TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
P. casabitoana emergency
- Thread starter Amateur_Expert
- Start date
-
- Tags
- casabitoana germinate ping seeds wild
Finch
Whats it to ya?
[b said:
Thats right. You should NOT take any plants just because YOU want them. Its a moral issue more than anything else, and anyone who would take 1/2 of a stand of rare plants is someone who does not have any regard for wild specimens.
i my be wrong about your motives, but thats what it looks like to me. Not cool
To get plants into culture you need to get wild plants. Is everyone missing the fact that i said i wouldn't take any plants? just seeds? And its not just because i want them, i want to get them into cultivation. It has been reported that they have been close to extinction before. Pyro is right, they must have adapted to the island and its tropical climate, but sometimes the climate is too radical. Them being in culture assures their survival. I'm not going out there to take them because i just want them. I don't need to take them, i can go look at em anytime i want. They are in my dam backyard. sorry but you guys are making me feel like a bad guy when all i have are good intentions
yeah im with Amateur_Expert on this one, i dont think there is need to state the obvious but in this case, its nessesary..all plants in cultivation started somewhere, they did not origionate in your terrarium they started wild or their roots started wild.. and he stated he's not taking the plants, not only beaucse he CANT but beacuse there is no need to, im pritty sure if he was to offer seeds in the trading forums yall wouldent bad mouth him, you just might be the first ones to send SASE's!
but none the less, please leave the moderators job to the moderators..thanks
Finch
Whats it to ya?
(sigh) your right i should think before i badmouth someone. I just feel that this task is for qualified experts. While you didnt say directly that you wanted them, in my mind i tought
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
You get the plants-------|
/\ |
| |---> You give them to experts to propigate|
| |
| |
| -------------------------They become numorous and into cultivation
---------------------------------------------------------------------
In my mind i tought this, and indeed this is how it seemed to me. But i should not make assumptions.
So i ask u. Is this map true? if its not and its just me i think ill feel a whole lot better, and apologize for my actions.
(nomatter how i say this i still come off looking like a untrusting jerk...)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
You get the plants-------|
/\ |
| |---> You give them to experts to propigate|
| |
| |
| -------------------------They become numorous and into cultivation
---------------------------------------------------------------------
In my mind i tought this, and indeed this is how it seemed to me. But i should not make assumptions.
So i ask u. Is this map true? if its not and its just me i think ill feel a whole lot better, and apologize for my actions.
(nomatter how i say this i still come off looking like a untrusting jerk...)
nah, i would of done the same thing if someone was going around taking plants just to take them. but this is the plan:
I'm going to go over there are take note of growing conditions, bring some seeds back, replicate the growing conditions and germinate the seeds. I've made plans with Pyro, since he has connections with the Atlanta Botanical Garden, and their TC expert, he told me that if i get him some viable seeds he will get them to the TC expert. The TC expert is very qualified and is experience in cloud forest species. It's aight finch, you was just looking out for the plants that unfortunately have no say in who takes them or not
lol.. i know i'd be pissed if someone plucked me from my roots and studied me..
I'm going to go over there are take note of growing conditions, bring some seeds back, replicate the growing conditions and germinate the seeds. I've made plans with Pyro, since he has connections with the Atlanta Botanical Garden, and their TC expert, he told me that if i get him some viable seeds he will get them to the TC expert. The TC expert is very qualified and is experience in cloud forest species. It's aight finch, you was just looking out for the plants that unfortunately have no say in who takes them or not
Finch
Whats it to ya?
wouldn't it be easier to take cuttings? if you take a cutting, that doesn't harm the population in the wild and it benefits the population in cultivation.... right?
It's so sad when anything goes extinct...
but.... I was thinking... why are VFT's so rare in the wild? there are plenty of VFT's in captivity... as far as I know, the fact that they're in cultivation hasn't helped in the wild.
and apparently people WILL go to a lot of trouble (especially for a species that isn't in cultivation) to get plants... after all, why do people poach VFTs? they're not all that expensivie.
aldough a species in captivity IS better than an extinct species
It's so sad when anything goes extinct...
but.... I was thinking... why are VFT's so rare in the wild? there are plenty of VFT's in captivity... as far as I know, the fact that they're in cultivation hasn't helped in the wild.
and apparently people WILL go to a lot of trouble (especially for a species that isn't in cultivation) to get plants... after all, why do people poach VFTs? they're not all that expensivie.
aldough a species in captivity IS better than an extinct species
Clint
Stay chooned in for more!
This topic of wild collecting has arisen in several times and places.
Always, it comes down to a judgement call, as to what constitutes a legitimate collection. In this case, as I understand it, the species is quite rare. This alone is BIG reason numero uno to leave it alone, completely. Plants with very narrow geographic range are usually sensitive populations to begin with: something is happening with them - they are growing or they are diminishing. In either case, it is a narrow limit. I am willing to bet a local authority there will support this view.
It would be good for a sample to reach the TC facilities of the ABG, but in this case I feel the collection should be under the guidance of a responsible botanist who has studied the species in habitat there. If that person concurrs that it is advisable to take a live plant or seed collection, then all that remains is to secure the legal permissions and arrange for the best transport. You will need to do some research and much advance planning!
