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Presidential debate
- Thread starter Amateur_Expert
- Start date
As president, Bush won the war in Iraq, but is losing the peace. He is responsible for the US losing its reputation in the world. He has reversed progress made on the environment. His policies have stifled job creation, sent people into poverty, and removed people from heath care insurance coverage. He turned a budget surplus into a budget deficit and increased the national debt. Still, Bush is leading in the popularity polls. His only success has been in public relations.
Fortunately, the debate showed a Bush who was unprotected by the likes of Karl Rove. His PR managers were able to teach him a few phrases like “hard work” and “mixed messages.” But Bush repeated these phrases so many times that it went beyond emphasizing the message and showed that he was incapable of thinking for himself. What worries me is that Bush is starting to believe his own PR, which tries to lump together Saddam Hussein with terrorism in general, because Bush said something to the effect that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11 (!) I believe that the next debate, which will be on domestic policy issues, will further show that Bush represents a PR shell that does not have any actual substance.
Fortunately, the debate showed a Bush who was unprotected by the likes of Karl Rove. His PR managers were able to teach him a few phrases like “hard work” and “mixed messages.” But Bush repeated these phrases so many times that it went beyond emphasizing the message and showed that he was incapable of thinking for himself. What worries me is that Bush is starting to believe his own PR, which tries to lump together Saddam Hussein with terrorism in general, because Bush said something to the effect that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11 (!) I believe that the next debate, which will be on domestic policy issues, will further show that Bush represents a PR shell that does not have any actual substance.
Clint
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i like a president that doodles, but i dont see why water is relevent.
and wolf, moore is a GENIUS! he's totally correct and nothing is wrong with being left-wing
if you want to keep people in the dark ages and ignorant, if you want the innocent to die, if you want a president that try's to pass ammendments based on religion that opress other people, then by all means, PLEASE vote for bush.
and am i the only one that things kerry looks like a camel that fell into a vat of instant-tanner and bush looks like a chimp?
and wolf, moore is a GENIUS! he's totally correct and nothing is wrong with being left-wing
and am i the only one that things kerry looks like a camel that fell into a vat of instant-tanner and bush looks like a chimp?
Finch
Whats it to ya?
OOooo.... this debate is rather heated
I must say i share his viws and i would back any party that protects the enviorment. I am very angry atthis administration for trying to remove parts of the clean water act that protect our wetlands. If he would have had it his way 75% of the wetlands currenty under its protection would loose it. Thats a very vast chunk of our wetlands.
And im also angry that this administration has weakened the Endangerd Species Act.
[b said:
I must say i share his viws and i would back any party that protects the enviorment. I am very angry atthis administration for trying to remove parts of the clean water act that protect our wetlands. If he would have had it his way 75% of the wetlands currenty under its protection would loose it. Thats a very vast chunk of our wetlands.
And im also angry that this administration has weakened the Endangerd Species Act.
Finch
Whats it to ya?
JLAP, I like you dont belive in everything Bush has to offer. I do not agree with him on his belifs of gay marriage or abortion. But I cannot for the life of me see where you can say that because of Bush innocent people have died. Because of Bush innocent people have been saved. If you referring to 'innocent people' as to the civilians in Iraq then you must have forgot how many civilians Saddam killed that dont have to be afraid of him now. If you are referring to the civilians that are getting killed in the car bombs and the like then I guess you forgot about our people getting killed in 9/11 we are there so we dont get hit on our soil again. And if, just if you are refferring to 'innocent people' as our soldiers then you really should talk to a few of them. I have put in a year in Iraq my brother is currently there. There is NO soldier in Iraq that did not know that by there signing up they would have a very large chance that they would be there. A soldier knows the risks but does it so that you can legally have your opinions of Michael Moore. Speaking of Bush and our soldiers they way he does in war time in my mind is border line treason. Like I said I dont like all of Bush's ideals but I like the fact that he does not change his mind even if his decision is an unpopular one.
Clint
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Major props to you, Wolf9, for serving the country in Iraq. Despite my vehement opposition to the war, I have nothing but respect for servicemen, as they don't make policy. And I think that our soldiers are second to none in their ability, effort, and effectiveness. We need more people like you.
However, and this is not related to my view on our soldiers, our POLICY has resulted in something like 10,000 civilian (not insurgent) deaths in Iraq. That is far more than in 9/11, and further, I will point out that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, so body count comparisons are moot.
Saddam was a brutal and ugly man, but it's highly doubtful that, under UN sanctions, no fly zones, and inspectors, he would have killed 10,000 civilians in the last few years.
For many of us, this war is clearly a war of choice, and not necessity. It was a pre-emptive attack on a country that had no ability to defend itself, much less attack others. That's why we view those civilian deaths as unnecessary.
In any case, this is a policy disagreement, and it shouldn't take away from respect for our fighting forces, and the supreme sacrifices they make on our behalf.
