyone can't marry, or chooses not to marry, that is up to him. He wants to avoid people saying you have to marry or you shouldn't marry, as if one is more holy than the other.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]John 8.7: So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

John 8.15: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man

And in what way am I judging anyone? By presenting what the bible says on the subject?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Rom:14.14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Here Paul is talking about indifferent things, where scripture does not command or forbid it. Such as marriage.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Mark 12:30-31 "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. The second is this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these."

"There is not commandment greater (not other) than these.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]1.Cor.7.17: However may be, each one must order his life according the gift the Lord has granted him and his condition when God called him.

Point being?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]hopefully you are young enough that you will have enough time to repent from your sinful and hateful views against your fellow man..
God will give you a second chance if you can someday purge the hatred and biggotry from your mind..
there is still hope for you..

I have no hateful views. If it seems that way, I'll just stop presenting my arguments. In fact, I feel quite the opposite. If I did hate anybody, I wouldn't do anything to discourage them from leading a sinful life that would result in death.

My apologies if I have offended anyone, I certainly don't have any hard feelings.
Peter
 
  • #225
ALL life results in death, rubrarubra, so i'm afraid you'll have to do better than that. my "sinful ways" won't kill me, time will.
 
  • #226
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]ALL life results in death, rubrarubra, so i'm afraid you'll have to do better than that. my "sinful ways" won't kill me, time will.


John 3:16-21
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
 
  • #227
So, Rubrarubra, beleif in God is based soley on fear of death? Boy, no wonder you have such a following! Death is scary thing....
 
  • #228
oh so your saying that gay's go to ####?

well, even if i did believe in god i guess i'm screwed either way, huh?
 
  • #229
JLAP, That's a BAD pun...screwed either way indeed.
 
  • #230
LMAO! your good schloaty
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  • #231
Who said gays go to $*(( ? Do all alcohaulics, or murders, or adulters go to ****? There is only one unpardnable sin, and since you're Biblicaly educated (as stated earlier) JLAP you already know what that is, I hope.

I didn't come to Christ because of the fear of death. I did because I saw peoples lives changing for the better. In the service I was as far from Christian as the devil himself. At that point I didn't fear death, in fact, I longed for it. I've been on both sides of the coin, and occasionaly I still visit the wrong side of the coin, OK frequently I do. But the difference it makes in mine, my children, and my wife's life when I'm where I'm suppose to be is undeniable. I'm proly the biggest sinner here, and am often very selfish in my sin. But, that doesn't mean I THINK I'm right. I can't defend what I'm doing as ok because I feel like doing it. I KNOW I'm wrong I just choose to be wrong. Eventually, when I get sick and tired of being sick and tired, and I've had more than I can stand, I come running back to the forgiving arms of my Savior. In fact I should probably go do that right now.
 
  • #232
your right, i do know what that is. while many scholars and christians have their own opinions, i believe it's speaking against the holy spirit , thus permanitally rejecting christ is synonomous. imo.

rubrarubra inplied that. when he said death, that implies eternal spiritual death, IE going to ####.

and i agree with you about not fearing death. to me it's just the third stage of life. do i believe in heaven/####? no. i believe in higher dimensions of existance where you exist at a much higher frequency. for example, all matter , including us, is just energy vibrating at a low frequency.

and if course they don't go to ####, you make your own ####.
 
  • #233
So this is now turning back into a religious debate about whether homosexuality is a sin or not. Let me ask you this:

As an Atheist (going to heck anyway, lol), why should I have to follow the laws dictated by the church?

More aptly, lets make the assuption that in Bhuddism (sp?), homosexuality is NOT a sin (don't know much about Bhuddism, but for the sake of argument, lets make this assumption). Why should a bhudist, in America (freedom of religion and all that Jazz) be forced to follow christian code? That's NOT freedom of religion.
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  • #234
because those uber, holier than thou christians are afraid no admit they are wrong, outdated, and ignorant
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they think their opinions are absolute.
 
  • #235
Why should I have to follow laws based on atheism?

So you're saying we should have no laws at all- basicly. Because, the majority of laws we have are based on certain( and I won't narrow it down) "religious beliefes". Again you're picking what works for you as an indivdual, and discarding what is'nt working for you at the moment.
 
  • #236
Did you just call me a uber?
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  • #237
i'll let you interpret what i say however you want zak.
and in the context, it isn't a good thing, so if you think i did call you that i wouldn't be smiling.


and you shouldn't follow laws based on atheism, you should follow laws on whats right and whats wrong. allowing gays to marry is right, preventing it is wrong, thus your a hypocrite saying its wrong to follow laws based on atheism (which it is) then trying to force your beliefs on me. period.
 
  • #238
After reading through much of this relentless topic I'll state my opinion.

If gays want to marry, more power to them. WHO CARES, its their life, let them do what they want to. As long as it's not directly effecting every minute of our daily life I do not think we should be stressing over what people in this country want to do. The only problem I DO have with gay marriage is the adoption of children into their family. I do not think children need to be raised with 2 gay parents.

My.02 cents.
 
  • #239
oh really? why not dustin? think we won't make good parents, why is that?

whats the difference between 2 dads and one single day? or 2 moms and 1 single mom?
 
  • #240
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Why should I have to follow laws based on atheism?

So you're saying we should have no laws at all- basicly. Because, the majority of laws we have are based on certain( and I won't narrow it down) "religious beliefes". Again you're picking what works for you as an indivdual, and discarding what is'nt working for you at the moment.

Not so. You're argument is that allowing gay marriage is an atheist law? NO...it's actually the ABSENSE of a law. Greater freedom=less law. It's lack of a law so as not to discriminate against atheists.

Now, with regards to picking and choosing thing, you're missing something fundamental. Most laws, like "you may not kill anyone (nice legalese, eh?)" are not based on religion (though they may be found in most, because they just make sense ANYWHERE), but based on what a society needs to function as a well oiled machine. Killing people disrupts the machine. Stealing disrupts the machine. Anything that poses a real, PHYSICAL threat disrupts the machine. Two guys marying each other does not. You cannot show how it would, because it simply does not.

Here is why I think people don't like the idea of gay marriage. They're afraid of it. Fear causes otherwise good people to do/think stupid things. This is fear born of ignorance. I don't blame them completely for this, I actually pity them. Takes courage to face your fears, which they obviously lack. Oh, well. Attitudes like that will continue to flourish less and less as education becomes better and more accessable to everyone. Bigotry, hatred, racism, etc. are all a function of lack of understanding. People fear what they do not understand, and often destroy what they fear. Fundamental flaw in human group psychology.
 
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