What's new
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

For the presidencial fense sitters...

  • Thread starter schloaty
  • Start date
  • #41
[b said:
Quote[/b] (schloaty @ Aug. 03 2004,9:15)]My dear Scotty, you missed the point of my post....You ARE right about those who are ALREADY extremists.  They are a lost cause, and they need to be stopped.  HOWEVER the average Iraqi is just like the average American.  They don't really want to kill anyone.  Some of then are even eager to learn how to rebuild their own country.  THOSE are the ones, I would argue, should be given education.

As for any that do raise arms against us, well, they should be dealt with.  However, you cannot condemn the masses for the actions of a few.  It seems like your perception of them as all evil, death seeking pschopaths may have been slightly colored by propoganda.  Only bad news makes money, so all you'll ever hear about are the bad people over there.  You won't hear about the average Joe just trying to feed his family.
No, I didnt miss your point at all!
I wasnt talking about "the masses"..
I know perfectly well that the majority of average Iraqi citizens are happy we toppled Saddam! (which goes against some *other* propaganda we all have heard! ;)

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]It seems like your perception of them as all evil, death seeking pschopaths may have been slightly colored by propoganda.

no, it has not been colored by propaganda.
it has been colored by cold hard facts..
I have been to lower Manhattan since 9/11.
those towers really are gone.
3,000 innocent Americians really did die.
thats where my "perception" of them as "evil, death seeking pschopaths" is coming from..

Scot
 
  • #42
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I wasnt talking about "the masses"..
I know perfectly well that the majority of average Iraqi citizens are happy we toppled Saddam! (which goes against some *other* propaganda we all have heard! ;)

Scotty, sorry buddy! Sounded like you wanted them ALL dead in your post. I guess I thought you wanted to turn that whole area of the world into a giant, self-lit parking lot.

And I LIVE in NY. I drive past that crater once a week. I think I have a pretty good grasp of what transpired.
 
  • #43
[b said:
Quote[/b] (schloaty @ Aug. 03 2004,9:36)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I wasnt talking about "the masses"..
I know perfectly well that the majority of average Iraqi citizens are happy we toppled Saddam! (which goes against some *other* propaganda we all have heard! ;)

Scotty, sorry buddy!  Sounded like you wanted them ALL dead in your post.  I guess I thought you wanted to turn that whole area of the world into a giant, self-lit parking lot.

And I LIVE in NY.  I drive past that crater once a week.  I think I have a pretty good grasp of what transpired.
No! thats not what I meant at all!!
I just re-read my post, and I *think* it was clear that I was only talking about the terrorists..the "extremists"..
sorry if it wasnt clear!
Scot
 
  • #44
[b said:
Quote[/b] (schloaty @ Aug. 03 2004,9:36)]And I LIVE in NY.  I drive past that crater once a week.  I think I have a pretty good grasp of what transpired.
wow, that must be something to drive by there all the time!
were you close enough to see everything on 9/11?
I was there last summer, and it was absolutely stunning to see the skyline for the first time with the towers GONE!!
I know New York city very well..I LOVE the town!
I went to college in New Paltz, across the river from Poughkeepsie..we used to take the Metro North into NYC all the time..I was up on top of the WTC many times..
Scot
 
  • #45
I saw the smoke still rising 2 days afterwards as I crossed Long Island Sound on the Whitestone Bridge.

Seeing that giant, gaping whole where two buildings once stood every time I cross that bridge really, really hurts....Still.

I'm only down that way once a week (well, not at the moment, as a newborn demands much attention), but that's enough to keep the image fresh.
 
  • #46
I cant disagree with you on that, capslock because you are absolutly right.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]you people dont get it..THEY WANT TO KILL US ALL!!!!!!!!!!

Too right. I remember seeing a video statement by a prominent al-quehitd operetibe declaring that " A attack can only be declared a arab victory 2 million amaricans are killed"

blast them all
violent-smiley-026.gif




Or better- give them the most embarising death of all

                                 Death by penny!
 
violent-smiley-085.gif
 
  • #47
Personally, I feel that, while the initial invasion of Iraq was misguided, we now have a commitment to the Iraqi people that we can't pull out of now. We started this war (In Iraq, at least), and we can't just withdraw our troops just because we're tired of hearing about it. If we leave now these Iraqi extremist groups WILL seize power and then all we've done is created a true terror state to replace the haven Al Qaida lost in Afghanistan.

Also, Bush is not much better than Clinton. They BOTH had intelligence that could have prevented 9/11, they BOTH could have taken the fight to Al Qaida much sooner. I', not saying it's more Bush's fault that Clinton's, but to heap all the blame on one president is a tad shortsighted. Bush has made many mistakes as president, some on foreign policy, some on domestic policy. I personally don't agree with him at all. I don't see why I should feel obligated to automatically agree with what he does. This is America, I'm allowed to disagree with my president if I feel like it. And I sure as heck am not going to vote for him based solely on the War on Terror. Yes, we've been safe from terrorist attacks, but think about this: Between the 1993 bombing of the WTC to 9/11, how many major terrorist attacks have been carried out in the US (Not counting McVeigh and the Unabomber)? I'm not saying our government isn't acting to prevent future attacks, but attacks on that kind of scale don't happen very often. To say that 9/11 would not happen while Bush is in office (picks up rock off of ground) is a bit like me saying this rock keeps tigers away. There no guarantee another attack will not happen again regardless of who is in office, but considering how badly the reconstruction of Iraq has been handled I don't feel that Bush is as equipped to handle this as some other candidates might be.