If you don't take this route, then you are just going out to smuggle an endangered plant, hoping it makes it so maybe you can grow it. Definitely "not cool", even with the best of intentions. Also, to the best of my knowledge the ABG does not solicit or accept illicit material lacking documentation, so the TC thing is out unless you can provide such assurances.
Sometimes, as in the case of the Crestview site collection, there really IS an emergency. This *appears* to be an emergency, just as the red flava reported theft *appeared* to be, at least, initially. But, in the latter case, it turned out not to be an emergency at all just an error in reporting that got blown out of proportion, and it was VERY good that no one ran out there to "save" those poor last plants! We need confirmation of these reports before immediately spring into action, even when it is inconvenient to one's vacation plans. In all cases of wild plants, I prefer to know the collection has had some supervision by qualified authorities, although at the same time I have to conceed that most of what I grow probably was not collected with these mentioned protocols. We all have the sin. We accept the plants even if we know their origin was less than legitimate, and I hope it is out of love and not greed.
I think for this example: a natural event affecting a local population that there is no impetus for an emergency collection, but a local botanical authority may well disagree with me, and favor your idea. I encourage you to seek him out.
If this is a cloud orchid type plant, it will prove very difficult to grow without adequate conditions. Still, if you are willing to go through the steps: contact and enlist the assistance of a qualified researcher, and obtain the legal permissions, undertake the expense - then I think you too, as well as the ABG should have a crack at growing the plant. If nothing else, your failure will provide useful data, and you might surprise everyone and have it grow like a weed, and teach the ABG a thing or two! Those seeds and plants you produce will be wonderful gifts to the community, and I compliment you on your interest in bringing them to us in a reasoned and responsible way.
Good luck!
Always, it comes down to a judgement call, as to what constitutes a legitimate collection. In this case, as I understand it, the species is quite rare. This alone is BIG reason numero uno to leave it alone, completely. Plants with very narrow geographic range are usually sensitive populations to begin with: something is happening with them - they are growing or they are diminishing. In either case, it is a narrow limit. I am willing to bet a local authority there will support this view.
It would be good for a sample to reach the TC facilities of the ABG, but in this case I feel the collection should be under the guidance of a responsible botanist who has studied the species in habitat there. If that person concurrs that it is advisable to take a live plant or seed collection, then all that remains is to secure the legal permissions and arrange for the best transport. You will need to do some research and much advance planning!
If you don't take this route, then you are just going out to smuggle an endangered plant, hoping it makes it so maybe you can grow it. Definitely "not cool", even with the best of intentions. Also, to the best of my knowledge the ABG does not solicit or accept illicit material lacking documentation, so the TC thing is out unless you can provide such assurances.
Sometimes, as in the case of the Crestview site collection, there really IS an emergency. This *appears* to be an emergency, just as the red flava reported theft *appeared* to be, at least, initially. But, in the latter case, it turned out not to be an emergency at all just an error in reporting that got blown out of proportion, and it was VERY good that no one ran out there to "save" those poor last plants! We need confirmation of these reports before immediately spring into action, even when it is inconvenient to one's vacation plans. In all cases of wild plants, I prefer to know the collection has had some supervision by qualified authorities, although at the same time I have to conceed that most of what I grow probably was not collected with these mentioned protocols. We all have the sin. We accept the plants even if we know their origin was less than legitimate, and I hope it is out of love and not greed.
I think for this example: a natural event affecting a local population that there is no impetus for an emergency collection, but a local botanical authority may well disagree with me, and favor your idea. I encourage you to seek him out.
If this is a cloud orchid type plant, it will prove very difficult to grow without adequate conditions. Still, if you are willing to go through the steps: contact and enlist the assistance of a qualified researcher, and obtain the legal permissions, undertake the expense - then I think you too, as well as the ABG should have a crack at growing the plant. If nothing else, your failure will provide useful data, and you might surprise everyone and have it grow like a weed, and teach the ABG a thing or two! Those seeds and plants you produce will be wonderful gifts to the community, and I compliment you on your interest in bringing them to us in a reasoned and responsible way.
Good luck!
AE,
Dont go thanking me just yet. You seem very eager to save something that might not need saving at all. As I said in my email, this needs to be sanctioned, legal and ethical to have my blessing. If not, and I learn suddenly of this plant in collections without an alternative explanation or documentation, it is going to go badly for all involved. I will not see TF used as a vehicle of illicit acquisition of plant material, nor as a distribution network for the same. Anyone who acquires this plant better have some proof of where it came from, or I am going to be on them like white on rice.
I hope we are ALL clear on this. Anyone with this plant, and no good reason to explain where it came from is likely to be finding a new forum to hang their sorry hat at if I have anything to say about it, and I will.
Dont go thanking me just yet. You seem very eager to save something that might not need saving at all. As I said in my email, this needs to be sanctioned, legal and ethical to have my blessing. If not, and I learn suddenly of this plant in collections without an alternative explanation or documentation, it is going to go badly for all involved. I will not see TF used as a vehicle of illicit acquisition of plant material, nor as a distribution network for the same. Anyone who acquires this plant better have some proof of where it came from, or I am going to be on them like white on rice.
I hope we are ALL clear on this. Anyone with this plant, and no good reason to explain where it came from is likely to be finding a new forum to hang their sorry hat at if I have anything to say about it, and I will.
Clint
Stay chooned in for more!