Capslock
However, and this is not related to my view on our soldiers, our POLICY has resulted in something like 10,000 civilian (not insurgent) deaths in Iraq. That is far more than in 9/11, and further, I will point out that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, so body count comparisons are moot.
Saddam was a brutal and ugly man, but it's highly doubtful that, under UN sanctions, no fly zones, and inspectors, he would have killed 10,000 civilians in the last few years.
For many of us, this war is clearly a war of choice, and not necessity. It was a pre-emptive attack on a country that had no ability to defend itself, much less attack others. That's why we view those civilian deaths as unnecessary.
In any case, this is a policy disagreement, and it shouldn't take away from respect for our fighting forces, and the supreme sacrifices they make on our behalf.
Capslock
So what if bush doesn't change his mind even if he did change his mind every so often, wouldn't make a difference with his intelligence level. It seems like the only thing this guy thinks about is war. I think kerry will manage this whole "war thing" the way it should be managed. In what way? i don't know, but better than bush has done so far. I think that the fact that the terrorist attacks happened while bush was in office, gave him the advantage. No matter who was president at the time, any president would of tried to handled the situation as best they could. Bush is too much about the war, and not about anything else. Is that all everyone is thinking about? The war? Because thats what it seems.. i'm tired of hearing about it.. and tired of Bush being president. Maybe kerry will do something with the title of president other than handle a war.[b said:
i agree totally with finch, and couldn't have said it better myself. Kerry has the right to change his mind about the same topic, if different information is provided. I know i'd like it if bush, as a president, would do the same if something different is presented upon him. But because bush has a one track mind, thats always set on war, we won't see that happen.
[b said:
I couldn't agree more. Who cares if one was stuttering, staring blankly, having to think before he speaks. What I care about is what they will do or have done for the country. The election is just a popularity contest anyway.
[b said:
What's Bush's plan? I think he did a very poor job of explaining his plan. All I heard him say was that he was going to keep doing what he's been doing. Which is not working. He's not fighting terrorist. Just like Kerry said last night, "One of Bush's adviser said, Invading Iraq after 9/11 is like Roosevelt invading Mexico after Pearl Harbor." Almost all of Al-Quida was contained in Tora Bora. Bush let them escape and now they are in over 60 countries. Saddam was contained in Iraq, he had no way of getting materials of making nuclear or bio weapons. When Bush invaded 30 countries were more capable of building weapons than Saddam. Now while Bush was fighting Iraq, Iran and N. Korea have developed nuclear weapons. Those are the facts, so do you really feel safer now than you did before the invasion of Iraq? I don't. All Bush did was repeat the same misleading "phrases" that are in his campaign commercials.
[b said:
Kerry did not "flip flop". That shows that you only listen to what you wanted to hear. If you had listened you would have heard Kerry say that He voted for the use of force if all other means failed. Bush invaded without ever trying any other means. He said Bush is wrong for invading as a first option. He said he was wrong for invading, without having a plan for a solution. I have never seen any evidence of Kerry flip flopping. The only evidence the Republicans have is short sound bytes taken out of context. That reminds me of what A. Einstein said about how you can make anybody say what you want with editing. I think if Bush would flip flopped he would finally do something intelligent. How can you forget about the biggest flip flopper of our time " Read my lips, no new taxes"
Another famous Einstein quote is "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
einstein was smart!
and speaking of not feeling safer, Bush has given terrorists more excuses to be terrorists. He has supposedly taken a bunch of top terrorist officials (or whatever you call them) but there are plenty more to take their place. Now terrorism is increasing...
sort of like the violence against violence thing isn't it?
and speaking of not feeling safer, Bush has given terrorists more excuses to be terrorists. He has supposedly taken a bunch of top terrorist officials (or whatever you call them) but there are plenty more to take their place. Now terrorism is increasing...
sort of like the violence against violence thing isn't it?
Clint
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<<So what if bush doesn't change his mind even if he did change his mind every so often, wouldn't make a difference with his intelligence level. It seems like the only thing this guy thinks about is war. I think kerry will manage this whole "war thing" the way it should be managed. In what way? i don't know, but better than bush has done so far. I think that the fact that the terrorist attacks happened while bush was in office, gave him the advantage. No matter who was president at the time, any president would of tried to handled the situation as best they could. Bush is too much about the war, and not about anything else. Is that all everyone is thinking about? The war? Because thats what it seems.. i'm tired of hearing about it.. and tired of Bush being president. Maybe kerry will do something with the title of president other than handle a war. >>
Amatuer I guess it is a good thing that you are to young to vote. You may not like Bush and that is fine but I find it difficult to become elected president if you are unintelligent, (even if the guy you were running agaisnt was Gore!). The reason that the war is all you hear about is because this country IS AT WAR!! It is the most important thing at this particular time.
Amatuer I guess it is a good thing that you are to young to vote. You may not like Bush and that is fine but I find it difficult to become elected president if you are unintelligent, (even if the guy you were running agaisnt was Gore!). The reason that the war is all you hear about is because this country IS AT WAR!! It is the most important thing at this particular time.