PS: If you disagree with me I have no problem with that, but flame me and I WILL take retribution. I'm all uop for discussion, but do not scream at me or patronize me. That is all.
 
  • #48
Kerry -65%
Kuchini- 63%
Bush- 20%


Not all that surprised really. I don't agree with some of things Bush has done, but I also don't like Kerry all that much. Seems shady to me and gets caught in some mixups depending on who he is talking to. Going to be a sticky time either way from what I am gathering no matter who is in office. They will have this huge mess with Iraq to deal with and that is going to take time, money, and resources. Not a good time to jump into presidency when Americans are having doubts.
 
  • #49
Cynic.... I agree with you pretty much. We cannot pull out now as that will put ALL the things that did occur with the War to be all for a waste. All the lives lost will be just dead bodies and nothing to be accomplished from it. We pull up and get out now, looking at another Leader who will take it by force. unfortunately, I think we WANT out of Iraq, but right now, it would be a terrible mistake. So what does that leave us with? Stay there unfortunately and get their government situated, restaffed, their armies trained to protect their own govrnment from the extremists and terrorists, and give the country back to the people.

*chips in his two cents*
 
  • #50
I have to say that I agree with Cynic81 the most. He said alot of things that I wanted to say. There is one thing I think I need to say. Everybody that believes Iraq was invaded to protect Americans is as blind as Bush wants you to be. I told my wife before he was in office, that he would invade Iraq and he won't stop until Saddam is either dead or captured. To prove this look at all of his cabinet. Almost everyone of them is a former military person. Some of the best that there is. Before the war even started, the first tomahawk missile was fired at a house that Saddam was believed to be at. Bush wanted to finish his dad's job. Saddam put a hit out on Bush Sr. GW wanted to get revenge for that. Why else would Bush let Osama go free and take most of our troops to take out Saddam. The Un had Saddam contained in his own country, he was no danger to anybody but his own people.

To the people that say's that Kerry changes points of view all the time proves that you are blinded by Bush propaganda. Alot of senators voted for the war in Iraq because Bush lied to them about the weapons that Saddam had. Alot of the same senators voted against the 87 billion more that Bush wanted to spend.
I think all the increased terror levels are just another lie Bush is using to keep people scared so they will vote for him. Why else would they raise the threat levels and say that an attack is about to happen but it's safe enough to reopen the statue of liberty the same day when it's been closed since 9/11.
I hope America wakes up and votes for somebody that will fight the real terrorist instead of lying to us about who the terrorist are.

I know I'll get flamed for this response but I don't care, I spoke my mind.
 
  • #51
I think its endlessly fasinating that the people who are the most blinded by propaganda are the most convinced that its not them, but other people, who are blinded by propaganda..but I guess thats the mark of excellent propaganda, it works so well that the people who are totally blind arent even remotely aware that they are...
 
  • #52
Kerry: 76%
Kucinich: 63%
Bush: 26%
 
  • #53
Seeing so many Kerry's.... makes me wonder if this is even accurate. Haven't been keeping up with the polls but I know it isn't landslide Kerry
 
  • #54
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Krom @ Aug. 03 2004,11:05)]Seeing so many Kerry's.... makes me wonder if this is even accurate. Haven't been keeping up with the polls but I know it isn't landslide Kerry
I just think most people on here tend to be on the left. You certainly couldn't call this forum representative of the U.S.
 
  • #55
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]PS: If you disagree with me I have no problem with that, but flame me and I WILL take retribution. I'm all uop for discussion, but do not scream at me or patronize me. That is all.

and

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I know I'll get flamed for this response but I don't care, I spoke my mind.

Guys, one of the best things about this forum is that, for the most part, people can disagree without flaming each other. I don't think you have anything to worry about...
Pretty smart bunch we got here...
 
  • #56
Krom most of the members here are definatly lefties.

I know i am. Bush made a very recent statement.In wich he said. "knowing what we know now about the prewar intelegence, we would of still gone into iraq bacause saddam was a threat to america, a threat to the world."


lesse knowing what we know now about the prewar intelegence...

...

...
 
  • #57
I voted almost completly right and it still had Kerry come out 2% ahead of GW I agree with Krom either Bush and Kerry stand for the same things, or theres not enough difference on their stance, or The polls rigged.
 
  • #58
well the two agree on staying the course in ariq and other issues about it, just not on the way to go about it. Kerry and bush are both vying for more UN troops in the area.

you may also have left some key issues on 'no opinion' option

For me the i would just be happier if bush actually tries to clean up his enviormental stance, so to speak, but unfortunatly that doent look like its going to happen.
 
  • #59
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]o the people that say's that Kerry changes points of view all the time proves that you are blinded by Bush propaganda. Alot of senators voted for the war in Iraq because Bush lied to them about the weapons that Saddam had. Alot of the same senators voted against the 87 billion more that Bush wanted to spend.

Once again, I am scanning, I won't have time to read the threads to the fullest untill Friday, BUT.. I gotta comment on that quote.

Pick 1 topic that concerns most americans and I can PROVE without a reason of a doubt that Kerry has flip flopped his opinion on it based on SHORT term public polls. He tells you what you want to hear. Nothing more.

I can prove it very easily with public voting records, his speaches and even his campaign.

Economy, millitary, terrorism, S.S., abortion, gun rights, constition, etc...

Not saying that GW is right, but I do know where he stands on the issues. Kerry, I have to look up on a daily basis to figure out.
 
  • #60
HI,

WOOHOOOOO! I am as big of a lefty as I thought I was!!!!!!!!

Bush 6%

Kerry 76%

Kucinich 88%

Bobby
 
Back
Top